one self defense folder

The entire "self defense with a knife concept" has been a lot of bla bla for years. It takes training in bare hands combatives to learn what not to do - much of which is to approach the situation with all legal requirements satisfied for a lethal response.

Getting a knife to a friend's throat before they can blink smacks of really juvenile thought and irresponsibility, much less the legitimate complaint of assault with a live blade in an unjustified situation. How many gun owners do the same with a loaded firearm - cocked and safety off, just to impress their buddies with their speed?

It's the behavior pattern of someone who wants to bully and intimidate. Do not do this.

Of the knives listed, the Sebenza - if it has a drop point - would be the best for EDC, simply because tanto points are not as good in daily cutting. Many are chisel ground, to boot, which takes getting used to the definite bias to not cut straight until you learn to compensate.

At the risk of repeating myself again, the knives in question, especially the Strider and Sebenza, are so different in execution that a comparison is apples and oranges. The only thing alike is the blade steel and titanium framelock. Everything else is geared to completely different kinds of use - other than separating the owner from a lot of cash.
 
Smash05 said:
Why pre tell?
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Just a contrary opinion, the axis is incredibly well-suited to self-defense. There's a theoretical concern about the axis lock getting unlocked in use. The problem is, it doesn't seem to happen in reality. Meanwhile, some people who don't like the axis recommend a liner lock, which theoretically has no problems, but in practice is by far the most likely to have reliability issues. My strong recommendation is not to shy away from the axis!
 
i'm in the "it's the user, not the tool" camp.

i like the Endura w/ Wave. inexpensive, well made, great opening system, strong lock.

as an edc, use and abuse it. for SD, it's quick into action and you won't miss it when it's taken as evidence.

re: knife for SD: using a knife is just like using a gun. both are lethal force and you should be aware of the applicable laws regarding justifiable use of deadly force in your jurisdiction. the general rule of thumb being "would a reasonable person, in the same situation, believe that lethal force was necessary?".
 
There was a time (in the '90s especially) and today when many experts claim that a lockback is not suitable for SD but a linerlock is. While I won't say one way or another, it's a fact that almost certainly more stabbing incidences have involved lockbacks than knives with other mechanisms. Now, most of these indicences may not have been actual SD; many were murders, but I am aware of at least a few concerning lockbacks in SD. The knives apparently worked flawlessly and all-too lethally (won't mention the brands/models). So apparently the insistence by some experts that a lockback will just close up on your hand doesn't always ring true.

Some others state that a failing lockback will fail "catastrophically", but that a liner would fail by freezing open. That's not always true, either. I've had linerlocks fail by accidentally closing with light pressure to blade spine, and heard of them closing during cutting use. (not necessarily twisting, though that can cause it as well). Sometimes the liner simply slips off the mating surface. That also sound pretty "catastrophic".

The problem with a knife carried ONLY for SD is that if used, it will become evidence. If it's concluded that it was being carried only as a weapon, you may be in deeper trouble than your attacker(s). You will likely go to prison,
where there may await many more self-defensive opportunities.
Jim
 
So-Lo said:
The one on top :D.......................................................;)

yosopen.jpg
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How much is it to purchase one of those Wave-modified Yojimbos?
 
tirod3 said:
The entire "self defense with a knife concept" has been a lot of bla bla for years. It takes training in bare hands combatives to learn what not to do—much of which is to approach the situation with all legal requirements satisfied for a lethal response.
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While this is true of people with considerable street or fighting experience, a knife can be used successfully by people who have only rudimentary experience. Given the enormous damage a knife can do, even a punk on the street is apt to back down unless you give him no way out, or challenge his manhood in some way. The risk of a lucky slash is simply too great and unless you're waving a knife around like some sort of idiot, many criminals would be likely to look for easier prey.

I may get a lot of of guff for this, but a knife's size also can have an effect. Even a 3-inch blade can be a dangerous weapon, a 4-inch, 5-inch, and 6-inch blade can have a correspondingly greater effect. Someone weilding a 6-inch Cold Steel Vequero Grande is likely going to have an "edge" over someone with a smaller blade. Even if pitted against someone who is similarly armed, again, the risk of getting slashed is too great.

The old fifties movies where street gangs whirl and turn taking quick stabs at each other is ridiculous. Anyone who's seen massive slash wounds can attest that they can be far worse than stab wounds. They do require a bit more than a band-aid and some New Skin! By doing a Google image search, enter "knife wound" and check the first six or seven pages. But beware, some are quite graphic.

