Over-Under Gun advice for my girlfriend

runningboar said:
I think a cheap single shot 20 gauge like a NEF with the barrel cut down to 20" and rifle sights installed would be perfect. Chris
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I have actually seen some pretty cool SBS'es that Canadians are able to make and buy, without the tax issues we have to deal with down here in the US. I know at least some of them are unrestricted, because the owners had put them together just for this purpose- to be a handy camp gun/ trail gun that was versatile. That might be a direction to look into as well.
 
jh205 said:
What is the point in giving your friend a gun when adult humans can survive easily for more than three weeks without food?

How about getting a good set of radios and a 406mhz PLB so that she can be found within a day if she gets separated.
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I'm not familiar with the Search and Rescue assests in Canada let alone the Yukon but expecting to be rescued in a day just because you activated your PLB is foolish. Depending on how remote you are it may take three to four days just to reach your position. Anybody venturing into the wilderness needs to be prepeared and capable of surviving until help arrives. PLBs are a useful peice of equipment and I would agree it is a good idea to carry one, but it should never be relied upon to save you.

Secondly "surviving" three weeks without food is something of a misnomer. That number was most likely derived from an experimant conducted under ideal conditions. It is possible to survive that long or longer but in most survival situations a great deal of energy is required to perform the tasks necessary to build shelter, gather water, and build/maintain a fire. Additionally if the weather is crappy the body needs fuel to produce heat. While food procurement is not critical in the short term it will become important as the length of time required to survive increases. Also the impact on moral of having a hot meal can not be discounted.

I have no advice to offer on gun choices however if it is something she wants then right on!
 
I would second the lever action rifle. Lightweight, compact, not too much recoil, and it will fit in the storage compartment in front of the bow bulkhead. It should will slide in and out at an angle. (At least in my 17' sea kayak, it works that way.) Bear (pun?!) in mind that some of the rifles/shotguns you list might not do that. DO NOT lash it to the top of the boat. If you want something on top, it needs to be the spare breakdown paddle, map, and compass. Too many things happen on top as the bow is washed over with water, wind blows across the top, high center of gravity with the weight, etc.

If you store it in a drybag (yes, you should) then pick up a pack or two of dessicant (sp?).

The lever action will do fine for hunting, self defense, etc. David E is right about the .357 being a good cartridge as long as you choose the ammunition wisely.

Enjoy yourself!

(Also, it may be the law in CA but if not, add flares to each member of the party. Flares AND Storm whistles.)

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Well, how about taking a 406mhz PLB and a dozen plastic jars of peanut butter. It may not be what they do in the movies, but if you're lost or you've fallen out of the kayak and you're soaking wet and cold, I'd rather have a jar of peanut butter to tuck into than literally having to go on a "wild goose chase".
 
I think Winchester makes a lever action that shoots 410 shot shells, it might shoot 45 long colt also.
 
No, it does NOT shoot .45 Colt !!!!

It's called the 9410 and I think it's been discontinued.

.
 
David E said:
No, it does NOT shoot .45 Colt !!!!

It's called the 9410 and I think it's been discontinued.

.
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All production of the Model 94 has indeed ceased. That being said, there are still guns available on many retailers' shelves. Eventually, someone will pay the license fee and start making them (94s) again.

The suggestion is a decent one. Slug loads for the .410 approximate the .41 Magnum, which is no slouch itself. Rabbits and other small game also can be taken with .410.

Rick
 
RescueRiley said:
if I was going to go with a combogun I'd go with the savage 24f in .22lr over 20 guage....22 is a great game getter but the 20 is pretty good for protection
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+1 on that.

If you aren't totally stuck on the shotgun part, consider the Marlin Papoose. It is stainless, breaks down, fits in it's own case which also floats and would be considerably lighter than the Savage.

Rob
 
rbmcmjr said:
All production of the Model 94 has indeed ceased. That being said, there are still guns available on many retailers' shelves. Eventually, someone will pay the license fee and start making them (94s) again.

The suggestion is a decent one. Slug loads for the .410 approximate the .41 Magnum, which is no slouch itself. Rabbits and other small game also can be taken with .410.

Rick
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.410 slug performance is questionable. The projectiles are less than 100 grains. With a full choke and 3" 6 shot, .410 is formidible for squirrels.

The Winchester only accepted 2.5" shells. For huntng, you really want 3" shells in a .410- the extra shot gives you some extra range.
 
The .410 brings back the objections to shotgun ammo in the first place. Primarily, bulk and lack of being waterproof.

.410's don't have much range and I still think a .357 lever gun would be a perfect arm in this case.

.
 
I don't think an 870 in 20 gauge weighs that much- the youth version seems pretty light weight. Bird shot makes it easier for a novice to collect game. Just another idea.

If it was me, and know how to shoot decently, I would go with what is suggested by many a 357 rifle with the right loads. Small game handled by the 38 if needed, and 357 out of a RIFLE barrel picks up velocity- approaches 30-30. If I couldn't carry a pistol I would probably carry this because of versatility, while still having the capacity to carry a decent amount of ammo while not being weighed down.

Maybe a 357 handgun if worried about defense when away from your longgun. If you can have a handgun.

I have always heard that the papoose is the better gun between the AR-7. I have shot a papoose but not an AR-7. These are stowable .22 semi auto rifles.

