one self defense folder

silpheed said:
First sorta post,
...most serious knife wounds are in fact caused by stabbing. Most fatal wounds are those that pierce the ribcage and puncture a major organ. Most fatal knife attacks are done by large kitchen knives.
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Well, I reckon it's how one defines "serious." I've seen numerous slash wounds that lay people open like those Cold Steel slabs of meat. And though I wouldn't question the fact that a stab wound to the right areas can more readily take a life, most stabs don't, in fact, kill. A slash to the throat, inside forearms, face, side (about 4-6 inches under the underarm) or the inside thigh and you're talking serious or lifethreatening injuries. And I'd like to know the statistics for those stabbed in a knife to knife fight versus unarmed folks who are stabbed. It's far easier to stab an unarmed person than someone who can fight back.

Large kitchen knives have always been the weapon of choice for gang fights, despite all that garbage politicians believe about switchblades. Most switchblades are of light or flimsy construction, whereas kitchen knives tend to be big, built for butchering and good at chopping, slashing or stabbing. Your punks in a bar are more likely to be armed with locking folders or small fixed knives.

The best bet is to not get in a knife fight in the first place. I've seen people who have been badly slashed and laid open like a fillet, yet they're able to move, talk and even fight if they had to. It reminds me of the stories I've heard of lions that literally kill each other and someone finds their bodies less than 100 yards from each other, both dead from loss of blood.
 
Joe Talmadge said:
If you did a poll, you'd find the broad consensus to be the axis is one of the better choices for SD. Yes, some knowledgeable guys like Caracci don't like it (though I'll note he never tried one before he decided it didn't work), but there are many more who think it's a superior choice.
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i can see how it could accidently close, if i was gonna pack an axis for SD i would simply grind down the button to where its flush with/a little below the scales, problem solved, if there ever was a problem lol.
 
I always assumed the 'Axis Problem' was something to do with impacts, or something else that would cause it to fail. So the SD problem with the axis lock is that it's possible to disengage from the outside, versus a linerlock or frame lock?

I wonder if that's a problem with lockbacks without a Boye dent.
 
I would think that a good sd knife would be the most ordinary, tool looking, thing you could lay hands on. If you could figure out how to put a clip, and fast opening device on a large sak, it would get my vote. I think it would be more defensible in court to say/show that you had to use your sak to ward off an attacker, that to say/show how you did it with your super strong folding zombie deanimation dark ops device, or anything that remotely resembles one. As for the slashing/stabbing debate, while I don't have any real world experience, and not nearly as much training as many of the folks on here, IMHO a system advocating "defanging the snake" such as Mike Jannich's MBC, or the knife tactics taught by Bob Orlando, are much better suited to American laws/tastes/politics than something like Sayoc Kali. In the former, most of the preliminary strikes/defenses are to relatively non vital areas that will still destroy your opponents ability to fight, and render the wounds treatable post encounter. Contrast that to Sayoc where something like "right hand 3 of 9" has 9 strikes to major areas that will nearly all lead to a fatality, and, when executed correctly, are extremely hard to treat ie. interior/exterior jugular, blue worm, abdominal aorta, femoral (crotch), brachial (armpit) with followup stab under jaw, femoral (thigh), heart shot (from side through ribs), throat slash (just in case you missed the first time). While it may be the best way to end a knife confrontation, it will be much harder to stay out of jail in the second instance. You also revert to what you know best when under extreme stress....it would be a real shame to kill somebody by reflex when you might have had another option....if you had to do it, it should be a conscious decision and not a reflex. All the thoughts in this post are just my opinions, I am not stating anything as undisputed fact, saying I am right and everybody else is wrong, or trying to cause trouble....I am just putting my opinions out there.
 
Well, once, just once i have read from a guy, using his, let it be a Elishewitz or something, folder in trainigs against something like a sandsack and how surprised he was, that his folder, strong as nothing, collapsed on the stabs.

For me, that is real world, first hand.

I have read everything considering why an axis is not suited for sd and everything was pure fancy. I might have missed the forumite, who have seen, how an axis could be unlocked because of the overlooking axisbar. But well, i have looked on my axis folders and couldn´t see how that should work without spastics.

IMO everybody shall share his experience and what he has seen. I am bored from things somebody has heard or repeats theories.

This doesn´t fit to a serious knifeforum.
 
Blop said:
Well, once, just once i have read from a guy, using his, let it be a Elishewitz or something, folder in trainigs against something like a sandsack and how surprised he was, that his folder, strong as nothing, collapsed on the stabs.