In my state, I can't carry a concealed firearm legally. I also can't carry any knife as a "weapon," even if it's for self defense. But since there's no blade length limit, I carry my Vaquero Grande in my back or side pocket, and I am glad to have it.


voyager_m_l.jpg


Size does matter! A 4-inch Cold Steel Voyager
(top) and a 3-inch Voyager. One inch can make a
lot of difference. So why are there no 5-inch
bladed Spydercos?
 
Joe Talmadge said:
Just a contrary opinion, the axis is incredibly well-suited to self-defense. There's a theoretical concern about the axis lock getting unlocked in use. The problem is, it doesn't seem to happen in reality. Meanwhile, some people who don't like the axis recommend a liner lock, which theoretically has no problems, but in practice is by far the most likely to have reliability issues. My strong recommendation is not to shy away from the axis!
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!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

And would someone please proove the theory about unlocking axis or shut down forever? Thanx.
 
First sorta post,

Anyway, in regards to Conferats post :p, most serious knife wounds are in fact caused by stabing. Most fatal wounds are those that pierce the ribcage and puncture a major organ. Most fatal knife attacks are done by large kitchen knives.

Also, most knives will slide in the hand if you are stab someone. That is why the police will look at a suspects hands as the hand invariable slide down the blade. Most proper combat knives have a guard. Folding combat knives dont have this.
 
Re:Axis not suitable for SD post

I have not even HELD an Axis lock knife, my post was clear enough in representing this info as what I believed to be 'Common Knowledge' in the SD/MBC forums.

-Please pardon my laziness, as I'm sure a quick 'SEARCH' will take me to usefull links.-

The threads/posts I refer to in my earlier 'Axis not suitable' post are by some of the Resident Experts of BF. Without naming names (since I'm gong from memory) I believe one of the people who holds such 'Beliefs' is a trainer/active cop who designs gear for some of our favorite SD knives, at least one other I believe is the designer of some of the knives carried by BForumites.

It's also a contention that I've read ONLY from people who deal with real life MBC trainning. If I were to read it from someone like me 'hey those sok for SD...I've never carried one'' I would just read along, but the above mentioned members are particulary scrutinized everytime they post an expert opinion an I've yet to see (read) any thread where their opinion on the Axis unsuitability for this particular use is ever questioned.

So there, shoot me (don't) :)
 
James makes some interesting assertions. I imagine lockbacks have been the primary type of folding knife with a locking mechanism simply because they have been on the market longest with the mostest.

Proving a theory about the Axis lock will be difficult, simply because the narrow way to pin down details about how the lock is opened in combative use will be arbitrary and really not very informative. Which knife, which grip, how hard a grip, what size hand, which strike in that grip, what is it striking, is it parried, is it new or a year old EDC with pocket link and yesterday's bologna sandwich in the lock, was it a glancing blow perpendicular to the mechanism, did the hand slip, did something else contact the lock mechanism . . .

I seriously doubt a concrete answer will ever surface, so we'll just keep going on about it.

Here's an absolute you can count on: ANY folding knife may unlock under high stress with the hand touching any part of the mechanism. ONLY fixed blades can guarantee not folding up - if they don't break in half, which could happen with some of the cheap junk that is always on the market.

A moot point as knife combatives are a minor player in the arena of self defense options.
 
Actually in most country's other than the US a knife is the primary means of SD.

I agree with Metis a regular or even better a waved Endura is a good quality but still reasonably priced folder that does not scream "weapon".

If your knife is 4 inches or shorter you are probably better off with a slashing attack preferably to the arms or targets of opportunity on an attacker. If you want to do a stabbing attack you need a knife long enough to penatrate the vital organs.
The classic FS Dagger is a perfect stabbing weapon.

In knife fighting and your sex life bigger might not be better but it sure does help with your confidence and that can make all the difference.

If you are concerned about legal ramifications of defending yourself try a serrated rescue folder from spyderco in bright yellow. It will have those wicked serrations for defending yourself with slashes to the arms and face but look very non-threatening to police.

I generally prefer a small fixed blade for EDC like my Scrapyard SS4 but have recently bought a Spyderco Chinook3 and a Waved Commander for when a fixed blade is inappropriate. I had heard some rave reviews about the wave but when I first tried it I gasped out loud it worked so well. That modded Yojimbo would be perfect for where you are legally stuck at less than a 3 inch blade. That was great work and looked stock.
 
