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"Old Knives"

Good discussion about the German knives everybody, I was behind a few pages and just got caught up. For most of my life I was just a casual user of whatever Schrade, Imperial or Buck brand knife I had available. Never paid much attention otherwise. But like many people that just popped into BladeForums for some info on a knife, my curiosity was piqued. I quickly became interested in the "big picture" history of knives so I went from "no knowledge" of knives to understanding the "class system" of knife suppliers like A Field & Co in England and suppliers like Kastor from Germany. Without these two influences we would not have Miller Bros, Russell, New York Knife Co, Camillus, Walden Knife Co, Ulster, Schrade, Cattaraugus, etc. Learning about the development of the United States Cutlery Company in 1892 which pitted Miller, Walden, NYKC and Ulster using the McKinley Tariffs against the German and English suppliers which was the beginning of the end for the importers. Once I took all of this information in, I felt obligated to sample knives from all three regions and I have not been disppointed by any. As has been said by Herder, all have their strong points and drawbacks but I appreciate the history and craftsmanship beyond words. After reading Mike's (galvanic) comments about German knives I couldn't help but chuckle because one of the main guys to help JBF Champlin (Cattaraugus) was his friend named George Korn, who spent much of his time in Germany and England finding manufacturers of quality knives for JBF to sell here in America. A really great article below that encompasses much of the history I mentioned. It's all fascinating to me and this thread is a great historical record of knives from all over the world :D

http://www.jbfchamplin.com/?page_id=12

This excerpt from the website is especially interesting if you don't read the whole thing:

It’s ironic to look back now, and see how dramatically that change in tariff affected everyone involved in the world of cutlery production. Both in Europe and the US. In the long run it provided much needed opportunity for Americans like JBF Champlin who created his own manufacturing facility about 1890, but it had negative effects on those working overseas. As the demand for European products declined many skilled cutlery workers from England and Germany picked up their families and moved across the Atlantic looking for work and opportunity in the US.

The tariff legislation significantly affected Korn’s work as an importer. For many years he had been a buyer of German goods for prosperous US jobbing firms like JBF Champlin and others. It wasn’t long before Champlin and similar companies were producing their own lines of high quality goods, and were no longer in need of imported products from Europe.
 
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veitsi_poika said:
I have a feeling the Klaas family was the maker of Garland Knives and Kastor used them as one of their many suppliers. The XLNT logo was used by several cutlers around Germany so I am not sure it is specific to Kastor.

View attachment 1172144

Here is a post I made a while back.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/old-knives.527126/page-790#post-18517709

Below is from the Kastor List of brands... it shows Garland on the list but shows the parent company as "Max Klaas" and the Kastor related column says "suspect". I think that it is why I came to the conclusion previously that they are not an "owned" brand of Kastor's.

View attachment 1172143
Click to expand...


Thank you for the information Kevin, much appreciated, great looking Remington also:thumbsup:

Picked up a Remington 3 3/4" R6163 half Congress last week, nice condition although cleaned, good condition large vintage Congress knives seem to be hard to find and I add nice ones to the collection when ever I have the opportunity.


IMG_0543.jpg IMG_0545.jpg IMG_0548.jpg IMG_0551.jpg
 
veitsi_poika said:
Good discussion about the German knives everybody, I was behind a few pages and just got caught up. For most of my life I was just a casual user of whatever Schrade, Imperial or Buck brand knife I had available. Never paid much attention otherwise. But like many people that just popped into BladeForums for some info on a knife, my curiosity was piqued. I quickly became interested in the "big picture" history of knives so I went from "no knowledge" of knives to understanding the "class system" of knife suppliers like A Field & Co in England and suppliers like Kastor from Germany. Without these two influences we would not have Miller Bros, Russell, New York Knife Co, Camillus, Walden Knife Co, Ulster, Schrade, Cattaraugus, etc. Learning about the development of the United States Cutlery Company in 1892 which pitted Miller, Walden, NYKC and Ulster using the McKinley Tariffs against the German and English suppliers which was the beginning of the end for the importers. Once I took all of this information in, I felt obligated to sample knives from all three regions and I have not been disppointed by any. As has been said by Herder, all have their strong points and drawbacks but I appreciate the history and craftsmanship beyond words. After reading Mike's (galvanic) comments about German knives I couldn't help but chuckle because one of the main guys to help JBF Champlin (Cattaraugus) was his friend named George Korn, who spent much of his time in Germany and England finding manufacturers of quality knives for JBF to sell here in America. A really great article below that encompasses much of the history I mentioned. It's all fascinating to me and this thread is a great historical record of knives from all over the world :D

http://www.jbfchamplin.com/?page_id=12

This excerpt from the website is especially interesting if you don't read the whole thing:

It’s ironic to look back now, and see how dramatically that change in tariff affected everyone involved in the world of cutlery production. Both in Europe and the US. In the long run it provided much needed opportunity for Americans like JBF Champlin who created his own manufacturing facility about 1890, but it had negative effects on those working overseas. As the demand for European products declined many skilled cutlery workers from England and Germany picked up their families and moved across the Atlantic looking for work and opportunity in the US.

