Liner-locks are just fine by me. I like the simplicity of frame and liner-locks. Liner-locks usually make for a more comfortable grip than frame-locks. As long as the liner isn't so thin as to let it bend easily and the engagement is good there is no reason not to trust it. I really don't understand some people's obsession with ultimate lock strength? So long as it's strong enough to wiggle back out of some wood or other material and withstand a bit of an accidental impact it should be strong enough for a folding knife. If you're putting more stress on the lock, (and pivot for that matter) than that, you need a fixed blade or perhaps a pry bar.
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Opinions on liner locks
- Thread starter Wolverine666
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evilgreg
Why so serious?
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Except that there's no proof that frame locks are even actually stronger.
Consider again that an expensive frame lock fails at forty-five pounds:
Where a cheap liner lock holds a hundred-fifty pounds:
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Hi. Have a few folders with liner locks, the last one I acquired is a ZT 0909. A beast of a knife. Stabbed, thrusted, torqued, twisted, not the slightest move of the lock. I am not afraid of liner locks when done right
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The 0909 is the MOALL (Mother Of All Liner Locks).
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I wasn't offended I just disagree is all. As for how long I have been on this forum I lurked for about five years as I felt for a long time I got enough out of it just by reading. I have always been into knives but only about six or seven years ago got seriously into them.
As I said in my previous posts I find when I grip my frame locks in either hand in a normal knife using grip I do not feel like I am putting much force against the lockbar. I feel like alot of the force of my grip when holding a righty frame lock in my right hand goes on the 'spine' of the scales and the opposite 'belly' side. The remainder seems to be the tips of my fingers pushing the presentation side scale against my hand. I find that the lockbar usually recieves minimal force as it sits in the curl of my fingers. If that is my experience then how can me not coming to the conclusion you do make me inexperienced?
Maybe if I see some scientificly done tests that present evidence otherwise I will change my mind. I do understand that the force on the spine does not equal the force the lockbar will pop out with but again as I mentioned before I am not talking about a framelock with lockslip. I'm talking about a force that causes lock failure on an otherwise correctly working framelock. I agree the pressure a regular grip puts on the lockbar can prevent lockslip.
Now maybe your hands are different than mine (they probably are) or maybe the knives are different. However I just don't see how a lockbar is recieving that much force from the curl of the fingers.
As I said in my previous posts I find when I grip my frame locks in either hand in a normal knife using grip I do not feel like I am putting much force against the lockbar. I feel like alot of the force of my grip when holding a righty frame lock in my right hand goes on the 'spine' of the scales and the opposite 'belly' side. The remainder seems to be the tips of my fingers pushing the presentation side scale against my hand. I find that the lockbar usually recieves minimal force as it sits in the curl of my fingers. If that is my experience then how can me not coming to the conclusion you do make me inexperienced?
Maybe if I see some scientificly done tests that present evidence otherwise I will change my mind. I do understand that the force on the spine does not equal the force the lockbar will pop out with but again as I mentioned before I am not talking about a framelock with lockslip. I'm talking about a force that causes lock failure on an otherwise correctly working framelock. I agree the pressure a regular grip puts on the lockbar can prevent lockslip.
Now maybe your hands are different than mine (they probably are) or maybe the knives are different. However I just don't see how a lockbar is recieving that much force from the curl of the fingers.
I never said anything about which lock is stronger. I just don't even understand why it's so important to have a crazy strong lock on a folder in the first place? I generally prefer linerlock over frame as they tend to be more comfortable and plenty strong enough for what I need a locking folder to do.
In general, devices with higher failure limits are generally better quality (quite obviously there are exceptions).
It is like if you got a spatula rated at 600F vs 1000F for cooking, or a car that has a top speed of 250mph vs 150 mph. You will never reach the max limit, but the one with the higher max limit inherently is a superior system, and therefore is higher quality.
At the end of the day, liner locks and lockbacks will not fail ubder normal use, even though lockbacks are superior. Your 600F spatula wont melt, and your toyota prius will get you to work just as effectively as a lamborghini.
SpySmasher
Lead Guitar
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Working alongside many engineers, I was once told this silly but enlightening engineering joke:
"A scientist, optimistic about the future, looks at the glass and sees it half full. An artist, full of melancholy, looks at the glass and sees it half empty. An engineer looks at the glass and sees that it's twice as big as it needs to be."
I do not normally like liner lock, nor frame locks. On our ranch we used to call them fail locks. They do not hold up to real hard use, though they are usually easy to clean. The Spyderco Military is the one liner lock that I think is okay. Still, when the new Police 4 comes out, my Millie will get put in a box, most likely.
However, I think you will like the Military. I prefer it to the Paramilitary anytime.
However, I think you will like the Military. I prefer it to the Paramilitary anytime.
I like liner locks just fine. The ones that I regularly use are the Spyderco Military and Benchmade 913. I've owned others in the past with no problems. OTOH I do have a big CRKT M16 with a lock that moves around as you push on the blade, not too confidence-inspiring. The CRKT LAWK system may keep it from completely disengaging but so far I have not wanted to put it to the test.
P2P
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I ask with genuine curiosity, what sort of tasks have you encountered where the liner lock is no longer capable? To get a nick name such as "fail-lock" leads me to believe that something happened more than once to merit the mockery.
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ejames13
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I think it all depends on what you value in a knife/spatula/car. Usually when you increase one functionality you decrease others. For the car scenario, if my highest priority is gas mileage, then I'm going with the Prius. It doesn't matter that the Lamborghini does 250mph if it only gets 10mpg. For knives, I value ease of use over lock strength. So I'd rather have a Military liner-lock than a Cold Steel tri-ad lock.
