optimum edge holding?

carbidizing shouldn't be too pricey, and there are some knifemakers with the equipment who can do it. They add carbide to edges as well as lock faces. For a couple hundred bucks you can get a light duty carbidizer that works like a small engraver and do your own.

Farid, how thick is that 15V knife? 1/2" thick bar could be EDM'd down to split out thinner plates, but that probably costs around a hundred bucks an hour at a machine shop.
 
i just think they're neat. i understand fully that i'll likely never use these knives to their fullest extent, but why the hell not ya know? i like the idea of having a knife thats harder than any other steel on the planet almost more than 15v which would still hold an edge longer.

just cool and while i'm pricing stuff out, why not? but the carbidizing is interesting. very interesting. i wonder if i could have the bedlam all super edged up? i love the knife but the 154cm does dull very fast in my experience. a couple boxes and its noticeable. the sebenza holds its edge much better, and of the knives i have, my ffg 53 in d2 is the leader with m390 tsek a close second. the d2 doesn't hold its edge as well, but the geometry of the blade makes it feel like it. which brings me back to the op-- great slicing geo + top of the line steel = temporarily pleased spartansaint :D

i just bring up the stellite cuz i saw those mick strider customs, did some google and some threads in the knife makers forums made the stuff sound kinda cool
 
Stellite sounds cool, but I don't think it's practical. The carbides make it wear resistant and hard to sharpen, but the low hardness of the matrix means that even if cutting through cardboard doesn't technically dull the edge, it will roll the edge.
 
hardheart said:
carbidizing shouldn't be too pricey, and there are some knifemakers with the equipment who can do it. They add carbide to edges as well as lock faces. For a couple hundred bucks you can get a light duty carbidizer that works like a small engraver and do your own.

Farid, how thick is that 15V knife? 1/2" thick bar could be EDM'd down to split out thinner plates, but that probably costs around a hundred bucks an hour at a machine shop.
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The 15v bar I have is around 3mm thick.
 
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tungsten carbide is probably not what you want. it is really hard, and can scratch glass, but you can't get a very thin edge angle on it due to chipping.
One other option is a harder grade of Stellite. Tantung (which is similar to stellite 6K, but 60-63 Rc). Though not as hard as some of the other steels discussed it has a massive amount of really hard carbides, but unlike stellite 6k the matrix itself is also hard. Tantung is brittle, but not as bad as carbide; it is inbetween HSS and carbide.
 
bchan77 said:
A quick question for those with extensive experience using ZDP-189: do you have to use diamonds for sharpening? Can the Sharpmaker ceramic rods handle the job? Thanks.
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I had real trouble sharpening zdp with just the ceramic rods on sharpmaker . I use the edge pro on my zdp and its not a problem getting it sharper then it came . I hate the diamonds , I used light pressure and they still wore and still takes time . I would say buy a zdp blade its one of my fav folder steels if not number one. When it comes time to sharpen tightly clip some sandpaper to brown rods if you have to remove some metal . Zdp is great and sharpening is far between
 
Nebulae said:
tungsten carbide is probably not what you want. it is really hard, and can scratch glass, but you can't get a very thin edge angle on it due to chipping.
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since when is being hard and able to scratch glass a bad thing? i wouldn't say tungsten carbide is "chippy" unless it's extremely thin and the angle is extremely low. built as a folding knife blade, it should be to handle just about anything short of whittling steel bars.
 
when i get some cash i might look into having the bedlam carbidized, but for now i'm hunting for an acies and it looks like i might have to have to talk to farid down the road a bit about getting something made out of rex.

dunno why but between the appeal of supreme hardness, the name and exclusivity of it rex is my favorite steel. probably until i own it and try to sharpen it :D
 
since when is being hard and able to scratch glass a bad thing? i wouldn't say tungsten carbide is "chippy" unless it's extremely thin and the angle is extremely low. built as a folding knife blade, it should be to handle just about anything short of whittling steel bars.
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its not. I love WC I am currently working on a few WC blades right now, I love the challenge of it, and the awesome factor.

Problem is that it cant support very thin edge angle without micro chipping, which causes it to dull about as fast as steel. And it sounded like the O.P. wanted a slicing machine with a very hard blade, but also wicked sharp, thin geometry
 
Mrbladedude said:
? M4 is hype? What makes you say that?
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It's not.....

