OT At least he didn't use a knife too!

It was a bad day for the news Mike. Two days before Thanksgiving and the world is still crazy. The baby is one of the worst things I've ever heard of. How can a mother do that.....depression my sweet aunt Louise's a$$.

I'm not sure the war has much to do with it. This type of thing has been getting steadily worse for years. Perhaps the most saddening thing is that my grandchildren will look at these things as normal happenings instead of the horrible tragedies they are.

I think what are missing these days are rules, values and respect for others.
 
peter nap said:
I think what are missing these days are rules, values and respect for others.
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I couldn't possibly agree with you more, Don.

Perhaps the war is more a consequence of the rest of the tension and craziness than the other way around.
 
They are now looking into the possibility of Vang being involved in an unsolved murder of a hunter three years ago !...There were bad guys in the old days and some were big news stories .As a kid in Brooklyn we had George Metesky[the Mad Bomber] who was active before and after WWII but stopped during the war because he was patriotic!! It was the first case where the FBI used profiling techniques .We also had a serial killer [his GF lived in the apartment below us so I knew who he was], killed 4 women apparently due to head injury. Keep safe.
 
Originally posted by Peter Nap." I think whats missing these days are rules, values and respect for others."

Absolutely so Don, and they all start at home. Its ashame to say but its our generation that is responsible for a lot of it today. To much spare the rod, spoil the child. I see to many parents trying to reason with unruley children instead of blistering their butts. But if you punish your children these days, then you have some bleeding heart calling social services on you. In some cases, social services needs to be informed, but the majority of the time government needs to stay out of family raising.

Our 11 day rifle deer season just ended here yesterday, I approached a couple hunters during the course of the season and had a couple approach me, just to see how things were going and if I had seen any thing. I never throught anything about these strangers when we approached each other, but nuts like this one sure do make you leary and a little more defensive when you see a strangers approaching now. I know it was a very rare happening and the odds of it happening to me are next to improbable, but it sure does diminish some of the joy and pleasures from something a person looks so foward to each year. Black powder season starts this next weekend for 9 days, so if someone approaches me with a semi-auto rifle, you can bet I'll be a bit nervous.

Bill
 
Absolutely so Don, and they all start at home

It does indeed Bill. When Jane and I decided to have kids, we agreed that I would provide the financial support and she would do the real work and raise the kids. It was a struggle at times and we didn't have the newest cars or take the most expensive vacations (Fact is I haven't really taken a vacation since 74)

But it paid off. We have two wonderful children that finished school, got good jobs and have lived decent lives. Both of them gave me a few Grey hairs, but the trouble they did get in, was normal and in some cases amusing.
 
peter nap said:
Absolutely so Don, and they all start at home

It does indeed Bill. When Jane and I decided to have kids, we agreed that I would provide the financial support and she would do the real work and raise the kids. It was a struggle at times and we didn't have the newest cars or take the most expensive vacations (Fact is I haven't really taken a vacation since 74)

But it paid off. We have two wonderful children that finished school, got good jobs and have lived decent lives. Both of them gave me a few Grey hairs, but the trouble they did get in, was normal and in some cases amusing.
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Sounds like my life Don. My wife has never worked in the almost thirty years we've been together. She stayed at home an raised my two kids. Like you said, they go though the typical growing pains, but nothing like these nutty kids are doing today. I know it's rough to make ends meet nowadays, but I still feel if you have kids, the mother should be home to raise them not the frickin' daycare that so many people rely on to raise their kids. I can't
imagine someone leaving their 6 month old child in a strangers care. :confused: Call me old fashion, but that's my story and I'm stickn' to it. ;)
Scott
 
School is from morning till 3:30pm. Most working parents I know can get home for dinner with the kids by 6pm.

That's 2 1/2 hours your kids are with someone else outside of schooltime.

Maybe it's just me, but I think good parents can properly teach their kids family values in the mornings, evenings and weekends. I don't think 2.5 hours is gonna make or break anything.

Both my parents worked when I was a kid, all 4 of my grandparents worked when my parents were kids. All my siblings turned out okay.
 
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Your right Alvin...and wrong.
Obviously you came from a family that loved you and were able to teach you the values during the time they had.

Many fine people are born in and grow up in family's that have two working parents. Having one parent at home is not a guarantee that you will turn out properly anymore than saying a child that grows up in a working family is doomed.

If you treated parenting like knife making, it would go something like this;

Many knives are made by people who do not own any power equipment. Many of those are beautiful and useful knives.

Many knifes are made using proper grinders, Etc. Many are beautiful and useful knives.

It's just easier using the power equipment.

Your assertion that working parents only give up 2 1/2 hours is untrue. Using your time line the school is raising your child for the better part of their day.

