OT: Philosophy III

Able: There's some good news and some bad news.

Baker: What's the good news?

Able: GOD is visiting tommrow.

Baker: After that, what could be bad?

Able: She's got PMS.
 
"Asking questions is a sign of weakness" is right up (DOWN!) there with "Never complain; never explain." Sounds cool. No sense.


Explain me this, team. When that woman dared to look over her shoulder at her burning home and God turned her into a pillar of salt, was He angry?
 
Bill Marsh said:
Think about that, Can God get angry? IF so, we are in huge trouble!
. . .
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If you believe on the Old Book, we are in trouble. See, God, Wrath of. Examples? Oh, start with 185,000 Assyrians slain for mocking Him. 70,000 of the Tribes of Israel slain to punish a third party (David) for "numbering" the Tribes of Israel contrary to His wishes. 23,000 of the Tribes slain for premarital sex. Etc.

Then there's the Flood -- killed virtually the entire population of the world. (Earth First would really be upset if He tried that today. Forget the people [AKA "the problem"]. Think about billions and billions of dead animals and plants. Earth First would have to take "direct action.")

Fire next time, yes?
 
Thomas Linton said:
"Asking questions is a sign of weakness" is right up (DOWN!) there with "Never complain; never explain." Sounds cool. No sense.


Explain me this, team. When that woman dared to look over her shoulder at her burning home and God turned her into a pillar of salt, was He angry?
Click to expand...

Thankfully, when this stuff comes up, I get to fall back on what I was taught as a Catholic - "The bible was written for people in biblical times." - which gives you a lot of leeway for explaining away discrepencies, inconsistencies or things that are just inconvenient or uncomfortable to discuss. One of our priests when I was younger had about seven doctoral degrees. He was bright enough to explain things in a way that made sense without falling back on shut up and believe or because I said so. He also encouraged questions. He had a rule that children had to sit in the front two rows and after his sermon he'd take a break to stop and ask us questions and allow us to ask questions as well before continuing with the service.* If I'd spent more time asking him questions, I'd probably be a lot less messed up now. :)

In this case with the pillar of salt, I hope he is angry. Otherwise, God comes off as a mean, ruthless b#####d. :eek:

I know executive types that subscribe to the, "Asking questions is a sign of weakness" theory. Instead, they just disagree with whatever you say so that you have to justify (and thus explain) each point. They'll claim afterwards they did it to make sure you know what you're talking about to excuse their arguments being wrong. It's a nice bit of posturing that makes them look strong and blunts the impact of the person they do it too. Even though you're right, you come off as weak because you're on the defensive so long. It can make a 15 minute meeting stretch out for a full day and not get resolved until morning. :mad:

This technique can also be used to get something done in the way they suggest when your way would be faster and better so they get credit for solving a problem. As they have more control of their time, they'll pick away at your way until you don't have time to argue anymore. :mad:

*Note that asking about the whole Joseph/Mary husband/wife relationship and Jesus being the son of God is a question you'd want to ask when your parents weren't there as they tend to think you're just trying to be a smart-alec. I couldn't understand why all the adults were laughing... :o
 
Who said...Questions are a sign of weakness? I picked it up somewhere...along the way...and now I am damned if I remember where...but I think it stands...A person in a conversation...asking questions...is at a point of weakness...just as the person who basbbles at a fast rate...or raises the tone and pitch in their voice...for emphasis.

A person strong and calm with a modulated tone...is generally comfortable and secure with their opinions...

This may have come from some of my LE/Security training...not sure...

God being angry...

Yeah Buddy! God was pissed a bunch of times in the Bible. He smote folks hither and yon...even some of his favorites got thumped proper. The Israelites, man he messed with them four several millenia...on account of they didn't listen worth beans...so he kept putting them in slavery...Who know's if God was in favor of the whole Gaza pull out? Far as I know his media people have not published an official statement.

This is one of those linch pin thoughts for me...

If God created all things...then he created pain, and hate and suffering.

Why?

Or are those things all illusions meant to test the faithful?

Shane
 
God is love...anger arises out of fear. Think of the Tibetan monks who were imprisoned and tortured by the Chinese, and when asked if they were angry, truthfully said "no!" In fact they were grateful because they view enemies as teachers.

Am I in that state of mind? Hardly.

The way I look at it is that anger and not forgiving people/events is hurting me on a physical level at the least, and deeper than that possibly as well. A teacher I respect greatly (and whose philosophy I am only now beginning to study, and therefore don't understand very well) says that Love,the creator, God, great spirit, great mystery, are all one and they are love. Anger does not come from God.
 
Somone says, 'if God created all things, why is there suffereing?"

Then we get into God must be mean, or whatever.

I said Men are the ones who confuse the Bible. Not God. What is it about perfect, that does not include the dark emotions of anger and hate?

