"Old Knives"

Couple of group photos of Surveyors
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Very nice Jake! I didn't know that M&G used a covered backspring... Gotta
love this place, Learn something new almost everyday. Thx Jake.

Jason
 
Super knives Jake. I have not heard the name Surveyor. Could you define the name a little more? What knives does it include and where does it originate?
 
Gevonovich said:
Super knives Jake. I have not heard the name Surveyor. Could you define the name a little more? What knives does it include and where does it originate?
Click to expand...

My question as well, including-- does a knife's having two springs for two blades at opposite ends move it out of the "moose" category, or does that have nothing to do with it?

~ P.
 
Jake,

I love the Surveyors.

Charles,

The Pearls and NYCs knock me out.

All you other Guys... you have made this thread an addiction.

Thanks for the Joy you provide almost every day.

Mike H.
 
Love those Surveyors! It's pretty obvious that the three-blade Maher & Grosh was made by Miller Bros. The two-blade immediately below it has enough similarities that it could have been made by Miller Bros, but without the screwed on handles.
 
Thank you for the compliments on the knives, guys. :)

Charles, That's a beauty and an interesting design--it has both a closed back and a center rivet. I suspect the cover was added for the elegance of its appearance rather than simplification of the construction since the lobster was a high end pattern.

BRL's comments about the springs on the Maher & Grosh: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-w-covered-backspring?p=10010080#post10010080

Gevonovich, According to Levine's Guide IV, "Surveyor" or "swell center canoe" is a handle shape. It was used on "fancy" cattle knives and cattle knife type jacks and double-end jacks. Other fancy cattle knife dies include the "balloon" and "eureka".

The surveyors in the photos are from Maher & Grosh and Robeson. I just got the Robeson. I've also seen surveyors from Valley Forge and Remington that are shorter and stockier. There are modern "railsplitters" from Queen that resemble the surveyors from Valley Forge and Remington.

I think Kerry Hampton previously posted an example from Valley Forge but I can't find it. Here's a link to one on the Bose website: http://boseknives.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=3931 One thing neat about that one is that it has a split backspring: http://boseknives.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=3942 A hybrid cattle knife and whittler. There were also hybrid stock knife and whittlers: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...NY-Knife-Co-Stock-Knife-Whittler-Stock-ittler

pertinux, a "moose" is one of the stockman type double-end jacks and a 2-blade "surveyor" is one of the cattle knife type double-end jacks.
 
Charles - Very interesting! I am used to seeing the birdseye pivot rivets, but those birdseye pins are new to me.
 
Charles, Cool group photo! The two bone handle knives have washers at the pivot pins but not at the center pins. Case and others made bolster-less stock knives with birdseye pins that look similar. I've previously read that the washers were used to strengthen the pin area on knives that lack bolsters. On the other knives the birdseye pins appear to be one piece. They look ornamental to me. The decoration(?) of the pins on #97 is somewhat simple compared 323 and 229. I wonder if these are what BRL calls bulls-eyes (see quote below)...I'm wondering because of their appearance. I haven't seen a detailed reference for the different types of pins. I found the quote after our prior exchange about the pins. I may have been looking for the black cat that BRL was talking about. I am still curious about how they were made.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/679795-Spun-handle-pins-vs-hammered-pins

bernard_levine said:
Other rivet variables include number, location, diameter, type of metal.
Also various types of burrs, bulls-eyes, birds-eyes, etc.

These variables don't necessarily correlate with age. They depend on pattern, size, handle material, age, maker, country of origin -- probably other things, too.

Then there are the various technical tricks for eliminating rivets, or for hiding them.

Joe, not long ago you asked me about a French couteau sans clous - literally a knife without nails, a fancy jack knife with the rivets set into the liners, and the handle covers covering them, so that none of the rivets are visible.

Schrade's Swinden bolsters, patented in 1961, do something similar. The pivot rivet is staked to the liners, with a raised tab onto which the bolster snaps. US Pat No 2977678.

*

When one's goal is to date old knives, it is tempting to over-interpret every clue, every little variation.

I have wasted much time in that coal cellar at midnight, looking for a black cat that was not there.

BRL...
Click to expand...
 
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Jake, thanks for the additional information. I like you think there are still some details to be found out, about these pins, birds or bulls. Part of the fun of collecting. Charles
 
Man, you stole that Robeson ebony handled surveyor off the 'Bay. It's looks nicer than the auction photos.

I saw a bone handled version of that pattern years ago at a knife show in Dalton, GA.

I was a bit confused by the seller's description of the pattern number. Does it really appear to start with an "L"?

Very nice knife.

Congratulations on that one.

Charlie Noyes
 
Charles (chuko), I'm always finding something new but usually it's just new to me. ;)

Charlie (CNoyes), I wouldn't call it stolen since the price has doubled since I bought my first surveyor. ;) I hope that it didn't miss a chance at being collected because I'm thinking of using it. It doesn't show up well in the scan but it does look like a letter L. Unfortunately, the Robeson didn't escape the buffing wheel (along with most of the other old knives on ebay) but I don't recognize any signs of further tampering. There was a similar ebony surveyor branded with a merchant name that closed shortly before the auction for the Robeson. It also had the same shield as the Robeson. I lost the link but I would like to compare the knife. Please send me a PM with a link if you know the auction... or if you have catalog examples of a Robeson surveyor. There was also a bone handled Miller Bros surveyor that just sold recently.

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You have only the second Robeson surveyor I've ever seen and I've never seen the pattern pictured in an old catalog or any knife price guide.

FYI, the bone handled version I saw was a salesman's sample, or at least, it had inked numbers on the back of the master, and the asking price was $750.00.

I was interested in that ebony handled knife. I would have liked to have had it, but I'm not buying knives right now.

In fact, I'd sale out if I could find a buyer.

Charlie Noyes
 
Charlie, Do you recall if the clip blade on the saleman's sample was the same shape. That's why I'd like to find the other auction as a reference. ...I wish I had bid on that one also... I remember thinking they looked the same but I got busy and I didn't pay close attention unfortunately.
 
That's the auction! Thank you, Charlie! I had wanted another look at the clip blade and I see it's not a match. The clip blade appears to be very similar to the examples from Maher & Grosh and Miller Bros. I don't know that the manufacturer of the M. Seller Co. surveyor was Robeson... as far as I can tell, it could be Miller Bros... but the Robeson may be fishy... the auction did have a red background. ;) I'll leave the photos up as a learner and keep an eye open. oO I'm confident about the two from Maher & Grosh.
 
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