For me, that is real world, first hand.

:snip:

IMO everybody shall share his experience and what he has seen. I am bored from things somebody has heard or repeats theories.

This doesn´t fit to a serious knifeforum.
Click to expand...

Blop, I agree with you. That is why I asked for comments from first hand users. For Axis discussion see above post.
 
Blop said:
Well, once, just once i have read from a guy, using his, let it be a Elishewitz or something, folder in trainigs against something like a sandsack and how surprised he was, that his folder, strong as nothing, collapsed on the stabs.

For me, that is real world, first hand.

I have read everything considering why an axis is not suited for sd and everything was pure fancy. I might have missed the forumite, who have seen, how an axis could be unlocked because of the overlooking axisbar. But well, i have looked on my axis folders and couldn´t see how that should work without spastics.

IMO everybody shall share his experience and what he has seen. I am bored from things somebody has heard or repeats theories.

This doesn´t fit to a serious knifeforum.
Click to expand...


you have an axis folder and cant see how the button could be moved accidently in a struggle??

really??

now dont get me wrong i like axis knives, BUT i can see how it could happen and if i was gonna pack a axis for SD i would grind down the buttons.

imho its not BS.
 
I carry an early version R.E.K.A.T. Sifu in ATS-34, with the Rolling Lock.

My knife's Rolling Lock is very tight and secure with no blade play in any direction, and it is not a later one that was subject to QC questions on the lock.

It fits into the pocket with just a touch showing above the pocketline, and is flat enough to not "print" much if you wear khakis or other dress pants. Really tight pants would show it, but they would show anything anyway.

It has incredible reach and great retention features.
Strong as an ox, with dual stainless liners and G10 scales, and a good pivot, and hex-head cap screws with stainless spacers for construction.
The 5.5" recurved hollow-ground blade is scary sharp and has excellent geometry for deep slashing.
The point is very "pointy", and there's a false top edge for deep penetration.

If "scary factor" is a consideration, this knife is as likely as anything to "scare away" an opponent, if that would be possible. It looks like "death".

The main drawback that I see is that deployment via the thumb-studs is not as fast as a smaller knife would be, due to the size of the knife. However, it can be "popped" open with a wrist-flip, and that works pretty fast. On my knife, the lock engages completely and securely during the wrist-flip opening.

It might be possible to disengage the sliding button that engages the Rolling Lock, in a similar way as an Axis Lock. While I think that this may be a low-likelihood event, I do recognize it as a possibility, so I use grip styles which would keep me from doing that accidentally, and they fit into my normal grip style, so it's not a problem for me.

The Sifu is one awesome knife, and you'll not feel "under-knifed" if you carry it, ever.
Some people might consider it too big, for certain applications.

I figure if I'm holding the Sifu in my right hand, and the leash attached to my 140 pound male Rottweiler in my left hand, it would deter most anybody who doesn't have a gun.
 
SIFU1A said:
you have an axis folder and cant see how the button could be moved accidently in a struggle??

really??

now dont get me wrong i like axis knives, BUT i can see how it could happen and if i was gonna pack a axis for SD i would grind down the buttons.

imho its not BS.
Click to expand...
Yes, i really don´t see how this should happen.

Imaging, that i am in trouble i grab the knife pretty strong. I don´t see, how in that stress i should twist my thump around to catch the button.

Anybody considering me, to twist and turn the knife in my hands like Billy the kid his Colt?:D Not me. To me, the "white knuckle test" is more reality based.

Grabbing, stabbing, slashing. But why should my thump or finger play around?

BTW durng that year i was linking the topic from Mr. Carraci about Axis AFCK, so it still can be found in the archives by just searching for AFCK. Please correct me, but he never prooved his statements.

Again, if someone in trainigs manages it to relaease the axis lock unintentionally, just by trained moves, i would gladly listen his reports.
 
If you want a self defense knife, I would recommend getting something fixed blade. But you have to ask yourself, do I plan on carrying another blade for utility chores? Or will this 'self defense knife' be a do-it-all blade...you know, SD, box opener, MRE dissassembler, get that rock out of my shoe. My SD blade is which ever one I put in my pocket that particular morning. That said, I pick a blade that I trust. Not knocking have a SD blade, but that is less than 1 percent of what you are going to end up using the blade for, but for that less than 1 percent you are going to need it.
 
Blop said:
Some people wonder about the 5th finger groove. :D
Click to expand...

Ha!
Yes, it's for "freaks" like me with 6 fingers!