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Look, ive explained my reasoning. Ive done testing in regards to the disagreement and because of those tests I feel it gives me a perspective on the subject you simply dont get just theorizing. Who knows maybe after 20 years carrying frame locks as my main edc my grip has evolved as such to do as I say it does where others simply trust their lock will not fail. I however trust nothing i dont personally experience myself. But its because of that lack of trust i do my own testing of things that I theorize and i feel that through that first hand experience the most knowledge is earned.
Now if you did your own testing and came up with a different result i would look at it in a different light. But at the end of the day, to me its kinda like the guys who trash bearing knives and theorize that they have no business in a knife. They have never and will never give them a chance no matter what evidence is shown to them. In the case of bearing users you have people who actually know through experience and another group who have decent theories but they are in most case unrealized or completely disproven yet they cling to them and yet never go beyond that theory.
I just feel that some things at some point become fact by those doing that testing and it should be taken more seriously than the person who doesnt believe it because they have done nothing to experience it for themselves. And that is where i feel i differ. We both dont take things at other peoples word but i try to learn via experience so that when i challenge someone on their position i have more than just theory to go on. Maybe you also made a presumption, that I was just theorizing myself and had done no testing of my own? And its also possible that the way you hold your knife when performing a cutting task doesnt reinforce the lock. But that could be as simple as having bad knife habits which i think most of us have one or two including me. Because if i knew there was a way to grip my knife to prevent the lock from failing and chose to do it differently i would consider it the wrong way. But that is just me.
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Like I said we will just have to agree to disagree. It's true I haven't done testing. It is also true that I can feel that my hand is not putting much pressure against the lockbar. I would say that it would be worse knife technique for me to hold the knife in a way where I had to uncomfortably contort my hand in order to achieve that pressure.
As I said your hand or grip or knives are likely different than mine and likely giving you different results. Also I do beileve that a little pressure will help prevent lockbars from slipping. One thing is for sure, I have little confidence the way I hold a knife would prevent a lockbar from popping open if the spine of the knife suddenly recieved say a 200 lbs force that caused the lock to fail. I hold my knife in a firm comfortable grip but I don't gorilla grip it for general cutting like I would if I was in a self defense scenario.
I don't really see how I can test it anyway as I would have to be gripping the knife how I do usually then apply pressure either suddenly or gradually to the spine of the blade. If the lock failed the blade would certainly close on my fingers. So I'm not doubting you, just asking, how do I achieve the experiment? If I am not holding the handle as I normally would while trying to get the lock to fail then it's not really an accurate experiment. Even if I completely ground the edge of the blade flat as possible I still wouldn't want it closing on my fingers with any real force.
Anyway I'm not saying you're wrong. Just that I don't completely know.
As I said your hand or grip or knives are likely different than mine and likely giving you different results. Also I do beileve that a little pressure will help prevent lockbars from slipping. One thing is for sure, I have little confidence the way I hold a knife would prevent a lockbar from popping open if the spine of the knife suddenly recieved say a 200 lbs force that caused the lock to fail. I hold my knife in a firm comfortable grip but I don't gorilla grip it for general cutting like I would if I was in a self defense scenario.
I don't really see how I can test it anyway as I would have to be gripping the knife how I do usually then apply pressure either suddenly or gradually to the spine of the blade. If the lock failed the blade would certainly close on my fingers. So I'm not doubting you, just asking, how do I achieve the experiment? If I am not holding the handle as I normally would while trying to get the lock to fail then it's not really an accurate experiment. Even if I completely ground the edge of the blade flat as possible I still wouldn't want it closing on my fingers with any real force.
Anyway I'm not saying you're wrong. Just that I don't completely know.
Anyone have any scientific and empirical evidence regarding locking mechanisms which has been proven by using generally accepted scientific principles? If not, then it is basically anecdotal hearsay. I know this won't have much bearing on posters continuing to express their opinions but at the same time what value do such opinions have?
Imagine determining the efficacy of a pharmaceutical drug based on comments from members of a forum who simply use such drugs. Perhaps useful in a clinical study conducted by professionals, but in and of itself not worth much. But what the heck, carry on. Whatever.
Imagine determining the efficacy of a pharmaceutical drug based on comments from members of a forum who simply use such drugs. Perhaps useful in a clinical study conducted by professionals, but in and of itself not worth much. But what the heck, carry on. Whatever.
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every engineer ive ever known would have said....we need a bigger glass that can hold 100 gallons or more just in case.
then the marketing people and sales folks come in and stop their over engineering due to costs no one would ever need or ever pay for.
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^^This is true. I believe also what may be true for one person might not be true for another. At the same time this thread is titled opinions on liner locks so people are giving their opinions.
You make a great point, increasing the functionality of one aspect decreases the functionality of other aspects. Going with your car example....if you got a 1000F spatula vs 600F, the 1000F might be too bulky for general needs. Guess we can't have it all...or can we? Hmmm
OK I won't argue with this but then it just comes down to posters expressing their opinion about a red handled knife vs. some other color, etc. That's fine with me but the opinions, no matter how long or detailed, are in essence: I like liner locks or I don't like liner locks. We are now on page five of such opinions...I assume it will go on for a few more pages and then eventually die out.
My opinion is based on personal experience. This can change with more experience. The more experience I gain, the more my opinion means to me, and confident I am with it.
But I never discount others' opinion, if it's based on personal experience. They might have experience under different conditions than I've had.
But I never discount others' opinion, if it's based on personal experience. They might have experience under different conditions than I've had.