THe 10/22 is pretty good too, although I don't know about kayaking with one. They make one's with 16 inch barrels or just the regular 18 is pretty compact.
.22 wins if theres a lot of small game and not a lot of bigger game.

good combo is a .22 longgun and a defensive centerfire pistol. Or a .22 pistol and a centerfire longun.

Make the decesion on a variety of factors, including the terrain, and the skill of the shooter.

Take care, interesting thread. :)
 
I have a Winchster Defender 12ga with a Butler Creek folding stock, compact and legal in Canada (overall length folded must be greater than 660mm or 26.5", barrel greater than 470mm or 18.5"). I carried it in the Arctic and Labrador for years while working, and although a bit heavy, a very dependable shotgun, and not all that expensive. I believe this is also made in a stainless/plated version for use on/around the water, and I have bought quite a few Remington 870's for others in stainless/plated and this is also a very dependable firearm. If weight is of no concern (no portage's etc), go for the shotgun. The shotgun is very multi-purpose and does give one piece of mind in bear country, and although you are not concerned about bears, you probably should be... (it only takes being involved in one bear death to change your mind on this subject).

I have worked near the coast with my blued Defender and rust forms daily (that is carrying it uncased on the side of my pack), it takes a lot of care and cleaning to keep the rust away. I have a stainless Dan Wesson .357mag (which I do not like btw) and a Ruger Super Black Hawk .44mag I also carry when appropriate and never had an issue with corrosion. I would highly recommend stainless in whatever you decide on, it is definitely worth the extra $$.

If purely for survival and weight is an issue, a lightweight stainless .22 with a folding stock (like a Ruger R22 with a Butler Creek stock) would be best in my opinion.

PLB's are a great idea if going on an extended trip. It's been a couple of years since I carried one, but there are lots of places that rent them. I used to rent them from Superior Safety in Thunder Bay. You file a response plan with them (trip details, who to call, etc if it goes off, i.e. local police). The frequencies are also trackable by Search and Rescue. You simply extend the antenna, turn it on, and wait.

I too have wondered about the Savage over/under combos, if you decide on one of these let us know what you think after using it for a while. I was thinking of the .22/20 combo .
 
MCKROB- thanks for your advice. I am not concerned with bears but I am realistic about them (hence this thread). Everybody will be comfortable with what they will carry, and will be prepared for the chance a bruin comes around and doesn't get the hint- but the guns are not just for defense against them. All one can do is hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

jh205- If you are against guns fine- this is a thread about what gun TO carry not a thread on what gun NOT to carry. I appreciate your POV- we will have food stocks with us but Murphy seems to hate me and I like meat more than PB&J. And what will you do if you run out of PB- hard to get game with the empty jar (but ants, frogs, other insects can be collected in them). We want to get as far away from people as possible- I want the nature to ourselves- which means being self reliant.

Paddling Man- Great advice from one who seems like he has paddled once or twice. No worry about the gun being above the kayak- it will be stored under until needed.

Will let Juli read the new posts and see what she thinks.

Thanks again all.
 
jh205- If you are against guns fine- this is a thread about what gun TO carry not a thread on what gun NOT to carry. I appreciate your POV- we will have food stocks with us but Murphy seems to hate me and I like meat more than PB&J. And what will you do if you run out of PB- hard to get game with the empty jar (but ants, frogs, other insects can be collected in them). We want to get as far away from people as possible- I want the nature to ourselves- which means being self reliant.
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Fair enough. I was just throwing out a few different suggestions on options other than a gun for your girlfriend. Do get a 406mhz PLB though - they cost a few hundred dollars but they really are worth it.

For a gun I think I'd go with a Remington 870 Marine Magnum and take shot for hunting and slugs for bears.
 
. I am NOT going to give her a gun the day we leave and say "this is what you are going to have". Seems like a bit of male centric attitude is prevailing this thread- remember that some women like the same things that we do!!!
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I need to clarify as well. I never suggested that a woman can't, doesn't want, or shouldn't carry a gun. I learned a LONG time ago to never under estimate a woman! My suggestion for a cheap gun is based on the fact that an expensive gun is at risk of damage on a trip paddling and that for the purposes of aquiring food, a .410 is light and easy to handle.
Inspite of what some may think the .410 is effective.

I am surprised with the lack of faith in having a kayak fitted with a gun in this subforum as I constantly read where people have a survival kit stashed in every nook & cranny that they can, people are worried about cutting their way out of buildings with their folders, etc. but a gun for a girl brings out some of these responses. It is not just me- she has been reading this thread too and can't fathom the negativity surrounding it. Rant off now.
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Again, it's not a lack of faith in outfitting a boat with a gun, it's the weight and space factors surrounding a paddling trip. I realize this is what this thread is for;)

We have not decided anything yet but we will take all of your opinions in mind.
Keep em coming guys.
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IMO, a 12 gage with slugs and bird shot packed bout covers the gammit of possibilities.:)
 
Savage model 24's come in all flavors and combinations but can get quite expensive.

I would recommend a Mossberg 500 in 20 guage. Take some slugs and a variety of shot shells. Slugs can go in a pouch on the belt, you can also put a elastic nylon carrier on the buttstock with a mix of everything else (three 7 1/2, three #6, three #00, etc). You can get the stainless model and it will resist corrosion a little longer. You can also dab a little fingernail polish over the primer and where the crimp in the shell comes together. Silicone sock (Remsock) inside a dry bag is a good idea too.

Have fun!
 
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