OT: Childhood Depravity or What?

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The Easter Egg hunt this year went off as planned. There were new hopes for Trav. He was four. His head was large, the frame of the body impressive. If I didn't know better I'd swear he was Pendentive's or Semper's son and not mine. My head is rather small and no longer full.

"Trav, you can go to the top of the hill, back down, by the fence and all the way back here, finding as many eggs as you can put in your basket."
"Where's the Golden Egg?" He asked
"No one knows. If you find it, great. But don't worry about it. It's well hidden. But you know where the boundaries are, right?"
"Yes Dad."

The starting yell went up and the children raced foreward. Trav was in the lead of the pack. Look at those thick limbs churning. And he didn't stop at the top of the hill like last year.

He stopped in front of an egg and stared at it. Once again, The Easter Bunny came over to assist.

I was yelling at him to go, go, grab the eggs and go. The rest of the kids were greedily gobbling the eggs into the sacks as fast as they could. The green was clearing. The Bunny put an egg into Trav's basket. He tentatively picked one off the ground and gingerly placed it next to the other. It was in slow motion, like watching a cripple going through his first new steps after the Accident. The two of them only managed a couple more before the Race was done.

The oldest Son had his own problems. Off he went, not following the Pack, but on his own, intent upon the Golden Egg. I didn't know it at the time, but an older girl had told the group unless they found the Golden Egg they were all Losers.

When the Hunt ended he was in tears. I couldn't make out what he was saying. There were three eggs in his basket, less than even Trav, so I thought that was it.

'It's just a silly Easter Egg hunt, Carter, don't worry. You don't need to grab a lot of eggs."
"No," He said, tears falling across his face. "I saw the Golden Egg first but someone grabbed it before I could get there."

There were people all around us. You couldn't hear very well. I didn't want them to embarress my son further. They'd probably think he was crying because he couldn't find many eggs. Half the crowd wasn't really speaking to me anyway, as I'd stopped going to their Church. "The Little Mountain Church Of Our Denial" I'd named it silently.

My Son wouldn't stop the silent tears. I talked to him.

There's a Lady in town with a Checkered Past. I wouldn't know about that; mine isn't so great either, nor are most of ours, but some townsfolk had assigned her the Goat. She walked over now.

"Don't worry. My girls did the same thing when they were Trav's age. All they could do was freeze. It took a few years for them to move, they were so shy."

This simple gesture made me feel much better. I'd begun to think my boys incapable of mass consumption. The other tots grabbed and consumed.

"Carter," I told him later at home, "there probably was no good answer. I'm proud of you for spotting the Golden Egg, even if you didn't get it. You could have yelled out you found it, but the other kid may have still beat you to it, or you could have done what you did; tried to get there before he saw it.
"You know," I said seriously, "this kind of stuff happens a lot in Life."

... ... ... ... ... ....


This and one more, this stuff that happens in Life. Trav brought his small yellow plastic stegasaurus dinosaur down the stairs today and marched him along the arm of my chair.

"Do you remember when you got that?" I asked.
We'd been at the Doctor's office for his shots. He was three and a half. The Doc wanted a lead test, so we had to draw blood. Only Trav would have none of this. Down the hall we went, three nurses, an X-ray Tech, myself and Trav into a room with a strappable bench. Trav knew something was up. He laid down as requested but struggled as soon as he realized they wanted blood.

It was only a finger stick- but oh what a finger. They couldn't hold it down. Four of them pinning him with their arms and weight and he in velcro straps. He looked at me pleadingly, screaming for help. How could I allow this? Finally, they gave up on the finger, flattened his arm against the bench, and drew reluctant blood with a syringe.


There isn't much to say after this. Welcome to Civilization? Sorry you had to see the violent heart of these nice ladies? Your Dad turned you over to Nazis? A Nurse brought in a bucket of toys. Some of them were quite good, five bucks each. Then there were the usual balloons and tiny figurines, a couple minature trucks and a few balls. Trav loved trucks. That's just a fact. I figured the largest Truck was coming home with us.

