"Old Knives"

Got a TL-29 today that used to belong to my father-in-law. It's marked Klein Tools and Chicago. I don't think it's carbon steel, but it does have some rust pitting on the blade. I have a couple of questions, Is there a way to date them, and is the screwdriver locking blade supposed to be sharp on the edge?

Thanks
 
Question for Charlie Noyes
Hi Charlie
I picked this old Robeson up in a junk shop beause the scales were so beautiful. The knife is a total wreck, has steel bolsters and a pattern number 62655 I believe and marked Robeson suredge Rochester. My question is, have you seen this jigging pattern before? It looks very much like Deer tracks. I haven't seen it before.
Sorry for the bad pictures but I think they are clear enough to see the jigging pattern.
Thanks and best regards

Robin

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navihawk said:
Great looking Robeson. I wouldn't change a thing. Can you give us a shot with the blades open?
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I'll take a shot of whats left of the blades tomorrow in day light. The secondary was a pen blade I think but is looking more like punch at this point. The master is a clip and quite pitted. It snaps like a Bear trap though. It looks like someone started to drill out the pins at some point. The scales on the other hand are without cracks or chips. It also looks like nickel pins in the steel bolsters. I just noticed that the marks are different on the secondary. Robeson is arched over USA over cutlery. I'll try a shot tonight and will edit it into this post.

Regards

Robin

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Old Remington, marked R 7848 with the UMC symbol on both blades...one blade was snapped and modified into a little scalpel but its difficult to get that one open. Anyone know the age roughly? and are the scales delrin or bone? I got it on the bay, the pics were really bad and he knew nothing about it so pretty much bought it sight unseen. Usable but very worn out.
 
Robert.B said:
Old Remington, marked R 7848 with the UMC symbol on both blades...one blade was snapped and modified into a little scalpel but its difficult to get that one open. Anyone know the age roughly? and are the scales delrin or bone? I got it on the bay, the pics were really bad and he knew nothing about it so pretty much bought it sight unseen. Usable but very worn out.
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The scales won't be delrin - that material came along about 30 years later than this knife was made - and I don't think they're bone (don't think Remington ever did black bone). They look like one of the molded black celluloids they made back then, called by all sorts of names, some molded to look like bone, some like stag (some of these were real works of art) -- all the extra material they had to load the celluloid with to make it opaque and black also seemed to stabilize the celluloid very well.
 
zerogee said:
The scales won't be delrin - that material came along about 30 years later than this knife was made - and I don't think they're bone (don't think Remington ever did black bone). They look like one of the molded black celluloids they made back then, called by all sorts of names, some molded to look like bone, some like stag (some of these were real works of art) -- all the extra material they had to load the celluloid with to make it opaque and black also seemed to stabilize the celluloid very well.
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Thanks for that post, I didn't think they would be bone and figured a synthetic just because of how its worn...no idea of an age with it, but the blade has taken a mean edge and its no collector piece so might as well use it.
 
The first 3 numbers are the Remington pattern number. The last number indicates the handle material that was used. If memory serves, 8 was used for cocobolo handles, so you may have an after-the-fact job. The pattern number also doesn't come to mind. I can take a glance at my remington book tomorrow. The R676_ was their 3 blade congress I think. Maybe post on Levine's forum. Other possibility is that someone took some remington blades and stuck them on your congress.
 
I found an R7843 that looks to be this same pattern, except with bone - 3in closed, congress pen, rattail steel bolsters and lining.

Though from what I can see, typically the patterns with what they called "celluloid stag" ended in 3 (the old catalogs called jigged bone "stag") - same as bone (presumably they didn't make a bone version of those patterns) - this from their 1930 catalog. As far as I've ever seen, Remington never made any congress with cocobolo (or any other wood) scales -- so they may have appropriated the 8 if they had both real bone "stag" and "celluloid stag" versions of a pattern.
 
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zerogee said:
I found an R7843 that looks to be this same pattern, except with bone - 3in closed, congress pen, rattail steel bolsters and lining.
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That would be correct because the 3 is the Remington number identification for bone
 
So the blades and frame fit. Are you sure it's just not very well worn/oiled wood that might possibly have been jigged. Since it's a user and beat up, you could take a knife and scrape a discrete part of the scale to uncover what material it actually is. Might be an old homemade jig job and over the years with hand oil, dirt, wear...you get this end product. I say that because Remington didn't jig any of their wood handles (at least not that I'm aware of)
 
It definitely isn't wood, under the loupe it is lacking any form of grain and I made a small scratch on the side of the scale and it was the same.

EDIT: posted over in Levine's forum, should shed some light on it.

EDIT 2:
rprocter said:
Stewart & Ritchie show a 7843 "Congress Pen", 3", sheepsfoot & pen, handle bone. Has grooved bolsters and 3 handle pins, all same as yours.
roland
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Pipeman;
The front scale is very similar to knives that I have, but I don't think I've ever seen anything like that back scale.
Very pretty handles. Looks like deer tracks, I agree, or rabbits through snow.
Different.
 
CNoyes said:
Pipeman;
The front scale is very similar to knives that I have, but I don't think I've ever seen anything like that back scale.
Very pretty handles. Looks like deer tracks, I agree, or rabbits through snow.
Different.
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Thanks Charlie, I looked through your posts and didn't see anything with that defined Deer track look. I have never seen anything like it, wish the blades were in the same shape the scales are. Was Robeson still hand jigging at the time this knife was made or was it just random luck that the jigging machine turned out?

Best regards

Robin
 
Three rescued from the antique shop:

Top: Remington
Center: Keen-Kutter
Bottom: No markings

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Pipeman, I was wondering if that particular piece of bone did not make the required number of passes through the jigging machine?
 
Thanks Charlie, that is an interesting thought. It's a shame they didn't notice how beautiful the jigging looked. Thanks very much for your input.

Best regards

Robin
 
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