Otf Dalton

I am replying to your ad as I received four emails from you in a half hour which is as followers,
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 20:25:53 -0400
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 20:26:43 -0400
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 20:43:06 -0400
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 21:04:47 -0400
My original email stated that I wanted to talk about the purchase of this knife from you and I was the first to ask to purchase it.
Your first email you gave a paypal account to make payment for it purchase.
Your seccond email you stated you would not ship outside of the USA
Your third email you stated that due to me being new on this site that I would have to use a money order for its purchase
Your forth email you state that it was sold, I know you can do with your property what you want but in the future Please DONOT respone to an offer like mine then decide other wise, what a whole half hour.
I was prepared to make payment with your paypal then money order as you asked. I guess that my money isnt good enough but I will say this, my attitude is and I will just go to another forum to purchase for my collection like Microholics or KnifeForums.com
Good Day Sir.
 
Mods if this needs to go to W&C please move..Ill try to keep it g rated.

Newbie..first of all..
1. you emailed me that you would like to discuss buying this knife..I respond ...first paypal..my mistake, I admit as you have only ONE post.. and a Yahoo email addy.. this does not make me feel comfortable selling a $250 knife.Im not gonna get screwed..so I request a money order..but I do not hear from you..and I get firm offer for cash from someone.. with a good reputation on this board.I take that offer..
2. with deals like this you should respond immediatly but you didnt...Im sorry the deal went down fast.all you said was you wanted to "discuss purchasing this fine knife" in the future post "ILL TAKE IT" and we could have worked out the details
3. I have had many people "discuss" purchase of a knife..what does that mean exactly..? In the past that has meant 20 questions additional pics and a then no offer and the "buyer" decides to disappear.
4. my apologies..but first in the door with cash get the prize..I wish you had emailed me saying ok money order is fine etc..but I recd only one email from you..your discussion offer..
5. I can understand your dissappointed, I would be too but its unfair to blast me in such a way..learn the etiquitte OF THE BOARDS BEFORE YOU START DISn PEOPLE!!

thats all I gots to say..
 
"I would be too but its unfair to blast me in such a way..learn the etiquitte OF THE BOARDS BEFORE YOU START DISn PEOPLE!!"

Sir:
I spoke the truth and I was not "DISn PEOPLE" I just thought others might want to know what I encounterd here with your sale. It is not my intention to violate the intregrety of any site or sale, I only expect proper Business and Social etiquette which was not shown me with your sale.
 
ribbman,
just a little free advice.If you want something on these forums,let the person who is doing the selling know that you ABSOLUTLY want the knife.Do not him,haw around.If you do SNOOZE,YOU LOSE.
Been selling and buying knives for 35 plus years.IF YOU SNOOZE YOU LOSE.
my .02
Randy
 
what it boils down to is this Its a hot knife..55 minutes elapsed between your email to "discuss purchasing the knife" in which you did not respond to my albiet scattered four emails I sent you..I checked my email at least 15 times.in that time I had FIRM offer for cash..I took that offer since YOU did not respond. Again I am sorry you missed this opportunity..but just because you send me email saying you want to discuss purchase..that does not mean its yours..Responding with "Ill take it and bonehead how do you want me to pay paypal or m.o." would have got you the knife..And to state that I did not show proper busines etiquette? its first come first serve..thats business..I have sold many knives here..honorably and fairly..live and learn

Im done with this now..its over..

Ren
 
No matter how you try to displace the truth, it is that I emailed you and stated that I wanted to purchase this knife from you, why would you send me your paypal account? Be truthful. I have been on other sites for years and know very well how things are as my collection has increased, if you want I could post the email I sent to you and yours to confirm what I am stating, the truth is you had a buyer and changed your wind about that buyer, admit it, maby your thinking that I work for the ATF, but please do not even try to dislodge the truth, Speak it and the lord will set you free.
 
That's about enough bickering...(This ISN'T "The Good, The Bad, The Ugly" forum!). The knife was sold. End of story.
 
Originally posted by ribbman
No matter how you try to displace the truth, it is that I emailed you and stated that I wanted to purchase this knife from you, why would you send me your paypal account? Be truthful. I have been on other sites for years and know very well how things are as my collection has increased, if you want I could post the email I sent to you and yours to confirm what I am stating, the truth is you had a buyer and changed your wind about that buyer, admit it, maby your thinking that I work for the ATF, but please do not even try to dislodge the truth, Speak it and the lord will set you free.
Click to expand...

Looks from this perspective that you say you said that you'd buy it, and he says that you said you wanted to discuss it.

If it's okay with Ren, I'd like to see that e-mail.
 
It is TGBU now.

Just some points on this one. I stress that in whatever I say I am NOT suggesting Ren has 'infringed'. There isn't enough detail provided to make a call on that anyway I think. At the same time, I for one wouldn't like to see anyone, new or otherwise, just be blown off. To reiterate though, I'm speaking generally, not specific to this instance.

As a matter of etiquette, I'd consider it more appropriate to give the first person in a fair chance before dealing with any other, even if a best bud you've bantered with in W&C many a time or whatever comes in soon after. A number of things might be involved in that and there would most often be questions of degree also. They should also be given a warning and a reasonable opportunity to respond, before moving on.