"You can choose two," She told him.

And out of the whole tangle, a very small, rubbery dinosaur was selected, a little bigger than a Quarter. It wasn't even a Meat Eater. A Vegitarian, for Christsakes, worth about ten cents. He was still sniffing but his eyes were alight, already forgiving us, and ready to leave.

My hard headed little boy picked the most vulnerable animal in that bucket. And he loves that dinosaur. The other toy is long gone and forgotten. It may have been a ball. Stegasaurus still lives here, a very bright yellow.

So I don't know what all this means. I never figured out the rules either. Watching my sons trying brings it back.




munk
 
Thanks for sharing Munk.

Kids are amazing aren't they. I still haven't figured out the part where if they bump their head or do something small that hurts.....they don't start crying until you ask if they're okay or go to hug them. There's that 5-10 second pause where everyone is trying to decide to hug or grab the cold compress.....
 
Munk. We ran our little Heather thru a 'dress rehearsal' of an easter egg hunt at Grandma's house so she could see what it was about. She seemed focused on the qualities of the eggs, not the quantity, and she was more interested in sharing the eggs around with us than greedily finding them all.

Woe to the adult who taught the girl that they were 'losers.' They have started another on their twisted path.

Try this: Make or buy a golden egg, put it somewhere where Travis will find it, or present it to him. Write "winner" on it. He'll get the msg. (or shoot me an email, and I can 'craft' one up outta wood and gold leaf.) If you opt fer the plastic kind, you can put a prize or note inside it, too.

Kids are sooo precious!:D

Keith
 
Of the many strange rituals of the human species, Easter has got to be one of the weirdest. I know it has something to do with dead Jesus, a giant rabbit, and children fighting over and consuming large quantities of poisonous concoctions of sugar and artificial flavors. But, it didn't seem like anything I would want my kids to participate in.
 
You're just seeing the modern christian take on an old pagan religious practice of Ostara, taking place on the Spring Equinox.

Christmas also replaced Yule, (member the song about the "Yule-tide carols?" They weren't songs venerating Jesus, I'll tell ya) a celebration of the Winter solstice.

Halloween replaced the celtic celebration of the dead at the Autumnal Equinox called Samhain. Was kinda like the hispanic "day of the dead" celebration.

Think of the modern takes on stuff as a 'thin veneer' of confusion over an older tradition.

Didja kow that the Christian Hell is named after Hel, the norse goddess of death and the ruler of the norse underworld?

Keith
 
Ferrous,

Could you explain what this all is about?? There is a lot of controversy in the Christian world over how the holidays came into being and such and i have been fascinated watching people get all bent out of shape about this that and the other...including myself on occasion. :rolleyes: Basically i'm too lazy to research all the stuff you just talked about :eek: but could you lead me into the light on the old holidays and even the tradition of Christmas trees if you have the time. I guess you can just tell me where to read it and i promise to get around to it :footinmou :rolleyes: Thanks
 
Hey Ferrous,

Dont' leave out the names for the months of the year and days of the week. :) Torsdag, Mittwoch etc.

Personally I like the story of St Lucia at Christmas with a big glass of glog......

Eddie Izzard gives a pretty good explaination of Easter/Christmas & Jesus in his comedy "Dressed to Kill".....gotta check it out.....don't know if BlockBusters carries it though.
 
Guys- I'm the worst thread terrorist there is. I babble away. But do we have to sink this one into Christmas trees? I thought we'd covered X-mas trees.

Mamav- I do not disturb myself with the probability Jesus was born in Spring, and as Benaround humorously suggests, we've wrapped a giant Rabbit around His Death. Oh Well. Men will sell sugar concoctions for many reasons. I like sugar concoctions, in fact, I've no complaint with the Rabbit or Santa, only that we make the candy better.
There is no See's candy in Montana I'm aware of.

munk
 
Ferrous Wheel said:
You're just seeing the modern christian take on an old pagan religious practice of Ostara, taking place on the Spring Equinox.