Now, remember, I'm not speaking with the blood of prophets. I'm only on my second cup of coffee this morning, and even after 5 cups, will still be just a man. But this little man says, there must be everything, all kinds of things, in order for us to find out what is going on and who we are. If there are many limits, structures, if you want to throw out anger because it is not seemly, you remove choice and possibility too.

Stagnation is not a goal.
We don't understand God. That is as it is. I'm not going to say God is angry or not angry.

I suspect He does get pissed. Otherwise, A computer tied into a Gyroscope could substitute pretty well for LIFE.


munk
 
Spectre said:
Mr. Linton, could I get a reference on that? Thanks.

John
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5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

. . .

8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

1 Corinthians 10
 
Many cultures have different conceptions of God, and I don't believe any one can profess to be entirely correct. People can and do have faith that they alone are correct, but maybe they all can be. Maybe the faith is the important part - a set of beliefs that helps people in defining their parameters of right and wrong.

Perhaps God was an indirect creator. Perhaps God, or whatever it was, set it all up, and let it go. Or perhaps not. Either way, there's a powerful characteristic of people that would govern the system: free choice. And the question is what kind of choices a person makes in their life, be they for good or evil.

Anger is a characteristic of humanity. Perhaps God created it, perhaps not. That cannot be known. The fact is, it exists. And how a person reacts to their anger and what they do with it is the real question in this discussion.

Nam
 
Sorry Nam,

The real question is not what we do with it...

The real question is...Did God Create anger?

IN my puny little mind...I don't see God as a tinkerer who sat in his shop one day screwing around with a switch to make his grinder go faster...and all of a sudden...picked a booger...and instead of flicking it...or wiping it on his bib overalls...he started rolling it between his fingers...and all the sudden he gets this idea...and starts building a world...and then he just puts it in a cubby and lets it do whatever...

IN relation to what Munk said....If GOd is perfect and humans are the ones to get it screwed up...ok...I can buy that...with regards to the Bible...language and interpreations...easy...

That is why I went to the idea of emotion. We all know what ANGER is.

No way to screw it up through interpretation. Every human knows what it is...

If it is a part of us...then either God gave it to the Universe...or it came from somewhere else?

Where did it come from?

Shane
 
The dictionary meaning of the word "fornication" means any unlawful sexual intercourse including adultery.

The word "pornea" is normally translated in the King James Version of the Bible as "fornication." There are 32 verses in the original Greek versions of the Christian Scriptures that contain the word. Examples are...

Strong's Concordance gives 19th century meanings to Greek and Hebrew words found in the Bible. It describes "pornea," as having a somewhat broader usage in Biblical times, compared to today. When used literally, it includes three activities: prostitution, adultery and incest. Figuratively it means idolatry, or sexual intercourse between unmarried persons.
(From)

It is rather difficult to believe that God killed 23,000 people for premarital sex when the only penalty- given by GOD, if one believes the mythos- for RAPE of a virgin was to pay her parents and marry her...(#1 and #2)

As far as I have been able to determine, the Bible does not actually prohibit premarital sex. There are many verses about "fornication", but this appears to be blanket term describing all sexual misconduct, not sex before marriage. Again, as far as I can tell, Western prejudices have been preached from the pulpits, not what the Bible actually says...

John
 
I don't worry about these things. I live in a world where compassion, sociopathy, murder, kindness, rage, hate, anger, joy, mirth, peace, hunger, etc etc are to be found. How one handles nature, and responsibility and freedom, what choices are made, is what makes this worthwhile.

Out of curiousity, does the Bible say God is perfect? Does perfection mean no anger?

I must admit I'm more interested in Space and time, and where matter came from. I don't understand infinity.



munk
 
Yes- Matt.5.48: You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (RSV)


Rom.12.2: Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
 
Shane...perhaps God gave us anger (and rage, and hate, and envy, and all the other stuff) merely to see what we'd do with it.

The measure of the man is what he does with what he has.
 
Well I guess this thread is nearly ready to go where old threads go to die....

MAybe God did make anger...along with everything else...

So many of the Holy Rollers I have known from the East and West...caution that anger is a thing to be avoided...suppressed...Better to do nothing than be angry...is what I have been told.

But for me it is a part of being human...

Shane
 
I wish you and I could sit down on a Mountain in the Big Horns and talk about these things, Shane. I agree with you, you know, that anger is a reaction to an event/stimuli and is a neccesary force. I think anger can be directed well. I don't smother anger- that is dangerous. Ever run into a sarcastic fellow who 'never gets angry'? Sometime I use humor after anger, sometimes other behaviors.

Anger is not a justification for me throwing a shoe into a wall and leaving a hole. (as I have done) I do not allow myself to over demonstrate anger. That is ego, and that is what is 'suppressable' if you are expressing a response to the stimuli in appropriate ways for the time and context.

Anger shows you care. That's a good thing. Find ways to communicate that doesn't create problems but solves and heals. That's good stuff.


munk
 
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