"Old Knives"

No worries, Duncan. It would be ok if you were skeptical of this knife. In general, a bit of skepticism is necessary in knife collecting.

I'm happy with both knives.

The Challenge does have a pin crack on the mark side and some more scratches than I had hoped but there are spots of original finish peeking through the wear. I usually don't buy stories (they're usually more expensive than the knives themselves ;) ) but I have no reason not to believe the seller's story. It seems like a reasonable explanation. For a novice she did a very nice job with the description. I like that she said "I have not attempted to clean the knife because the patina speaks of its age."

My husband received this knife when his father died in 1984. It had belonged to either my husband's father or grandfather. I found it in my husband's keepsake box after he died last year at 87 years of age.. The knife had remained in the box until his death. He had never removed nor used the knife.

In my research, I learned,the knife has carbon steel blades, brown jigged bone handle, brass inner scales and pins. It has an unusual 3/4" rectangular bolster. Large blade has CHALLENGE Reg. U.S. Pat. O. Each blade tang is marked: Challenge Cutlery Corp. Bridgeport. The large blade is spear blade. I am not well informed on knives, but in my research, I have discovered that this knife has good "walk and talk", also referred to as snap. I have not attempted to clean the knife because the patina speaks of its age.

Length from tip of end bolster to tip of large blade is 5 6/8". Small blade is 2 2/8". The weight is 3.3 oz.
 
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Here are a few quick photos of the Valley Forge Wharncliffe Jack. I don't believe the knife has been cleaned....that may make some knife polishing fans start to twitch. ;) It has been briefly wiped with a rag damp with mineral oil. It has some spots that I suspect are due to improper storage over the years. I see no evidence that the knife has been carried or used. According to Goins' Encyclopedia the VF circle logo is from 1916-1950. I've seen similar knives in a 1920s catalog but it will take some digging to find an exact match.

Any info, objections, counter arguments, etc are welcome.

A lot of knives in this condition and in much much much worse condition are polished/buffed and described as "cleaned to mint" or "mint". I think both descriptions are inaccurate. There's original and then there's "cleaned". There are mint knives out there but there are many more knives that are inaccurately described as mint.









Here's a nice Remington that I picked up recently. The folks that like shiny knives will like this one. The shine is actually original but the knife is used and has scratches and a few speckles. The scratches didn't show up very well in the photos. I did wipe off some verdigris with a rag but other than that it has not been cleaned. A LOT of old Remington knives are polished/buffed. Some folks will polish/buff AROUND the blade etch :p so a preserved etch is not necessarily an indicator that the finish is original. There are also a lot of complete fake Remingtons... right up there with fake Case knives.



 
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I really like that VF Jake,and the condition is all important to me. I'll take what I can get,but I think we agree about cleaning.

Here's my Valley Forge:

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Thank you, Lyle. I'll take what I can get too! :)

The gettin' has been good for you! You have a wonderful collection of farmer's jacks.

I'm not sure if you remember but I first met you when on Exchange a few years ago. I was selling a repinned H Boker farmer's jack. At the time that I bought it, I didn't realize that it had been repinned so I paid a bit too much for it. And when I sold it on the Exchange, I listed it at a lower price and took a loss. But it was important to me to accurately represent the condition. It sold before you and I got to talking knives but I remember enjoying our conversation. That was the only farmer's jack that I've owned until your recent run of knives from GEC. That knife gets a lot of use btw.
 
I'll take what I can get too if you guys just stop buying for once and let this Kiwi have a go now and then 😄
 
Jake the VF is beauty the serpentine construction is very appealing and the blade are as new. Despite few cases I don't like old shiny knives and I am amazed by what is going on e-buy. Original used vintage knives are sold cheap while crappy forgeries and modified knives are sold on big bucks. Go figure.

Mike
 
I'll take what I can get too if you guys just stop buying for once and let this Kiwi have a go now and then 😄

The Kiwis are doing very well. :)

Jake the VF is beauty the serpentine construction is very appealing and the blade are as new. Despite few cases I don't like old shiny knives and I am amazed by what is going on e-buy. Original used vintage knives are sold cheap while crappy forgeries and modified knives are sold on big bucks. Go figure.

Mike

Thank you, Mike. There are some counterfeit knife buyers with very deep pockets.
 
Lyle- that VF is a stunner and it comes to no surprise that it's in your stable.

Jake - that VF looks absolutely unused- so those heat marks must have been from factory!

Speaking of shiny knives - we all love them when they are like Lyals beautiful example but an old knif shined up does not look good- only unless you got a basket case and cleaned it for use.
 
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Thanks guys,we enjoy each other's good fortune and blessings.

Jake If I remember that knife correctly it was more of a wharencliff,but I would have bought it, but was too late.

Those shiny old knives look like your grandma in a miniskirt.:eek:
 
Sorry I've got a bit behind with this thread, some excellent posts and fantastic knives :thumbup:
 
Thanks Jake, I know the seller does clean most of his knives, this particular one looks like it could have been lightly cleaned. The blades do have some pepper spots which leads me to believe they were not buffed much if at all, and the edges appear original. Perhaps I should have said it doesn't look like it has been used much. I thought it was interesting they crammed 3 blades on such a small frame, and with all the nail nicks on the same side.