True they have him or her during that time but any parent that blindly allows the school to teach values or anything other than the three R's, is playing Russian roulette with the child's future.

Parents need to be as active in the school and at times, a genuine pain in the arse, as they are at home. Parenting can't be measured in hours, it is a 24 hour a day job. That job comes ahead of any other job the parents have. Many working Moms and Dads can't make that distinction.

My Mother gave up her teaching job to be home with us. That did not guarantee I never got into trouble. The fact is I did. I spent several years in Military School because of some of my pranks. I was allowed to start College a year early also because of one of my pranks. Thats a long story but it wasn't because I was smarter than anyone else. It was because the school allowed me to use my college credits to complete my high school graduation requirements and the principal felt it was better for the two of us to be separated. (He had no sense of humor :D )

But...the bottom line is that my mother was always there to redirect me when I strayed off course. My father was also, but he was a practicing attorney and did not have the time to drop everything and find out what was going on right away.

It's harder to raise children now Alvin. Many of the things I did when I was younger, Like taking Sam Heltzels Johnny house on Halloween, and putting it at the only stoplight in a nearby town, would be a felony now. Back then, everybody got a stern look, made you take it back and laughed like hell when I was out of earshot. Kids can't do that anymore.

It is just easier to have a full time parent. That's not a guarantee, but it is using the right equipment.
 
O I agree Alvin, I don't think kids need to spend every waking moment with their parents when their not at school. Matter of fact when I was old enough to go to the neighbor kids house on my own, every day after school I would be over there until dinner time or they would be at my house. But my parents were parents, they didn't try to be my best friends. They disciplined me and my siblings when we needed it and we deserved what we got. My family was a very close knit family, we enjoyed a lot of great times together growing up and for that I will always be thankful for the loving hands that my parents showed us. My parents were me and my wife's best friends until the day they passed away, but they took the time to teach and keep an eye on us when we were young and needing guidance.
To many parents today don't do these things, they take the kids to sports events, karate classes, one after another school functions, drop them off at the mall, etc, ,etc, in stead of staying together as a family unit, very few families sit down and have supper together ( we did every night) or go to church. To many parents don't teach values and respect. They just think the kids learn this on their own, they can and do, and if they hang around good kids that have been taught this they learn good. But if they hang around kids that could care less about others they learn that too. It all starts at home, and it's the parents job to make sure the kids learn whats right. Sad thing is, there's many a parent that could care less.
Now you might think I was raised in a wealthy environment, not even close. My dad was a capenter and my mother was a house wife. They bought and worked a broken down fishing camp in the summers and then it took every cent they had to make the payments so they didn't loose it back to the bank though the winter. We never went hungry, but there was many a times we never got our fill either. Growing up, we ate a lot of fish and it wasn't by choice. But that was one advantage we had by living by the water. Times were hard but times were good, because my parent made it so.
 
Bill, that's about the best and most sincere, explanation I've ever seen!

I'd also like to second the fact that it is not necessary and really think it is wrong, for the parents to spend every minute with the kids. Kids need their own time. I used to go home after school and then spend time with friends until dinner.
He is also right about dinner. It is the time that the family shares the day with each other.

Church....same thing. I have no doubt that attending Church is not a guaranteed ticket to heaven....If it is and I make it, I'm going to see a lot of people I dislike immensely! :grumpy:

what it is, is a handhold on family, community and spiritual values.
I'll admit that I don't go to church as often now. I feel that I'm closer to God in the woods than in church......but, when the kids were growing up. We went every Sunday.
 
B . Buxton said:
Originally posted by Peter Nap." I think whats missing these days are rules, values and respect for others."

Absolutely so Don, and they all start at home. Its ashame to say but its our generation that is responsible for a lot of it today. To much spare the rod, spoil the child. I see to many parents trying to reason with unruley children instead of blistering their butts. But if you punish your children these days, then you have some bleeding heart calling social services on you. In some cases, social services needs to be informed, but the majority of the time government needs to stay out of family raising.

Bill
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Bill I think you hit the nail on the head.
Or maybe the influence from liberals on the east and west coast hasn’t made it to us in the middle states yet. :footinmou
I don't know what I would have done if my mother would have said "OK your in time out mister" instead of “OK you are going out there and cut me a willow switch”

Joe Foster
 
OK you are going out there and cut me a willow switch”

Boy did you have it soft Joe.....I had to cut Hickory! :eek:
 
Bill said it very well. And Peter's example about power tools was a very good one. :) I'd add that the best situation would be 2 full time parents at home...but how many of us win the lottery, right? :D

Look, I'm not anti-fulltime-parent...I'm all for them. My post was more in response to the posts that imply that 2-working-parent households are dysfunctional.
 
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