Out of the Box Sharpness Doesn't Matter?

[me2]

I will offer the following ibservations regarding ootb edges. It eventually has to be sharpened. If the edge is well formed with even bevels of consistent angle, that makes life much easier. I got a Cold Steel Kudu once that had a 1" section with a more obtuse angle. It took about a month to rebevel and sharpen the whole edge to match. I'd much rather the edge be uniform and even than sharp. That said, it should cut paper.

Someone mentioned this above, but I'd like an option to buy a knife unsharpened. I almost always have to rebevel them anyway. Just leave them unsharpened, with a flat on the edge, and let me do it the way I want. No more wonky bevels that I have to even out, big burrs to remove, excess steel loss from factory sharpeners getting a bit overzealous, compounded by me rebeveling and removung even more steel. Its not for everyone, but knock $10 off the price, or even $5, and let me do it if I want. Were I to order a knife from a maker here, thats exactly what I'd do.

Edit to add: you're more likely to cut yourself with a sharp knife. You're more likely to cut yourself badly with a dull one. I've cut myself many times where I just take the callous off a finger pad or knuckle, or just graze the skin and get a tiny line of blood thats healed the next day. Low force, high control, juuust a bit off.

 

[Lapedog]

Sharpness expectations should be related to price too. A $ 1-50 knife is just getting run thru a machine (usually) to sharpen the blade. You can't realistically expect much time or effort put into sharpening with a *budget* knife. Too much machine time, hand time, or sharping steps would add to the cost.

Bark River I know sharpens by hand, but your at the $180-300 range now. I would expect a Chris Reeve knife to be sharp for $400+. I would expect a $1000+ custom to cut like a hot knife thru butta.

You would think so but for some odd reason some of my cheaper knives, particularly the ones out of China have come with absolute laser beam sharp edges way beyond what I have gotten in more expensive knives. CRKs for example in my experience often come not that sharp despite the little warning in the box that says the knife is extremely sharp.

I have so far owned three CRKs and two of them came decently sharp but nothing spectacular. Only one (my large 21) came very sharp. This is already taking into account that CRKs come with convex edges which tend to not feel very sharp on the thumb but can be deceptively sharp. That wasn’t the case here.

That got me wondering why is my 30$ Chinese wonder comes with a better edge than so many of my more expensive ones. It made me wonder, maybe because wages are so much lower in China they can afford to pay people to spend more time sharpening. Just a theory.

 

[Franciscomv]

Unlike Reitwagen, I don't mind sounding like a condescending old phart.
Stop whining. You are a knife knut, sharpen the knife and go enjoy it.
I've been using knives since the late 60's. Pocket knives to modern knives, production knives don't come sharp. Usable yes, sharp no.

First define sharp, is sharp defined by my standards or your standards. Is sharp 20dps or 15 dps, 320 grit belt finish or mirror polished. Different steels and different uses require a different edge finish.

How is a maker supposed to know what you want.
Victorinox has been mentioned a couple times as being sharp out of the box. I disagree usable yes, sharp no.

As long as it has an even bevel and something close to 20 dps also known as usable.
I'll take it from there.
I'm a knife knut I sharpen.

Car analogy that might apply, I expect oil in my average production car. I don't expect expensive synthetic oil.

I'm fine with getting a "usable" edge on my knives and tweaking it to my liking later. However, some brands ship BLUNT knives. I have several Queen folders with blades that had no edge whatsoever (and these were very nice, certainly not "budget" knives). Having to grind D2 is not something the end user should be expected to do.

Even if fixing a relatively dull knife is easy (not always the case with some modern alloys), that doesn't mean that it's fine for a company to ship unsharpened knives.

In my opinion, a simple tool should he able to serve its intended purpose right out of the box.

 

[MSchott]

You are far more likely to cut yourself with a dull blade.
A sharp knife is always safer than a dull one. With a sharp knife it takes less pressure to make the cut.

I have not yet had a knife I bought be that dull. Once again, how do we define sharp?