Seriously, I do like that it allows for variations in the way you hold it, so that you can get extra reach by holding it further back on the handle.

It's my favorite big folder.
 
twl said:
I carry an early version R.E.K.A.T. Sifu in ATS-34, with the Rolling Lock.

My knife's Rolling Lock is very tight and secure with no blade play in any direction, and it is not a later one that was subject to QC questions on the lock.

It fits into the pocket with just a touch showing above the pocketline, and is flat enough to not "print" much if you wear khakis or other dress pants. Really tight pants would show it, but they would show anything anyway.

It has incredible reach and great retention features.
Strong as an ox, with dual stainless liners and G10 scales, and a good pivot, and hex-head cap screws with stainless spacers for construction.
The 5.5" recurved hollow-ground blade is scary sharp and has excellent geometry for deep slashing.
The point is very "pointy", and there's a false top edge for deep penetration.

If "scary factor" is a consideration, this knife is as likely as anything to "scare away" an opponent, if that would be possible. It looks like "death".

The main drawback that I see is that deployment via the thumb-studs is not as fast as a smaller knife would be, due to the size of the knife. However, it can be "popped" open with a wrist-flip, and that works pretty fast. On my knife, the lock engages completely and securely during the wrist-flip opening.

It might be possible to disengage the sliding button that engages the Rolling Lock, in a similar way as an Axis Lock. While I think that this may be a low-likelihood event, I do recognize it as a possibility, so I use grip styles which would keep me from doing that accidentally, and they fit into my normal grip style, so it's not a problem for me.

The Sifu is one awesome knife, and you'll not feel "under-knifed" if you carry it, ever.
Some people might consider it too big, for certain applications.

I figure if I'm holding the Sifu in my right hand, and the leash attached to my 140 pound male Rottweiler in my left hand, it would deter most anybody who doesn't have a gun.
Click to expand...


imho the REKAT "rolling lock" is not a good lock at all, i (and many others) have had probs with them failing to lock correctly. though the lock doesnt seem to bad on smaller knives the inertia of the 5.5" blade seems to wear the little pin which is what locks the blade & since REKAT is outta 'biz if it does mess up ( and most will sooner or later) no one will work on them.

i would have to say the scariest thing about a rekat sifu is when the lock fails and the thing cuts the hell outta your hand, it sure scared me lol. it was also scary dealing with the folks who ran rekat trying to get them to fix your 21st century lock after the 3rd time it had failed.

and hey, i at one time LOVED the sifu (look at my user name) but after having not one, not two but three different ones which all had lock probs i very quickly fell outta love and sold the sifu's and got a cammilus cuda maxx which is a lot better knife.

oh, and if ya like your sifu NEVER inertia open it, thats really hard on the lock, if ya wanna do a search and find a schematic of the rolling lock, if ya do ya will understand why its not really suitable for production knives, the tolerances are wayyy to tight and if ya have any wear, its gonna fail to lock, also the pin which locks the blade is too small imho. simply not a good design, probobly the main reason rekat is no longer around. as far as comparisons to the axis the axis is 10X the lock the rolling lock is, all it will take to convince ya is a short look at the schematics of the 2. bob taylor himself told me it was very hard on the rolling lock to inertia open it and said thats why mine kept failing(though i stopped inertia opening them they didnt stop failing lol, of course bob also told me that my sifu was the only one which had lock probs, and that was total BS) so, again, do not inertia open them or ya are gonna have probs.

suffice to say i would never reccomend a rekat for much of anything, short of collecting i suppose.
 
Blop said:
Yes, i really don´t see how this should happen.

Imaging, that i am in trouble i grab the knife pretty strong. I don´t see, how in that stress i should twist my thump around to catch the button.

Anybody considering me, to twist and turn the knife in my hands like Billy the kid his Colt?:D Not me. To me, the "white knuckle test" is more reality based.

Grabbing, stabbing, slashing. But why should my thump or finger play around?

BTW durng that year i was linking the topic from Mr. Carraci about Axis AFCK, so it still can be found in the archives by just searching for AFCK. Please correct me, but he never prooved his statements.

Again, if someone in trainigs manages it to relaease the axis lock unintentionally, just by trained moves, i would gladly listen his reports.
Click to expand...

again, you cant see how if the knife twists in your hand it could release the lock??

i sure can, maybe my hands are bigger than yours, or something, but its not rocket science.
 
