Over-Under Gun advice for my girlfriend

A pistol might be a better option. .357 with an 8" barrel can be used for hunting as well as defense. May take a little more training, but sounds like you have the time. Resting on a forearm or tree limb or log she should do well. Women seem to be natural shooters. Not great for small game, but takes care of some of the weight and size issues.
Terry
 
Some one may have mentioned it, but I am pretty dang sure that that stoeger condor does not have a barrel selector.
 
A pistol is NOT an option in Canada as they can only be carried to and from a gun range and home again- otherwise I would agree with you guys. I guess we'll see what she feels most comfortable with after trying a bunch of different things out- thanks for all of the imput. Another reason for the gun is she will want to get her share of the food as well (fresh meat tastes best) and she hates fishing and fish in general.
 
CUTS LIKE A KRIS said:
Is a month in the kayak that big of a concern for rust. I have been out with a gun for a couple of weeks (in the case most of the time) and no rust problems. The chosen gun will probably be stored with the kayak until she gets separated from the rest of us- but the idea for the smaller gun is for her comfort- she is very practical and not squeamish about shooting, gutting etc. just not as experienced as I would like.

Dave- why do you feel that she does not need on in the first place?

Thanks for all of the responses so far and keep them coming all.
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Wipe some CLP on the metal, I have found that does an excellent job of inbiting rust and even removing light oxydation. Put CLP on a rag, rub it on. Make sure she brings a cleaning kit, wipe run a patch or two down the bore every so often, CLP the external metal, you should be good.
 
My advice is to use what duck hunters use on the water, a pump shotgun. The 870 express comes to mind for a good beater shotgun that is easy and quick to clean if it goes in the drink or sand and mud. "Always" keep it in a simple drybag and "Always" lashed securely to the Kayak or Canoe.

Stay away from the O/U's around water and sludge because they are a royal pain to clean up. They must be completely taken down and that includes the lockworks in the stock.
 
C.L.A.K.

What river are you planning on travelling? Liard? Nahanni?

My thought is that a single shot .12 ga will be the easiest to carry for the group of you. Slugs or 00 if needed, or 4 shot for the odd goose, maybe 7 1/2 if you can find some grouse or ptarmigan.

Just thinking about the weight and the real probablility that you might not even fire the thing. Also, you can buy a beater of a gun for not very much cash.

Cheers,
D
 
CUTS LIKE A KRIS said:
Dave- why do you feel that she does not need on in the first place?

.
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Sir, that's not what I said. Here are a couple of my key sentences:


The FIRST thing a gun has to do is, be carried by the person who's taking it.

This might be asking too much for someone not all that interested in guns. (and who probably doesn't even see the need to have her own in the first place.)

If she doesn't want to carry one, then all of this is for naught. If she's like many women, they don't feel that THEY need to carry one......you have YOURS, after all.........:rolleyes: Trying to make her understand that things may not go as planned might be impossible.

I didn't say there WASN'T a need, only that she may not be able, or willing, to see it.

This all comes down to the woman in question. DOES she see a need or not? Does she already shoot or not? If so, does she already have a preference? If so, then why not go with that?

If she does not shoot (much or at all) but is willing to learn, that's another can of worms entirely. If you want a chance at succeeding in this, you need to keep one principle first and foremost: Keep it fun! (for HER, not necessarily for you!)

A very big part of keeping it fun is to keep it simple. Handing her a multi-caliber folding/breakdown long gun with 6 kinds of ammo is going to get you either a blank look or the dreaded "are you really THAT stupid?" look we've all seen too many times. :D

Based on the foregoing, if you want more than a .22 (which is better than nothing, but not ideal) then I'd suggest a Marlin lever action in .357 magnum. Pick your ammo well and she will have fun and be able to survive any likely circumstance. Plus, it has the innocuous "Old West" look which works in your favor.

I'd suggest maybe two loads: full power .357 magnum soft points for bear (or whatever) and some .38 jacketed roundnose for small game. These are easy to tell apart and would fulfill their role as intended. The ammo is still compact and even the full power loads wouldn't kick enough in that gun to ruin the "fun factor" of it all. And those 130 grain FMJ .38's would kick like a .22.........buy extra boxes of that one.

Keep us posted !!

.
 
in case she gets separated from the rest of the group.
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What is the point in giving your friend a gun when adult humans can survive easily for more than three weeks without food?

How about getting a good set of radios and a 406mhz PLB so that she can be found within a day if she gets separated.

Its only common sense mate.
 
Let's see, you're not worried about bears,kids, if any are coming with,
you want her to help share in the "collection of food" or "if she gets seperated from the goup";);).
In all the years I've spent out in the wilds, no one has ever been seperated:confused: If you want to by your girl a gun, fine, but aren't over and unders a bit spendy for a canoe trip? Get her a cheap .410 and hope to kriste she never needs to use it.:thumbup:
 
OK guys some clarification. She is a woods girl- not afraid of shooting or pulling her own weight in any manner (her knife/chopper collection will beat most other collections in quality). She is not squeamish- she lived 10 years in the arctic where hunting is a daily activity for many Inuit. I am doing this WITH her imput- not telling her what she has to do. Heck- she was the one who choose to get both of us our un/restricted licenses on her birthday! She feels more comfortable if she has a gun with her. There will probably be 1 canoe, and 1-2 Kayaks. Every person will be outfitted to survive independently- nobody can say that separations have never happened in the history of water travel. What if something happens to the canoe and (forbid) she is the only one not swept away- A 2 way radio will do her no good if we are in the boonies and she is the only one left alive or uninjured. It seems like some did not read where I said after we get the materials is the practice stage so we all get comfortable with ALL of our gear. I am NOT going to give her a gun the day we leave and say "this is what you are going to have". Seems like a bit of male centric attitude is prevailing this thread- remember that some women like the same things that we do!!! I am surprised with the lack of faith in having a kayak fitted with a gun in this subforum as I constantly read where people have a survival kit stashed in every nook & cranny that they can, people are worried about cutting their way out of buildings with their folders, etc. but a gun for a girl brings out some of these responses. It is not just me- she has been reading this thread too and can't fathom the negativity surrounding it. Rant off now.