Christmas also replaced Yule, (member the song about the "Yule-tide carols?" They weren't songs venerating Jesus, I'll tell ya) a celebration of the Winter solstice.

Halloween replaced the celtic celebration of the dead at the Autumnal Equinox called Samhain. Was kinda like the hispanic "day of the dead" celebration.

Think of the modern takes on stuff as a 'thin veneer' of confusion over an older tradition.

Didja kow that the Christian Hell is named after Hel, the norse goddess of death and the ruler of the norse underworld?

Keith


There's a really great book I have. It's called "Babylon Mystery Religion..Ancient and Modern" by this minister. It's actually really well researched and it kind of goes into all the pagan trappings that Christianity has picked up along the way. The cross as a graven image, Easter eggs, selling indulgences, transubstantiation, a celibate priesthood. Whether you think the paganization of Christianity is a good thing or not the book is still a great read and has a lot of interesting historical trivia
 
Keith?

I usually learn stuff when you examine topics. Thank you.


Kis

(edit: Munk, I enjoyed your telling of the initial story. Moments to savor.)
 
Yeah, I do too. Keith is great. I guess it was out of liine for me to try and stop the tide. Full steam ahead- Christmas trees and bunnies.



munk
 
Munk, you rather reminded me of something that sits on my shelf now. My mum was going through the loft a few weeks back and found the little toy fireman I had when I was very little. Most of the colour has been chewed offf his helmet but he now stands and watches over my room, strange how these old attatchments can stay with you.
 
Thanks for the stories, munk.

Aigh! I want kids so badly. I was headed toward a lovely young lady in the common area at school today, on a mission to ask her out, but I was distracted by the beautiful little child of a fellow student. Guess I have to get the girl before I can get the kids! :D

Ferrous, my former wife was born on Dec 21; my b-day is the 25; my next gf after the wife was born on the 29; the next serious gf was born on the 31st...
:)

John
---
3" Model 65
Guide Gun
PSS
Glock 24 w/ high caps
 
Sure, but it takes some time. So instead of a full run down, I'll treat the direct question on trees, Gin:

In the old ways, the folk believe that the walls between the living and dead grow thinner at the start of the Autumnal equinox, reach their thinnest in the Winter solstice, then grow thicker again up to the spring equinox. To honor the dead ancestors, and to help them reach the festivities with their relations, the folk put candles and shiny objects in the fir trees outside (the old days involve feasting with the dead ancestors invited to din-din quite often). As christianity advanced across Europe, bans were put on such ceremonies (the NDNs know how this went, with the prohibitions of sun dances and such more recently) and the trappings of such ceremonies, so the trees were cut down and taken indoors, or the old sacred groves were blocked with fences and palisades to avoid the eyes of the public. That is why the tree moved indoors in the first place.

The tree has become a more secular symbol these days, as was ruled in a case here in IN where a tree was put in a window of a public college bldg, and it was argued that it was a public display of religion (too bad no one knew which one!).

Origin of wreaths for Yule - the folk of the household or community would weave a wreath from evergreen branches, then they would write or carve their wishes on what they had at hand and then they'd sticke these in the weave of the branches... At the Yule celebration, the wreath was burned on the Yule log to hasten the wishes in the form of smoke and fire to the gods/goddesses in Asgard. (this may be the origin of the 'wish list' that children leave for Santa).

Gift-giving: Simply put, in the germanic and scandinavian areas, gift giving was the biggest form of economical transactions they had. They had a culture of gift giving, and they believed that a gift deserved a gift.