I would have thought a few hours at least would be reasonable - any snooze or lose notion would have to be pretty extreme otherwise. Particularly if it is an easily sold knife, there shouldn't be any problem with that. If there are concerns about the purchaser being new/unknown, well get assurances that would take that out of the equation, like being paid first for example. Overseas? Could do the same AND make it clear loss or other such hassle was their risk. Or, if you just insisted on that, they might be able to nominate someone in the US, to ship to and take things from there. Etc etc etc. All that sort of thing can be dealt with and it would be up to the purchaser, whether he/she was prepared to proceed on the stipulated basis.

I also think the significance of a form of words can be questionable. Some will be, some wont be, significant. Others will be 'grey'. If you aren't sure, email back and ask. Again I'd say a reasonable amount of time would be in order, to allow for a response.

The seller may not HAVE to do any of this, but if we are talking about etiquette, than I believe the above is both polite and fair.

I'll leave the religious implications to others better suited.
 
I posted the thoughts below on another thread and posted a link to them. It was pointed out to me that linking to this other forum was a no-no, so I am including them here.

Keith Montgomery posted in another thread.
It seems to me that there has been a misunderstanding between you and ribbman. He seems to think than in his first email to you he told you that he wanted to buy the knife and you say that he just wanted to discuss the possibility of buying it.

You did nothing wrong here, Ren. You were of the opinion that ribbman was in the inquiring mode and had not made a firm commitment to purchase the knife if payment could be worked out. When you got the firm offer to purchase the knife you, im my opinion, did the right thing in making the deal. "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush", as they say. It doesn't make any sense to reject an firm offer when you are not sure if the first person committed to making a deal.

I think the posts being made by ribbman are the result of his disappointment in not getting a knife that he really wanted. It is a shame, but if I really want something I tell the person that in my first communication with them. My email will say "I want the knife, what kind of payment will be acceptable?". Or if it's a knife I am interested in dickering on I will email " I would really like to purchase this knife if there is a little room for dickering on the price." You have to let a person know you are really serious with your first email or you should not get upset if the person does a deal with someone else.

In the long and short of it Ren, I don't think you were out of line at all. Your responses to him in the other thread were polite and respectful and now I think it is time for him to get over his disappointment and go on to the next deal.

What I really don't understand is ribmann's statement that because of how this deal has gone that he will do his knife buying on other forums from this point on. That seems to be cutting off your nose to spite your face, as far as I am concerned.
Click to expand...


It would be interesting to see why there is such a difference of opinion between Ren a ribbman as to ribbman's commitment to purchase in his original email to Ren.

Edited to add my quote.
 
Well I don't know Keith.

Argument by analogy has limitations, but this one isn't bad:

Say you were in a store, talking to the owner about X item and it was the only one left. It was clear from what you had said that you were interested, but you hadn't used the words "I will buy this". The owner's golf buddy walks in and there's a break in your conversation. The golf buddy plonks down cash for the item and the owner accepts.

Now at law, the owner could certainly do that. But how would you feel? Would you think the owner had acted politely and fairly?
 
I have to sympathize with both fellows, but if therewas not a FIRM
commitment, it is up for grabs. I sold a very nice pick-lock on a auction site,it went for alot of money, BUT I emailed the high bidder 4 times with no response at all. I see a lot of dealers complaining, rightfully about a$$holes bidding up knives and never going through with the deal. To make a long story short I sold it to a friend who
had offered a fair price but a hundred less. 7 days later I got a MO from the bidder. I felt bad and he was very pi$$ed sounded like he wanted to take me to court. There were no winners in this. I guess the moral to the story is you snooze you loose.If I am at a show and want a knife I do not put it down back on the table.
 
nifman as I've indicated, this SorL concept can't be unlimited, or it will get ridiculous, in my view. What is okay in this? Ten minutes? That would lead to a lot of ill-feeling, I'm quite sure.

Anyway...

I do find it a bit peculiar that this is being conducted as a side thread in W&C. That is not likely to generate unbiased comment, in the circumstances.
 
Here's some food for thoughts:

To the buyers: The rules here are simple; if you are interested in a knife, say so....you are not the only one behind the line. Not sure? ask for some time to think it over, a day or 2 is sufficient...not a week or a month to be fair to the seller. Can't afford it now? Come clean and be heard..."thank you, maybe next time." Let the seller know you can't have email access at all times if that is the case, don't keep them guessing.

To sellers: First come first serve is the basis. If the knife is an easy mover then money is not a factor to displace etiquette. If the buyer is a newbie like in this case, ask for more info and credibility. Do't want to sell outside of US? State so in your for sale thread, safe the hassle of last minute surprises.

Eric.
 
Ren, IMO you acted properly. I had a similar situation occur w/one of the knives I recently sold on BFC. An established BFC member made an inquiry and then I heard nothing for over an hour, in the mean time an offer came from another person for the knife. Mind you I didn't say inquiry, but an offer just as in your case. I jumped on the offer and emailed the first person that it was gone. He said no biggie as he was an established member and understood how things operate in the real world. This ribbman is way out of line, I wouldn't give it another thought. ABTW for a "Devils Trail Boss" you handled this very delicately.
 
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