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"Old Knives"

Discussion in 'Traditional Folders and Fixed Blades' started by VCM3, Jan 21, 2008.

  1. Jack Black

    Jack Black Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 2, 2005
    The 1841 Sheffield Census records, living at Regent Street, Richard, aged 35, Robert, aged 60, Robert (Jnr) aged 25, Ruth, aged 35 (wife of Richard), Amelia, aged 6 (daughter of Richard and Ruth)), Ellen, aged 5 months (daughter of Richard and Ruth), Hannah, aged 60 (wife of Robert), Henry, aged 10, and Mary, aged 9 (daughter of Richard and Ruth).
  2. waynorth

    waynorth Dealer / Materials Provider Dealer / Materials Provider

    Nov 19, 2005
    Nice big family!! Great data find, Jack. Nice story developing behind a special little knife!
  3. Jack Black

    Jack Black Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 2, 2005
    Thanks Charlie, I know the streets where their various works, and the streets where they lived, very well. They're all very close to where I lived, when I lived in Sheffield. That was a nice gift my friend, certainly Golden Age :) :thumbsup:
  4. veitsi_poika

    veitsi_poika Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 25, 2016
    Looks like you have the real deal there Mike, the 1877 matches up with the information I found. John M Ziriax was first listed as a Machinist in Albany, NY in 1861. In 1874 he was listed as a Machinist / Cutler / Truss Maker and from 1875 to his death in 1889 he was listed under the "Cutlers and Surgical Instruments". I really do not think he was a mass producer of knives by any means so your knife is likely extremely rare. It seems like he was just a guy that was a machinist / metal worker during the day and a knife maker on the side. The interesting thing that I found is that his son, Louis Ziriax, was born in Germany around 1860 so I believe John brought his family to the U.S. in the early 1860's from Germany which may explain his talent for knife making. Louis took over the business likely after his father's death in 1889 as he was listed as a cutler in the Albany, NY directory in 1896. One cool tidbit I found was that Louis actually obtained a patent for a new type of gasoline engine in 1897, the image I found is shown below. I noticed in 1900 & 1901, Louis' name was followed by "Engineer" in the Albany directory however in 1903 his name was followed by "Machinist". Louis died in a car crash in 1905 at the age of 44 or 45.

    I'm curious if John M or J.M. Ziriax was a worker at one of the knife makers in Germany or if he had his own business there but my access to German information is limited. I was wondering if someone that has German knife information could take a look and see if they notice the name Ziriax.


    - Kevin
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  5. r8shell

    r8shell Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Jan 16, 2010
    A nice gift, indeed. Your input about its history is a gift as well. :)
    Jack Black likes this.
  6. galvanic1882

    galvanic1882 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 13, 2007
    Wow VP thanks for finding all that out!! I wonder if he was the maker of it?
  7. veitsi_poika

    veitsi_poika Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 25, 2016
    I found other knives where people mentioned JM Ziriax was stamped on the blade and yours probably had that full JM Ziriax stamp at one point. Pics of one I found online are below. The address that was listed in the directory was 385 S Pearl St in Albany and that was listed as his home and there was no business address ever listed. Based on that I'm assuming he did not have an actual store / shop to sell knives so I doubt he was selling SFO knives. Sounds to me like he just worked out of a machine shop in his building. I'll do a little more searching to see if I can out more about his business / products.

    vintage-tool-cobblers-tool-m-ziriax_1_263152525df7f1525ff65356f77230d8.jpg vintage-tool-cobblers-tool-m-ziriax_1_263152525df7f1525ff65356f77230d8-1.jpg vintage-tool-cobblers-tool-m-ziriax_1_263152525df7f1525ff65356f77230d8-2.jpg

    - Kevin

    Edited: Added some info
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
    Travman, Duckdog, ea42 and 3 others like this.
  8. veitsi_poika

    veitsi_poika Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 25, 2016
    Here's a neat little Henckel's pocket treasure I couldn't resist buying when I was trolling on The Bay the other night...


    - Kevin
  9. North Shore

    North Shore Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 28, 2016
    Third Nor'eastern in Massachusetts in 10 days... McIntosh Heather Cleveland Jack in old ebony. Thistle reverse tang stamp, mercury dime found metal detecting. 2018-03-13 10.16.54.jpg
    2018-03-13 10.16.31.jpg
    Fodderwing, Travman, Duckdog and 13 others like this.
  10. CNoyes

    CNoyes Gold Member Gold Member

    May 30, 2009
    E374C6FB-FE27-40D5-80C7-8B80902AB8CF.jpeg A7D4EADA-15B3-4079-A610-859B6E33F64E.jpeg BC842969-FD34-4A7F-B8B7-F8B5826240C5.jpeg F4E33164-EC6D-4BB2-993A-CFEFF749D4E6.jpeg 57B0D46F-EBFB-4279-86D1-EC3476A917DC.jpeg DD0CA24A-3B1E-4E49-8B4E-02BE751030A6.jpeg You guys have posted some super knives and great information here lately.