Other Yule symbology in the modern world: Ever notice how saint nick is almost always depicted as winking? This is a direct ref to Odin, who gave one of his eyes at the well of Mimir to gain wisdom and foresight. Donner and Blitzen: These deer on Santa's sleigh are the names of the goats (rams) that pulled Thor's chariot across the sky. Donner=means thunder, and Blitzen=lightning. Santa, the jolly old Elf: The term elf comes from Alf, or Alfar, the male spirits of one's ancestry.

Note: The evergreen tree and gift giving was also paralled by a holiday in Rome called Saturnalia.


------------
A brief bit on Easter, to smooth the confusion of symbolism:
Used to be called Ostara (ON for Eastern Starm or the sun rising) after the goddess of the returning sun. If you live above the arctic circle, it'sa darn impotant time -- after 6 MONTHS of dark, She's the most beautiful thing you'll ever see. References to the "May Queen" in lit or song are referring to her. Eggs were boiled and painted, then thrown inn the air for luck, the object of the game being to throw it the highest and catch it without breaking (remember to remove those rings when trying this, folks). The eggs were eaten of given as offerings, and the colored shards were kept for luck in the coming year (Spring equinox was the beginning of the year for the Germanic tribes, as well as for the Greeks and Romans).


Fenryr--true, even the very days of the week were sacred to the gods. Mittwoch for Wodensdag was made in an attemt to eradicate the rites of the Allfather Woden, or Odin in the germanic areas:

Monday-- Manni's (the Moon god) day
Tuesday--Tiw's Day (Tyr, god of balance, justice, victory in battle, the olde leader of the pantheon in pre-migration age europe
Wednesday - Woden's day
Thursday - Thor's Day
Friday - Frigg's day (Odinn's wife, goddess of hearth, earth, wisdom)
Saturday - Perhaps going back to the Roman Saturnalia)
SunDay - Sunna's Day (Sun goddess)

Hope this helps. As for resources, I'll hafta compile a list of the top 10 sources. Prob with these subversive history studies is that you must comb thru so many books and resources to find this stuff. What they don't want you to know is harder to find than what they do want you to know.

Wassail!

Keith
 
In large, the basis for much of this isn't so hidden, secret, or mysterious.
The specifics pertaining to a particular detail like Yule trees may be.

It seems that just about everywhere, when humans reached a certain level of living in large communities, which was probably accompanied by some dependence upon agriculture, four special days of the solar cycle caused by the particulars of the the Earth's orbit about the sun were noticed and observed with some kind of ceremony.

Winter Solstice--shortest day of the year, also sun's height above horizon at noon is smallest

Spring Equinox--equal period of day and night. sun height above horizon mid-way between the solsice positions

Summer Solstice--longest day of the year. sun reachest highest point above horizon at noon.

Fall Eqinox--equal period of day and night. again mid-point above horizon at noon

Various ancient astronomical devices, some in the form of elaborate temple complexeswhich have been found in N America, S America, Mid-East and Europe (I'm less familiar with other part of the globe) have been shown to or thought to incorporate the ability to acurately observe these phenomina.

Not that surprising, since sun-worship seems to have been prevalent in many ancient cultures across the globe.

Whether one lives above the Artic Circle, Mesopotamia or Central America, the spring equinox is an important time--whether first glimpse of the sun or time to plant crops. Eggs, seedlings, or other symbols of life and fertility have an obvious connection here across religions, old and new.
Choosing this time as the beginning of a new year seems pretty obvious.

Correspondingly, symbols of the harvest, and perhaps death naturally appear at the fall equinox.

Wherever they went, Christian missionaries co-opted these holidays as part of the conversion process. Winter Solsice=Christmas (paradoxical, new life in the middle of winter, but spring is taken by another event), Spring Equinox=Easter (resurection, fits well), Summer Solstice=?? (must be something that didn't stick), Fall Equinox=All Saint's Day or Day of the Dead ( um, death, often ancestors).

Some places, more of old traditions survive.