What's your opinion on this one?...Ad plainly states original condition and refund if not completely satisfied..
I been eyeing it for several days now......
What everyones opinion on it?
Thanks for reply,JD

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Looks fantastic to me, JD! The bone is correct IMHO. Its been over buffed but the blades are full:thumbup::thumbup:
 
I've posted this before in either this thread or another here on the Traditional these were some different pictures I've found. Now that I've got a better camera, (thanks Mossyhorn) I'll take some better pics.

This was a knife I bought at one of the first estate sales I'd ever been too. The gentleman who'd passed away collected some knives and it was me and another guy bidding on the 30 or so knives that went up. It was a great first sale as the guy bidding against me was completely fair and if he saw I was interested he backed off and I did the same so we both would up with an equal share of the knives and we both got for the most part what we each wanted.

The one knife I missed, in fact we both missed was this little pearl Sleeveboard Lobster pattern that came with a little leather purse. It was part of a box lot that was filled stuff from a woman's vanity table. The bidding got past $12 and i let it go, (my wife was already mad that I had bought over a dozen knives and explaining why I needed one more wasn't goin' to help my case much. so I lost the lot.

Later that evening as we were gettin' ready to settle up I ran into the woman and i asked her if she'd be willin' to part with the knife and she immediately resonded by pullin' it from the box and asked me for $3 which I gladly handed over. she even found the leather purse that went with it. That was back in the 80s, I hung onto that knife not knowing or finding any other info about the knife except a name which was stamped into the blade.

Here's some pics, now at this point in the story I knew nothing other than the name in the blade JSZIRAKI.

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Part of what helped me date it was the little SAK style nickel silver tweezers or what I thought was a cocaine spoon which would have put the knife around the 1800s but that was just a educated guess by me which turned out to be completely wrong. Around the early 90s I was at a local show and I ran into a guy who had a table full of old knives all in great shape. During the conversation I had shown him the knife and he corrected me and gave me my first solid piece of evidence. What I thought was a coke spoon turned out to be an ear pick used to scoop out ear wax and debris from one's ears, long before the invention of the Q-tip this was the acceptable method, an ear pick used to scoop out the nasty stuff. :)

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It was most likely a manicure tool made for an upper crust Victorian woman. ;) but other than that info there was nothin' else for another 18 years. Now 18 or so years later the internet is in full bloom, social media put me in contact with more resources and people who had more knowledge than I had on the subject and a member here at BFC saw the name and hooked me up with links and history about the maker. ,(I love the internet ).

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Well after owning the knife that I bought for $3 around 30 or so years ago turns out that J (Josev) Sziraki was the intergral player if not the father of the central European Cutlery industry going back to the early to mid 18th century. This guy was a god, the Tony Bose of his day and to make things even better he was Hungarian, he was one of my people. :)

I'm still learning about this knife, here it is I've owned it for 30 years and i feel I'm barely scratchin' the surface. I got a big break whe a member here at BFC sent me a PM with a couple of relevant links, Thanks, I'll post your name when I go back and check my PMs to see who you were , thanks again.

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T.E., thanks, nice story, probably boring to most, but an interesting read to a knifer. I bet there is a large number of knives made in central/eastern Europe in the 1800's up to WW I that we never have heard of or seen. The occasional Nixdorf, Austria is about as far 'east' in Europe as i have seen in old knives.
Jake, re your Valley Forge: that is exactly the condition i prefer most in vintage knives. It obviously has not been buffed or altered in any way. The same knife stored under more optimal conditions and not having the areas of oxidation on the blades can be mistaken for a skillfully buffed knife. And a truly 'mint' knife is almost always double or triple the price of one like your VF which is untouched except for oxidation spots on blade.
To surmise: safest and best 'bang for your buck' is with knives in condition similar to your Valley Forge.
kj
 
What's your opinion on this one?...Ad plainly states original condition and refund if not completely satisfied..
I been eyeing it for several days now......
What everyones opinion on it?
Thanks for reply,JD

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That's awesome. I will take it if you don't buy it
 
What's your opinion on this one?...Ad plainly states original condition and refund if not completely satisfied..
I been eyeing it for several days now......
What everyones opinion on it?
Thanks for reply,JD

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Very nice Camillus easy opener. I've owned few over the years, good reliable knives that will last forever. This one seems heavily buffed. I personally wouldn't buy it because of that but it is matter of what you prefer.
Mike
 
I collected these circa WW II Camillus/Imperial 2 blade EO jacks a few years ago when they often sold for $20 on ebay. I agree it has been buffed, but depending on the price it might be worth buying. The majority of these EO Jacks have blade wear, often ++, and often are short, having been tipped. This one has full blades so it merits consideration.
Is there a chip on bone missing on back side between EO notch and edge of cap ?
kj
 
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