    I got this big 4 1/4” Terrier 037622 cigar jack off Ebay on the 1st of March. It’s been in my pocket since I received it.

    Killer snap in both directions on both blades with half stops on each. About ten percent wear on the master, none on the pen.

    Great bone front and back.

    Knife dates 1910 to 1916.

    One of Robeson’s best.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
    Duckdog, chuko, Augie and 10 others like this.
  11. ea42

    ea42 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 1, 2006
    Charlie that knife is in amazing condition, I love the terrier stamp!

    Northshore and Kevin those are great examples, never heard of McIntosh Knives before.

  12. Campbellclanman

    Campbellclanman Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Mar 10, 2007
    Agreed Eric - nice Knives guys.

    Herder- What a nice Tear Drop Ebony Jack! Awesome.

    Charlie N, once again a nice Terrier- the Bone looks slightly different colour wise/ Jig Wise than the ( fantastic usual) Bone from Robesons era? Gorgeous Knife!
  13. CNoyes

    CNoyes Gold Member Gold Member

    May 30, 2009
    Duncan, the photos were made in poor light, but the handles are lighter than on most older Robeson knives. I think it might be a bit sun bleached, but it's pretty much the same on both sides.
  14. Campbellclanman

    Campbellclanman Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Mar 10, 2007
    Thank you Charlie
    Hey don’t get me wrong- Stunning Knife my friend- I’m trying to study Bone- the Jig Work and hoping to one day crack the secret of jig work - especially some reference one the “ how to’s “ of spotting hand Jigging etc.
    My comment on the Bone was purely in that basis of comparison- a Beautiful Knife and as you have taught us before - stamped with only a very short time of manufacture.
    I hope to one day stumble across such a Knife!
  15. ea42

    ea42 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 1, 2006
    Say folks, I didn't realize there were a couple of questions regarding that Ulster sleeveboard;

    Kevin, closed length is 3 5/8"

    Yes that is correct. Here's one more shot from the top:

    Ulster sleeveboard whittler 7.jpg

    And here's a nice little Ellenville Knife Co. quill knife. They were the precursors to Ulster Knife. Started by some townsfolk and a bunch of cutlers and master knife makers from Naugatuck, Conn, they functioned under that name from 1871 to 1875. The name was changed to Ulster Knife Co in 1875, then in 1876 Dwight Divine took over ownership and continued business until 1941, when his son sold to Imperial Schrade.

    Ellenville Knife Co quill knife.jpg

  16. veitsi_poika

    veitsi_poika Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 25, 2016
    This one isn't all that old but it looks like it's from around 1965... very minty with "genuine Cabone handles" :)


    Found some ads in the 1965 Camillus catalog where the etch says "PAT APPL'D" like mine.


    - Kevin
    Travman, Duckdog, redsparrow and 7 others like this.
  17. black mamba

    black mamba Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 21, 2009
    That's a beauty, Kevin, I'm envious!
    veitsi_poika likes this.
  18. Holdiedad

    Holdiedad Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 18, 2018
    I'm a newbie to knife collecting other than case knives my grandpa gave me 2-3 a year and I always would save my money until we went to co-op or hardware store and buy another one never thinking about value. I'm 47 and did that close to 30 years. In 2005 a good friends father in law passed and he had owned a hardware store for many years starting in the mid 60's and he was a case dealer and he had what I guess you would call sample cases of each knife available that year or maybe just the new ones cause most had 20-30 knives in them with the boxes by that time I had given it all to my son who was 5 even though he couldn't get them and play with them we would spend hours looking and unboxing the knives until he could about name every style so he started collecting for value and trading and now he's over 500 case knives from the 60's to 2017 I think he has every fixed blade they made from 1960 till 2000. Now he and I both have caught the custom knife bug we are so new we have to ask people we know for help on what to buy he really loves homemade as do I that is why I joined today I have read for weeks but thought I'd jumb in feet first and get to know people and try start understanding the new knife scene.
  19. Old Engineer

    Old Engineer Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 30, 2014
    Welcome to the Forums Sir !!!! It is good to have you with us . Pull up a seat on the Porch and enjoy yourself .
    I do not think of this place as a new knife scene but a scene where there are Traditionals liked and shown , both new and old .

  20. veitsi_poika

    veitsi_poika Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 25, 2016
    Black Friday... Old Knives edition :D Schrade Walden 242 jack


    - Kevin
    Cutfinger, Duckdog, chuko and 6 others like this.

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