SIFU1A said:
imho the REKAT "rolling lock" is not a good lock at all, i (and many others) have had probs with them failing to lock correctly. though the lock doesnt seem to bad on smaller knives the inertia of the 5.5" blade seems to wear the little pin which is what locks the blade & since REKAT is outta 'biz if it does mess up ( and most will sooner or later) no one will work on them.

i would have to say the scariest thing about a rekat sifu is when the lock fails and the thing cuts the hell outta your hand, it sure scared me lol. it was also scary dealing with the folks who ran rekat trying to get them to fix your 21st century lock after the 3rd time it had failed.

and hey, i at one time LOVED the sifu (look at my user name) but after having not one, not two but three different ones which all had lock probs i very quickly fell outta love and sold the sifu's and got a cammilus cuda maxx which is a lot better knife.

oh, and if ya like your sifu NEVER inertia open it, thats really hard on the lock, if ya wanna do a search and find a schematic of the rolling lock, if ya do ya will understand why its not really suitable for production knives, the tolerances are wayyy to tight and if ya have any wear, its gonna fail to lock, also the pin which locks the blade is too small imho. simply not a good design, probobly the main reason rekat is no longer around. as far as comparisons to the axis the axis is 10X the lock the rolling lock is, all it will take to convince ya is a short look at the schematics of the 2. bob taylor himself told me it was very hard on the rolling lock to inertia open it and said thats why mine kept failing(though i stopped inertia opening them they didnt stop failing lol, of course bob also told me that my sifu was the only one which had lock probs, and that was total BS) so, again, do not inertia open them or ya are gonna have probs.

suffice to say i would never reccomend a rekat for much of anything, short of collecting i suppose.
Click to expand...

Sorry, gotta disagree with you on this one.
But I do appreciate your warnings, and I knew about this before I got my Sifu, and paid attention to which one I got, and checked it out closely before purchasing it.

The later ones did have QC problems relating to the lock.
Mine is an early one, and it has no problems.
I know people like to rag on REKAT because of what happened when they were having production problems, but this knife is as solid as a rock. They weren't all bad.

I'm very sorry you had problems with yours.
I'll take your valuable and prudent advice to not inertia open it.
Thanks.
 
unless yours is one of the very early ones with the lever in the front by the blade vs the button on the handle (i havent ever seen a sifu with that, have seen some pocket hobbits like that) all the other rolling locks were the same, i suppose the lever style wouldnt be prone to accidental disengagement but the way it works is the same as the other, and they all had lock problems, nelieve me. go check out the old REKAT forum and take a look youself, i would imagine that would convince you.

i stand by my statement that you will eventually have problems, probably , if you use the thing at all anyway, its just not a good design for a production knife, now a pat crawford knife w/a rolling lock, thats another story.

so we'll have to agrre to disagree, time will tell, i hope you are right as if you do have probs i dont have a clue as to who would work on it, i know for a fact pat crawford wont, i suppose someone would,
 
If one's thinking of a primarily SD knife & is looking for something that they can quickly get into action from the pocket, I'd say it's Spyderco's new P'kal. After much prodding by a friend, I checked one out, & I think it's the quickest knife out there. I will say that that is my opinion only & I'm talking about manual opening knives (Or even A/Os, but not autos).

From experience, using a knife is PROBABLY going to be a last ditch thing. One is probably going to yank their knife out & stab with it. Unless, of course, you're expecting trouble.

As has been mentioned, when you are in the "use" phase, the 2 biggest concerns are going to be:
1. Your hand not slipping forward as you cut &/or stab, onto the blade. You basically want something to keep you fingers from sliding onto the blade (Especially your index finger). Whether it's a flipper, deep choil, or deeply indented frame/handle/scales, it doesn't matter as long as it works.

2. Accidentally engaging the blade release. Yes, the axis can be accidentally engaged while using the knife. Just play with it, you'll see. Will it? Maybe not, but it CAN. A good quality lockback will work, but again, can it be engaged? Yes, it can. The indent that Spyderco uses (Yes, I know, it has a name, but I can't remember it exactly right now), helps in that issue. Frame & liner locks can fail, but if properly executed, are probably the safest way to go.

My Buck/Strider 882 opens quickly, but seems to be safe from accidentally closing it (I say "seems" to be, nothing's 100% quarenteed).

I liked the LAWKS system used by CRKT (If I recall, my old Gerber Covert had one, too). But I don't like how they use it on their knives now. I, personally, can't seem to close the knife with one hand (Well, I can with practice, but honestly, it's too much of a fine motor skill if I've just used it to defend myself).

Just some humble comments & definitely just my opinon. This thread's very interesting & I'm definitely enjoying the comments.
 
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