A Persian store near me displays and sells items to create a display like this at home for the spring equinox, which is their new year:

NYearComp.jpg


Not a great pic, but eggs, green growing sprouts, fresh-cut flowers, confections and other food, plus a not so discernable bowl of live goldfish. Substitute a bunny for the fish, toss most of it in a basket, wouldn't look much different than Easter. Each item has a symbolic meaning.

I found this interesting site which describes Persian New Year traditions that have ancient origins.

excerpt:

A mirror [is] placed on the sofreh face up with a plain hard-boiled egg placed on it in the middle...

...Just before the change of the year, all members of the family, in their new clothes and holding a new coin in their hand for good luck, gather around the haft-sin display and, quietly and patiently, watch the solitary white egg on the mirror. Each one imagines a huge bullfish in the ocean of time carrying the world on one of its horns. Any moment now, the bullfish will toss the world over to the other horn, resulting in a tremor that will dislodge the egg and send it rolling to the side of the mirror...


This is good too:

http://www.payvand.com/news/04/mar/1137.html

So what was it the missionaries tried to sell for the summer solstice anyway?
 
munk said:
His head was large, the frame of the body impressive.

I never knew a large head was a good thing. I always thought an above average sized head just got in the way and made one run slower due to the increased air resistance.
 
Thanks Ferrous for the interesting tidbits.

I think summer and the Christians must be on hold for the return of the King.

Interesting how much of our society functions around these old beliefs even to the days of the week. We're all in this circle of life. Hope we all end in the same way.
 
BruiseLeee said:
I never knew a large head was a good thing.

Years ago when I was in film school I came across an article by a guy who had a theory that movie actors became stars because they had bigger heads than the other actors that they worked with and would dominate the screen. This became especially obvious in a close two-shot. I don't remember the details, but he gave examples of all these famous movie stars and it did seem true, they all had bigger heads than usual. I think these were mostly male actors, for female actors the large head rule had a subset called the "mammary factor".
 
What's the deal with the bunny??

It bugged me enough to find out:

http://einstein.stcloudstate.edu/Dome/constellns/lep.html

Lepus and the Easter Bunny

According to Staal, the legend of the Easter Bunny may also be connected with this constellation. According to the story, there was at one time a bird, which was changed into the hare by the Anglo-Saxon Goddess of Spring, whose name was Ostara. or Eostre. The creature lost its power to fly, but Ostara compensated this loss by giving the hare great speed.

Once a year the hare is allowed to lay eggs again, which is why in the springtime, we hunt for the eggs of the Easter Bunny.


Also many cultures including the Anglo-Saxons, have seen a rabbit on the face of the full moon.

rabbit.jpg


http://www.adlerplanetarium.org/learn/moon/culture.ssi

The Moon was often an important god or goddess with spiritual connections to fertility, crops, spring, death and rebirth and other cyclic changes...

...In Northern Europe, the hare was a part of the Spring renewal. The Anglo-Saxon goddess of the Spring was called Eostre (or Ostara or Oestra). Not much is known about her, but one of her symbols is the egg hatching out chicks, a metaphor for rebirth.

Germanic peoples would light bonfires to Eostre at dawn around the equinox (the first day of Spring). This would also be the time when male hares would compete for mates. Hares would gather in the fields, box each other, then breed. This behavior occurs on most nights in March, but could only be seen by people at full Moon. This is the origin of the 'Mad March Hare'. Both the hare and the rabbit then became fertility symbols.

Thus, hares, hatching eggs, the Moon, and the goddess of Spring were all a vital part of the resurrection of the year and the renewal of the world from winter. This mythology, became incorporated into another renewal story - the sacrifice and resurrection of Christ, which also took place in the spring at Passover. Several of Eostre's traditions and symbols became co-opted into the new religion. So 'Easter' has a pagan thread to it, with the ritual of the blessing the new fire and the 'Easter-bunny' delivering eggs.


When people watched the sky at night, instead of watching TeeVee, they came up with some interesting stuff.
 
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