 

[Sergeua]

You are far more likely to cut yourself with a dull blade.
A sharp knife is always safer than a dull one. With a sharp knife it takes less pressure to make the cut.

You made me realize i should have ended my sentence with "if you know what I mean"

Thank you,

 

[22-rimfire]

^^^^^^^
FWIW, only 1 out of the 7 Benchmades I bought in the last 2 months didn't have a perfect edge. That knife was near perfect with a wire edge on about 1/4 of the blade. I bought it anyway because it was a first production #2/1200. I bought other brands too, and all of them would cut hairs. Most of them cost under $175.

The 2/1200 sounds like a Mini Presidio II. Mine is #669/1200 (or that is standard for Benchmade first production?). The edge on mine is nearly perfect and razor sharp from the factory.

 

[Torrin]

The 2/1200 sounds like a Mini Presidio II. Mine is #669/1200 (or that is standard for Benchmade first production?). The edge on mine is nearly perfect and razor sharp from the factory.

I don't know about all the past changes, but this year #/1200 on folders and #/700 on fixed. The #2 is an assisted Vector 495, love it!

 

[Torrin]

I have not yet had a knife I bought be that dull. Once again, how do we define sharp?

I think we can generalize about the meaning of sharp as much as the author does with the article. I think the article may have an indistinct purpose of driving traffic...
I think we all agree that we have our own tastes about what is expected, and what is acceptable for our sharp edged tools factory new. The main driving factor really is price point and what the finished product says about different companies in general price points.
I would note also, that the author is seriously addressing "knife nuts" with his article, and myth conspiracy. I would consider a knife nut to be someone who is educated well enough to judge if in fact a knife is delivered meeting acceptable q.c. standards including sharpness based on steel quality. Though, I can't think of too many steels used for making knives that can't be sharpened enough to cut paper without jerking. Therefore the sharpness of the edge as delivered factory new (*collectors) dictates not the quality of the tool, but the quality of the company.

 

[Petunia D. Feeble]

http://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/04/23/myth-box-sharpness/

More click bait from alloutdoor.com

"One old saw you will read and hear across the Internet Knife Community (IKC) is the notion that out of the box sharpness matters. In reality, it matters only very little, and certainly not in the way that most folks think."
Who says? How many of you aren't discouraged when you get a new knife, and it struggles cutting paper. To me it would be unfinished and leaves me wondering how much a company cares about it's product.
I would instead flip his theory on it's head. Specialty tools may not be fully sharpened when received and it is usally expected. Axes are generally not shaving sharp when purchased new but many could be.

Generally speaking I don't care how sharp they are. They're very rarely sharp enough that I don't resharpen them. I'm more concerned with the consistency of the bevel than the overall sharpness.

 

[Alberta Ed]

Most of the last dozen or so knives I've bought have come damned sharp -- hair-popping or close to it. Then I make them sharper.

 

[danbot]

I think we can generalize about the meaning of sharp as much as the author does with the article. I think the article may have an indistinct purpose of driving traffic...
I think we all agree that we have our own tastes about what is expected, and what is acceptable for our sharp edged tools factory new. The main driving factor really is price point and what the finished product says about different companies in general price points.
I would note also, that the author is seriously addressing "knife nuts" with his article, and myth conspiracy. I would consider a knife nut to be someone who is educated well enough to judge if in fact a knife is delivered meeting acceptable q.c. standards including sharpness based on steel quality. Though, I can't think of too many steels used for making knives that can't be sharpened enough to cut paper without jerking. Therefore the sharpness of the edge as delivered factory new (*collectors) dictates not the quality of the tool, but the quality of the company.

Yes. Total BS. There is no "myth" about sharp edges. Like anyone really thinks the knife is garbage because it wasn't sharpened to expectations from the factory.
**** happens!

 

[miso2]

For those owning a CRK knife or knives, did you consider their factory edge good enough?
I did not.

I am just curious how differently people perceive a CRK edge, assuming that they put similar edges across.