OrangeJoe said:
Re:Axis not suitable for SD post

I have not even HELD an Axis lock knife, my post was clear enough in representing this info as what I believed to be 'Common Knowledge' in the SD/MBC forums.

-Please pardon my laziness, as I'm sure a quick 'SEARCH' will take me to usefull links.-

The threads/posts I refer to in my earlier 'Axis not suitable' post are by some of the Resident Experts of BF. Without naming names (since I'm gong from memory) I believe one of the people who holds such 'Beliefs' is a trainer/active cop who designs gear for some of our favorite SD knives, at least one other I believe is the designer of some of the knives carried by BForumites.

It's also a contention that I've read ONLY from people who deal with real life MBC trainning. If I were to read it from someone like me 'hey those sok for SD...I've never carried one'' I would just read along, but the above mentioned members are particulary scrutinized everytime they post an expert opinion an I've yet to see (read) any thread where their opinion on the Axis unsuitability for this particular use is ever questioned.

So there, shoot me (don't) :)
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Are you talking about Chris Caracci (Urban Jungle), a designer of AFCK?
He criticized an axis lock AFCK, but it was some misunderstanding, IIRC. A point was about hitting (by opponent) an axis button, and disengage a lock. Well, an opponent could also hit your hand, and 'disengage' your hand without disengaging a lock.

Franco
 
The debate about cutting/stabbing seems never endding. I think it's wise to not be limited to either, and to be prepared to do both. Also, imo, a well designed sd folder will have a gaurd (or something similar) to stop the hand from slidding. The yojimbo is a good example, the coldsteal voyager is not. As for locks, pretty much any of em can fail, but some are much more reliable than others. One credible person (Mercop,who I highly respect) believes the axis lock is a poor design for defense also recommends a liner-lock. I might not be as credible, or even credible, but I personally believe the exact opposite. Why would I give up on a lock that I "might" accidentally close for a lock that might just close by itself? As far as overall reliability, I'd rather have a framelock than either. -Also, if you were so inclined, you could grind down the axis lock making it near to impossible to close by mistake.
 
OrangeJoe said:
The threads/posts I refer to in my earlier 'Axis not suitable' post are by some of the Resident Experts of BF.
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The forum has hundreds of custom knifemakers, one or more representatives from every leading production maker, several sheathmakers, and dozens of steel/performance/abuselimit testers and reviewers.

See the problem?

Not only are there too many experts to count, but each of them more likely than not specializes in a particular field of knife knowledge. Saying "an Expert said that" without a link to the original post that we can see the reasonings of said person amounts to no more than a game of telephone, which is bad for knowledge.

As far as I know, one of our best folder lock experts is Joe Talmadge, and he has already spoken his reasoning. (Which is that the axis design has great real-world implementations. The only other mainstream "quick-open/close" lock type is the linerlock, which though theoretically sound, can be terrible when implemented in the real world.)
 
If you did a poll, you'd find the broad consensus to be the axis is one of the better choices for SD. Yes, some knowledgeable guys like Caracci don't like it (though I'll note he never tried one before he decided it didn't work), but there are many more who think it's a superior choice.
 
Unsub said:
I agree with Metis a regular or even better a waved Endura is a good quality but still reasonably priced folder that does not scream "weapon".
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I'm with you guys. I'd pick it in a heartbeat over the others mentioned by the original poster.

If your knife is 4 inches or shorter you are probably better off with a slashing attack preferably to the arms or targets of opportunity on an attacker. If you want to do a stabbing attack you need a knife long enough to penatrate the vital organs.
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Definitely disagree, though this is probably the wrong place to argue it. Slash when it's time to slash, thrust when it's time to thrust. Generally, thrusting will be the better stopper, even with a folder (because the body compresses, it's easy to hit vitals even with a 3" folder or shorter).

I had heard some rave reviews about the wave but when I first tried it I gasped out loud it worked so well.
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If you like it now, try pressure-testing. Get an waved and unwaved training drone. Have your buddy attack you with some pressure. While tired and stressed and "fighting" off your buddy (safe drill rules please!), try to draw and open the waved vs unwaved knife. You'll gasp even more loudly, I bet!
 
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