Thanks to everybody who has added their input into as to WHAT GUN you feel would be best. I had an opinion based on what I felt would be best, but have no experience with the over/under. Now I can start to see some of the negatives- heavier, harder to clean, slow to reload, expensive.
Positives- More choice of what to shoot(shotgun choices + rifle choices), compact, easy to load properly.

We have not decided anything yet but we will take all of your opinions in mind.
Keep em coming guys.
 
jh205 said:
What is the point in giving your friend a gun when adult humans can survive easily for more than three weeks without food?
Its only common sense mate.
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But common sense isn't common any more:D. I agree that one can survive 3 weeks without food but easily??? Can you say you have gone that long without eating and it was easy? Under stressful conditions? It can happen but is it not common sense that survival is easier with a good way to get nutrition? We are planning on making worst case scenarios a bit better here- not going Bear Grylls and drinking fecal matter.
 
Thanks for the info on the type of girl she is. Sounds like you got a keeper !!

As far as a shotgun goes, you listed some of the negatives, but some more: Shotgun ammo is bulky, heavy and NOT VERY WATERPROOF.

I am all for a person, male or female, being self sufficient in the wild up to and including defense. In fact, the defense aspect in many ways should be considered first. For example, a take-down gun in a case is worthless for defense. A .22 excells as a game getter, but not so much for defense.

(when I say "defense" I'm not referring to rogue bears or rabid skunks (altho they exist) but mainly defense from other PEOPLE that intend harm.)

In this regard, the Marlin Lever action .357 has much to offer. It holds 10 shots, is self contained (no magazines to lose or forget) has sufficient power but it still easy to shoot well. With two diferent loads, it'll handle anything from cottontail to bear.

.
 
When I said "easily", I meant it more in the sense of it being unlikely you'll die in the three week period, rather than it being a comfortable experience. I haven't tried it, but I'm sure you'd get damn hungry.

If you have to take a gun you're probably best off with a reliable pump action like a Remington 870, with a range of birdshot, buckshot and slugs.

But honestly, if you are going into genuinely remote areas you should first invest in a
406mhz personal locator beacon. With one of these you are essentially guaranteed to be rescued within about a day, regardless of where you are. To my mind there is simply no excuse for not having a PLB when travelling in seriously remote wilderness areas.
 
I am unfamiliar with PLB's- do you just turn it on when lost? Is it a subscription service that works off of satellite? Work in places like the Arctic where Satellite phones are hit and miss?
 
PLB's are definitely great if you can afford the somewhat high price. If you are going to be lost in a remote area, they are absolutely the best chance you have of being rescued.

As to the original question, I think a shotgun would be the best survival (food gathering) firearm if weight is not an issue. If weight is an issue, then I think a .22 rifle would be my choice for food gathering (because the ammo is so light and you can carry so much of it).

However, I personally think if a situation should arise where you absolutely *need* a firearm, it would more likely be a self defense situation (bears, humans, whatever) rather then a situation where you will starve if you do not harvest game. With this in mind, I'd recommend a caliber stout enough to handle bear. A .12 gauge shotgun or .44 lever action would be good choices.

Edit: Here is some PLB information

http://www.equipped.com/plb_legal.htm
 
I have a rossi triple play single shot combo that I have taken kayaking. It is a youth model with barrels in .22/20g/243. I can pick and chose what barrels to take. I put peep sights on the rear and elevated front sights on front to match. I went with a rossi because nef didnt offer a rimfire-centerfire combo at the time. I have been very pleased with the overall performance.

There are other companys that offer combo overunders. Remington was importing some from Turkey I think and CZ makes a very nice one. I almost bought aCZ in 12g/30-06. I regret not doing so because i havent seen one since.

If I were going kayaking in the yukon I would be armed no question.

matt
 
Get a .22 rifle. She can practice with it and for very little money, become deadly with it.

You'll be eating well on what she shoots. Bring lots of aluminum foil, onions, garlic powder and some vegetable oil. Wrap up the birds you shoot in the foil, along with some onion, salt, garlic powder and a dash of vegetable oil, and bake 'em in the coals. It's done, when you see a wisp of smoke come out.
 
Keep in mind that 12 gauge shotgun ammo weighs over an ounce a shell. A bulky box of 25 will weigh around 2.5 lbs.

Also keep in mind that an 870, while a great gun, is heavy.

Whatever the long gun choice, I suggest getting a sling for it. She'll appreciate i should she need to carry it any distance.

A .44 lever action is another choice, but for many, it kicks too much to be fun and the small game potential is mostly lost.

.
 
I think a cheap single shot 20 gauge like a NEF with the barrel cut down to 20" and rifle sights installed would be perfect. Chris
 
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