The basic rule of edge retention is as follows:

Higher Percentage of Alloy (Carbides) combined with Hardness = Better Edge Retention

All one has to do is get the Alloy (Carbide) content of different steels and bust out the calculator and start adding things up, edge retention will follow the Alloy (Carbides) content given proper hardness and HT about 99% of the time. ;)

So trying to say something like XHP with 20% alloy content will perform better than S110V at 35% alloy content is ridicules at best.
 
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Ankerson said:
So trying to say something like XHP with 20% alloy content will perform better than S110V at 35% alloy content is ridicules at best.
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The carbides in question are different too. The XHP has bigger, softer chromium carbides. S110V has smaller & considerably harder (more wear resistant) vanadium carbides. Even at equal carbide percentages & hardness they wouldn't wear at an equal rate.

I'm no whiz at this stuff but I'm pretty sure that almost all of S110V's (ridiculous 9%) vanadium is tied up as carbide while a good percentage of XHP's chromium stays free. Reading knifemaker's horror stories about trying to grind S110V gives me a good idea of what that stuff is about.
 
jeffphansen77 said:
The carbides in question are different too. The XHP has bigger, softer chromium carbides. S110V has smaller & considerably harder (more wear resistant) vanadium carbides. Even at equal carbide percentages & hardness they wouldn't wear at an equal rate.

I'm no whiz at this stuff but I'm pretty sure that almost all of S110V's (ridiculous 9%) vanadium is tied up as carbide while a good percentage of XHP's chromium stays free. Reading knifemaker's horror stories about trying to grind S110V gives me a good idea of what that stuff is about.
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That's why I said the basic rule. :)

The type of carbides do matter also, but in general higher carbide percentage = better edge retention.

So when things don't make since then fall back on the basic rule and you can generally separate the truth from the BS really fast or at the very least cast some serious doubt on what was being said then look into it farther.

So when people start saying steels like S110V, S90V, 10V, M4, M390, ELMAX etc are all hype you can have some serious doubt in what they are saying, then look at the steel or steels they are trying to hype up and compare.

That will give you a direction to look in and get started in the research.

Saying something like D2 is better than 10V for example, look into it and in a very short time you will see how impossible that can be given proper HT and hardness in both steels.
 
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^ which isn't to say one can't prefer a "lesser steel". If you love d2 by all means go ahead. But nohz gets a little ridiculous with his statements. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe he's tested vanadiam carbide steels past s30v, at least not the last list I've looked at. That's all bickering about test protocol aside

I know I've seen him regard 440v or s60v highly, so the hypocrisy is almost humorous
 
Saying something like D2 is better than 10V for example, look into it and in a very short time you will see how impossible that can be given proper HT and hardness in both steels.[/QUOTE]


I agree that you cannot compare a standard grade of steel like D2 with CPM-10v or 15v.
On most occasion I have found most people just like to have a good cutting tool (D2 will do just fine) and not too bothered about having something ultra wear resistant, but also some people like to have the best and that’s where the high grades of CPM come in to it. Personal experience of making CPM-15v and CPM-10v or CPM-S125v knives to users, most users find them challenging if not impossible to sharpen and the reason is a course edge (in my opinion) does not work on these steels, you need to work these high grades of CPM steels to as fine a finish on the edge as possible, a smooth and polished edge, water and oil stones are a total waste of time on these grades (in my opinion) DMT stones works fine, the problem is you need to buy a few different grades, course to very fine. I hope this info has been helpful.
 
SpartanSaint said:
^ which isn't to say one can't prefer a "lesser steel". If you love d2 by all means go ahead. But nohz gets a little ridiculous with his statements. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe he's tested vanadiam carbide steels past s30v, at least not the last list I've looked at. That's all bickering about test protocol aside

I know I've seen him regard 440v or s60v highly, so the hypocrisy is almost humorous
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I know what you mean. :)

I am talking about removing all bias, urban legends and HYPE and just looking at the facts, nothing more.
 
I hope you have a piece of that 15v laying around next time I have cash. I would love me a stupid awesome necker
 
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