Out of the Box Sharpness Doesn't Matter?

Torrin said:
I assume on premium tools that they will come as they are meant to perform. A bad edge tells me a company is not good for me because I wonder what else in their manufacturing is questionable to my novice eye, including service.
That's why I stopped buting Taurus pistols. Taurus does ok with their bread and butter pistols but strugles with things like the 1911 pattern where tolerance stacking will bite you quick with failures and is not always an easy fix when many parts are on the edges of acceptable. On the 1911's they throw some bells and whilstles on the product that a machine can do to hide their lack of precision in other more important areas that may recquire human attention.
What bothers me is you have to become somewhat educated on the product to really see this, and I believe they and other companies take advantage of this lack of education of a product.
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I do feel that companies take advantage of less educated or experienced buyers and users whether it be with knives, camping gear, or firearms. With guns, when I was much younger, I didn't understand why brand X can be so much more expensive than brand Y. We can be pretty knowledgeable about one kind of product and be a total idiot on another. I pretty much believe that sharpness is a defining characteristic of the manufacturer/maker in terms of their product line. The edge sharpness on Queen knives (for example) was and is a defining characteristic when choosing one. Benchmades and Spydies are typically scary sharp out of the box.
 
As long as the edge grind is even, I really don't care.
It really bothers me if it's dull and has a bad grind.
 
That's why I really respect Spyderco. I have never received a Spyderco that wasn't incredibly sharp. I am sure some could pipe in and tell us about a Spyderco they got with a not so good edge but on the whole I think you can expect a razor edge on a Spyderco.

I can see how a maker can only devote so much time to sharpening if they are a small shop . I will agree through the learning process myself that different steels produce different results edge wise for sure!!! I have driven myself nuts with S30V that wasn't heat treated correctly . also I discovered with S30v that sometimes you really do have to get through the initial edge sharpening down to the "good " steel before you stop getting carbide tear out and chipping. I spent hours and hours on one knife from a custom maker before I got a solid edge on it with no chips. Its why I have started zeroing in on the steels I know I can easily sharpen myself with my novice clamp system. and I can say I stay away from S30V and S90V now!! . Perception can play a big role as well.
when I received a Brous Blades silent soldier neck knife at first I was not impressed because the super thick geometry threw me off and I saw it as less than stellar sharpness wise. But I figured out how to improve the edge and I love it now. But its not a slicer and pales in comparison to a Spyderco PM2 with a flat grind. Did it mean that Brous Blades doesn't give a crap? no in that case it was different edge geometry that I wasn't accustom to . The knife was sharp just no in the way I was used to .
 
Dean51 said:
Unlike Reitwagen, I don't mind sounding like a condescending old phart.
Stop whining. You are a knife knut, sharpen the knife and go enjoy it.
I've been using knives since the late 60's. Pocket knives to modern knives, production knives don't come sharp. Usable yes, sharp no.

First define sharp, is sharp defined by my standards or your standards. Is sharp 20dps or 15 dps, 320 grit belt finish or mirror polished. Different steels and different uses require a different edge finish.

How is a maker supposed to know what you want.
Victorinox has been mentioned a couple times as being sharp out of the box. I disagree usable yes, sharp no.

As long as it has an even bevel and something close to 20 dps also known as usable.
I'll take it from there.
I'm a knife knut I sharpen.

Car analogy that might apply, I expect oil in my average production car. I don't expect expensive synthetic oil.
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To sound condescending right back, you're talking about edge angle and geometry, which is peripherally related to sharpness at best. Sharpness is about apex, and a 40 DPS knife can quite easily be sharper than a 10 DPS knife.
 
This might sound crazy but my collection started due to the fact I had no sharpening tools and simply bought a new knife when I wanted something razor sharp. Out of the box sharpness mattered to me, and I figured it would to many other novice non-knife people.

I recently got a knife sharpener, sharpened all my old knives to hair popping sharpness and then just got lost in this hobby of collecting and tripled my collection anyways over a few months.

I recently returned a Benchmade Bugout out of principle for having a the sharpness of a butter knife out of the box.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
To sound condescending right back, you're talking about edge angle and geometry, which is peripherally related to sharpness at best. Sharpness is about apex, and a 40 DPS knife can quite easily be sharper than a 10 DPS knife.
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The devils in the details. I think we mean the same thing, we're just just saying it a bit differently. ;)
All I'm saying is a knife should be usable out of the box.
Out of the box a knife should have a working apex, edge, or how ever you want to describe it. I simply call it usable. Nice fairly even bevels and sharp enough to cut. Nothing more than that.
Beyond that It's the customer who needs to refine the apex/edge/bevel that he or she wants or needs.
 
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miso2 said:
For those owning a CRK knife or knives, did you consider their factory edge good enough?
I did not.

I am just curious how differently people perceive a CRK edge, assuming that they put similar edges across.
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I have a Large and Small 21 from 2017 that both came extremely sharp from CRK. I also purchased a very sharp Large 21 right after a spa treatment; it had a factory edge for sure, but I’m not sure it was the original factory edge.

Regarding the comment by P ponykid my Spydercos have been very-sharp to insanely-sharp out of the box. One of my insanely sharp original edges chipped pretty easily though. (It’s been fine since I worked it over.)
 