The tariff legislation significantly affected Korn’s work as an importer. For many years he had been a buyer of German goods for prosperous US jobbing firms like JBF Champlin and others. It wasn’t long before Champlin and similar companies were producing their own lines of high quality goods, and were no longer in need of imported products from Europe.
Click to expand...
You've got it in a nutshell, Kevin!! Well done post!!:thumbsup:
 
Augie said:
Thank you for the information Kevin, much appreciated, great looking Remington also:thumbsup:

Picked up a Remington 3 3/4" R6163 half Congress last week, nice condition although cleaned, good condition large vintage Congress knives seem to be hard to find and I add nice ones to the collection when ever I have the opportunity.


View attachment 1172267 View attachment 1172268 View attachment 1172269 View attachment 1172270
Click to expand...
Hmmm... looks a lot like my H-S-B, possible manufacturer? I think that's the conclusion we came to previously...

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/old-knives.527126/page-802#post-18594054


hsbc-1a-jpg.1030562


of3-jpg.1121636
 
Fantastic last few pages all!!!
waynorth, As you said, non-barlow Russell models are certainly not common, and your two beautiful harness jack models are a treat to see.
The Chunk91, Nice group of Schrade models, and I love the wording of "Professional Stockman" on that mint Craftsman model.
black mamba and waynorth, wonderful groups of Schrade stockman knives!!!
SteveC, nice Camillus radio Jack.
North Shore, fine old Case pruner.
waynorth, Beautiful lockback Harrington, a classic English Jack style.
tongueriver, Very neat and interesting Lamplough jack, and nice follow up Remington's as well.
Augie, Great stag an a great old XLNT Barlow.
V.P., Wonderful old Remington with a neat saber/spear main blade.
fodderwing, Another unique and uncommon Lamplough model, very nice.
V.P., A really good write up on some history and thoughts surrounding German cutlery.
It is fascinating to read through old documents talking about the struggles and confrontations throughout the world of cutlery.

Enclosed is an old pre-WWII Boker Cattle knife which was made in the United States in the Valley Forge facility that Boker took over in 1899.
Boker had one of the most complex world-wide cutlery relationships with knives being produced both in Germany and the United States since the turn of the twentieth century.

BF Boker Cattleman Knife .jpg
 
herder said:
Enclosed is an old pre-WWII Boker Cattle knife which was made in the United States in the Valley Forge facility that Boker took over in 1899.
Boker had one of the most complex world-wide cutlery relationships with knives being produced both in Germany and the United States since the turn of the twentieth century.

bf-boker-cattleman-knife-jpg.1172881
Click to expand...
Fantastic Boker Cattle Knife.
Here's a less fancy one made much later in Solingen. I see a lot of similarities in the shapes of the spey and punch.
jUDBDli.jpg
MNrCLVj.jpg

I don't know a whole lot about German made knives, but I know what I like. ;)
 
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Fancy that, German made knives still getting some attention. And I found this Kissing Cranes stag whittler today:):thumbsup: Its been cleaned at some point, but I just loved the stag, and its a big one at 4-1/2 inches closed. I hope its old enough for this thread, I'm not familiar with dating Kissing Cranes,though it looks to be old enough :thumbsup:
 
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Great Knives - AND posts !!


Herder - Stunning Cattle Knife! :eek: The Quality of that Knife is something else! Herder my friend can I as a favour? Can we please see the other side of that a Punch? I would like to do a comparison to a couple of my early HJ’s. also would you mind if I took a copy of the knife and Punch for record?
Beautiful Bone also on a fantastic Knife!

R8shell that’s a great old Cattle Knife! Got a bit of a Serpentine Frame going on there!

Speaking of Cattle Knives I was lucky enough to receive a package that has a couple of very nice Cattle Knives from Camillus. Two very nice Stay Sharp examples that are right up there with any quality made! One of these was a knife that Camillus themselves had in their display.

Hillbilly matey - Whew! Stag doesn’t get better than that! You can bet that that knife belongs in here! :) :thumbsup:

Wow Cal - oh to be There if you ever displayed your collection! Yet another beauty!

It’s strange that the very early Bokers don’t get much of a mention when it comes to their stunning Bone. There’s Andy I doubt about the supreme quality of the knife - and their Bone is incredible!
Nice Whittler too my friend!
 
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