 

[ponykid]

A question like this being asked of "knife nuts" is gonna get predictable answers similar to if you go to a car enthusiasts forum and ask how they feel about buying a car with a completely stock engine in it.

I have received knives directly from a maker with a butter knife dull edge and I have to say I take offense to it as it is to me a literal
"I don't give a crap" message from the maker. whether its a mass production knife or a custom if it arrives dull it usually means they have become so busy or overwhelmed that they cant produce quality anymore and are just shoving the stuff out the door as fast as possible to make a buck which is very distasteful to me.

Can I sharpen a knife? yes but I am a complete novice and it takes me a long time to figure out a particular knifes edge geometry and such so I don't always enjoy it though it must be done sooner or later. for me when a knife I buy comes with the correct edge and a sharpened edge its also much easier for me to maintain the edge .

there really is no excuse for a new knife arriving dull. other than a lack of respect for the buyer .

 

[22-rimfire]

There is no "myth" about sharp edges. Like anyone really thinks the knife is garbage because it wasn't sharpened to expectations from the factory.

Whether I might consider a knife garbage depends entirely on the price and manufacturer relative to factory sharpness. Generally speaking, some of the sharpest factory edges are on the inexpensive knives. They generally just don't hold an edge well with use.

 

[BellaBlades]

As long as the grind is close to even, im happy.
But the sharper the better.

 

[danbot]

Whether I might consider a knife garbage depends entirely on the price and manufacturer relative to factory sharpness. Generally speaking, some of the sharpest factory edges are on the inexpensive knives. They generally just don't hold an edge well with use.

So if it's an expensive knife with great materials like say, M390 steel that is heat treated excellently, but it failed to get an acceptably sharp edge from the factory, you would consider that knife to be garbage?

 

[Mo2]

Knives occasionally get missed. It doesn't mean it's not a bad knife though.

 

[22-rimfire]

Nope. Add "materials" to my list. I don't generally use the term "garbage" relative to knives although if I look at somebody's $8 Frost slippie.... I lean toward just saying it's a cheap knife. Takes experience to make that determination. Takes all kinds to make the world go around.

 

[Torrin]

I assume on premium tools that they will come as they are meant to perform. A bad edge tells me a company is not good for me because I wonder what else in their manufacturing is questionable to my novice eye, including service.
That's why I stopped buting Taurus pistols. Taurus does ok with their bread and butter pistols but strugles with things like the 1911 pattern where tolerance stacking will bite you quick with failures and is not always an easy fix when many parts are on the edges of acceptable. On the 1911's they throw some bells and whilstles on the product that a machine can do to hide their lack of precision in other more important areas that may recquire human attention.
What bothers me is you have to become somewhat educated on the product to really see this, and I believe they and other companies take advantage of this lack of education of a product.

 

[ShannonSteelLabs]

Being a maker, a knife must be sharp.
Its a knife, its supposed to cut. If its not sharp how will it do its job?

I do expect factory knives to be sharp, but i can resharpen them without issue. And i understand that some people may not be able to sharpen them.

As for the knives i make, i sharpen them to the best of my ability. I have a standard edge that i use for all my knives. Which is 600 grit edge buffed and lightly stropped on diamond compound. Some knives are screaming sharp right off the buffing wheel after 2 compunds (white then green) and i will leave it as is. Others may need touching up on the strops. This usually gets them extremely sharp. If i feel the need to go totally insane i will use diamond emulsion strops to get them stupid sharp. They must cut printer paper, phone book paper and shave before leaving the shop.

On rare occasions i will have a request for a mirrored edge. In which i will do my best to do. Some steels take it easily, some dont. There is a limit though. I will try my best to get a full mirror. But if i spend too much time i will leave it at good enough. One particular time i spent 8 hours trying to get a knife in 3V perfectly mirror polished (6inch blade tanto). That wasnt totally perfect mirror but it was very close and absolutely STUPID sharp. 8 hours of sharpening over 2 days is downright insane.

Long story short, yes they must be sharp out of box.