You should be able to buy a knife on the way to the woods and actually be able to use it.

If you fly across the country (or to a different one), you should be able to go buy a knife there, and be able to use it for knife tasks without buying a sharpener.

Manufacturers and makers who put out knives with crappy, dull edges are just being lazy.
Let's call it like it is.
They are selling you a knife without bothering to finish the job of making it ready for use.
 
I can see if the knife doesn't come at the level of insane sharpness that some obsessive folks on these forums want, but if it cannot cut rope, paper, open packages and cut food, then it sucks.

Of course, for you folks who really want it your way, I have a 4 foot length of 5160 steel I can sell you for $500.
Think of it as a sword that you just have to customize the way you want!
Just think, you'll get the handle you want, the blade shape...even the heat treat will be just the way you want. ;)
 
MSchott said:
I have not yet had a knife I bought be that dull. Once again, how do we define sharp?
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Oh, I have.
Wouldn't cut paper AT ALL.
I could run my thumb the whole length of the blade with pretty high pressure applied; no getting cut.
My wife thought it was pretty funny that I paid that money to get a knife that wouldn't cut. :D
 
If it's a custom knife then it should always come sharp. Otherwise it tells me something about that maker. Also, knives should not need a major reprofile from opening. I can understand needing a touch up, but if the angle is off and needing major reprofiling, then it is indeed unacceptable in my estimations.
 
A lot of knife enthusiasts are very fickle. They will buy a knife, use it for a little while, then sell it and buy something else. If the new knife they bought is sharp they can use it for awhile and not need to sharpen it. If they have to sharpen it right away then that affects the resale value.

I'm in the middle- I will sharpen my knives when they need it. I like for a knife to have a good edge out of the box but I don't worry if it is sharp or really sharp.
 
T.L.E. Sharp said:
Generally speaking I don't care how sharp they are. They're very rarely sharp enough that I don't resharpen them. I'm more concerned with the consistency of the bevel than the overall sharpness.
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This is exactly how I feel to. A consistent and well ground edge bevel makes getting the knife truly sharp worlds easier.

There are some knives that I get that are very easy to sharpen up into a beast. Others that seem nearly impossible. (My sharpening skill isn’t great)

What determines that seems to be how jacked up or good the out of the box edge is.
 
Torrin said:
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/04/23/myth-box-sharpness/

More click bait from alloutdoor.com

"One old saw you will read and hear across the Internet Knife Community (IKC) is the notion that out of the box sharpness matters. In reality, it matters only very little, and certainly not in the way that most folks think."
Who says? How many of you aren't discouraged when you get a new knife, and it struggles cutting paper. To me it would be unfinished and leaves me wondering how much a company cares about it's product.
I would instead flip his theory on it's head. Specialty tools may not be fully sharpened when received and it is usally expected. Axes are generally not shaving sharp when purchased new but many could be.
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The way he caved in miserably to Microtech's lawsuit threats does not make him an inspiring source... And his article is in true form: Manufacturer-excusing nonsense, referring to tools and practices completely unrelated to knives, or current production abilities.

The user sometimes makes a last minute purchase before going into a jungle excursion, and does not always have the time or the tools to prepare the blade: I went into the woods once with a hastily purchased SOG Jungle Warrior: I tried but did not have the time or tools to sharpen this junk (having a coarse diamond hone at the time would certainly have helped): It ended up costing me a trip to the hospital: Terminally dull knives do flick back from failing to cut some devious branches... Just one of a thousand ways dull knives are dangerous.

It is true Randalls come in dull, but they are thin edged and hollow ground, which combines to make them easy to sharpen.

He claims never to have encountered a knife that could not be sharpened: "If the final grind so bad, so uneven, that no amount of honing at home can get a reasonable edge on the knife, then it is a bigger problem, but in nearly a decade of systematically reviewing knives I have yet to get a knife with an edge this bad"

He does not define to what standard makers have never failed him in this way... The reality is several custom makers like edges so thick the things are basically wall hangers without a complete blade re-grind: The current licensed custom Lile "homages" are very much like that.

And thus he makes no mention in his article of the basic issue of edge thickness, which is not something the user can easily fix... This article is drivel, pure and simple.

Gaston
 
The only thing that matters to me on a new knife is whether or not the bevels are even and fairly close to my desired edge angle. I don't even really care if it will cut anything because I'm just going to sharpen it immediately anyway, but if the bevels are uneven then it's going to take me a long time to fix them during the first reprofiling and sharpening.
 
To me it just goes to the overall quality of the knife. Sure I can sharpen it, I got a lot of bucks invested in stones, sharpmakers, strops, etc. However if a knife came to me dull out of the box, I would wonder what else they cut the corner on? Is the handle put on badly, etc. What am I paying for if it's not a finished knife.
 
Well I'm not going to read the article, but the quoted part was that being sharp out of the box matters only a little. Which doesn't mean not at all.
The replies are an interesting contrast to the J-knife world. For Japanese kitchen knives, there is an expectation that the customer will finish sharpening to their taste. They knives can be used ootb, but usually aren't razors. Putting in new bevels or even thinning aren't uncommon.
I'm more concerned about good profile, even grind, and good heat treat. I do think some of this depends on the intended market though. Sharpening is no longer a common skill.
 
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