Overpriced knives in terms of materials, quality & service

[NorthernSouthpaw]

"I think" you should at least have some proof before making slanderous comments and not just speculations. Lots of conjecture with not much substances.

Actually I think he's right. Because it is essentially a two person operation trying to make semi production (or is it semi-custom....) knives, Brous does indeed subcontract a lot of work. Exactly what, and where to, I couldn't say. BUt there are rumors and there is no "Made In USA" stamp anywhere on my Reloader. Nor the COA that came with it.

 

[Cobalt]

Not the fault of Randall...

Cinder blocks are the thing Busse testers do: I could not care less about that nonsense myself, I am just amused that a thin-edged Model 14 ended up doing better with 440B than Busse INFI did in their very own "Busse-style" testing medium... Ah but he "Sasquatch" was thin edged as well, which was objected to... So INFI is good when it is chisel thick I guess...

I've seen at least one test where CPM3V tested way poorer than 440C, particularly on manila rope... And that was with identical purpose-built test mules for the test, not different knives from different makers... For me, Randall's 440B proved superior in comparison to everything I have tried while chopping wood, and better than most 440 in other knives... Rust resistance on CPM3V is also low if I am not mistaken... I have tried RJ Martin's S30V against Randall's 440B, equal edge angles, and S30V came out a close second... Not hugely impressed...

As to the catalog price of the Model 12, why are you even considering that? Catalogue price for Randalls is a four- five year wait... If you can find a 14 grind Model 12 available NOW for $650, please do show the link, I am intensely curious... Only 14 grinds mind you: I have no interest in their ugly curved clips...

As far as custom makers making better stuff than Randall, I'm sure they do exist, but very few of them are a known value... If they are a known value, the price will be higher than $450, and waiting time can be significant... In addition, how many custom makers can forge stainless? How many will consistently offer a given edge thickness of 0.020"? How many do hollow grinds? How many, for $450, will have leather sheaths that are even in the same league of simplicity and elegance?

I look and look for 9"-10" blades, and most custom knives I see offer flat-ground blades, traditional ornery handles devoid of checkering or finger grooves, ornery guards and decorated sheaths that are polar opposites to the simplicity I enjoy... Prices are not exactly low when ordering from dealers...

I can scroll for hours Arizona Custom Knives, or Nordic Knives, for 10" plus blades, and not see a single custom knife that combines thin-edged hollow grinds, chopping ability and a sharp straight-clipped point: Many intended to be choppers look a lot like Busse... I also don't like full tangs, as they are not balanced right and waste weight. Just not my thing...

Finally, and really the number one reason I am not interested in Customs: How many custom makers have a stock of finished knives ready to ship right now? Not many... Randall dealers do offer this. You pay a high price because they waited for you: A perfectly fair trade by me...

Gaston

Gaston, we called you out as a liar in the Busse forum for your postings about the crappy 440b compared to INFI and now you say it is better than 3V. You are still a liar and we asked you put up the factual information you have about all this testing. It is sad when someone who just joined one year ago has to be such a troll. We called you out then and we still do now.

Hey, I have a novel idea, why don't you learn how to sharpen a knife so you can avoid all these crappy edges that everything has except your Randals. Also I can tell you right now, your randal's edge would not be as durable, even a solid 52100 blade or SR101, will last longer, not to mention INFI, or 3V. How do I know? I owned #14's. They did not even come close to INFI and based on the performance I had, they would not come close to any of my custom 52100 blades. Actually, I would say you got jipped. You paid a lot for 440B.

 

[RamZar]

Brous Blades is not just Jason and Keena. They subcontract a lot. Also, I'm not sure if everything is made in U.S.

"I think" you should at least have some proof before making slanderous comments and not just speculations. Lots of conjecture with not much substantiation .

There's no slander on my part.

 

[Duane Sanders]

Not the fault of Randall...

Cinder blocks are the thing Busse testers do: I could not care less about that nonsense myself, I am just amused that a thin-edged Model 14 ended up doing better with 440B than Busse INFI did in their very own "Busse-style" testing medium... Ah but he "Sasquatch" was thin edged as well, which was objected to... So INFI is good when it is chisel thick I guess...

I've seen at least one test where CPM3V tested way poorer than 440C, particularly on manila rope... And that was with identical purpose-built test mules for the test, not different knives from different makers... For me, Randall's 440B proved superior in comparison to everything I have tried while chopping wood, and better than most 440 in other knives... Rust resistance on CPM3V is also low if I am not mistaken... I have tried RJ Martin's S30V against Randall's 440B, equal edge angles, and S30V came out a close second... Not hugely impressed...

As to the catalog price of the Model 12, why are you even considering that? Catalogue price for Randalls is a four- five year wait... If you can find a 14 grind Model 12 available NOW for $650, please do show the link, I am intensely curious... Only 14 grinds mind you: I have no interest in their ugly curved clips...

As far as custom makers making better stuff than Randall, I'm sure they do exist, but very few of them are a known value... If they are a known value, the price will be higher than $450, and waiting time can be significant... In addition, how many custom makers can forge stainless? How many will consistently offer a given edge thickness of 0.020"? How many do hollow grinds? How many, for $450, will have leather sheaths that are even in the same league of simplicity and elegance?

I look and look for 9"-10" blades, and most custom knives I see offer flat-ground blades, traditional ornery handles devoid of checkering or finger grooves, ornery guards and decorated sheaths that are polar opposites to the simplicity I enjoy... Prices are not exactly low when ordering from dealers...

I can scroll for hours Arizona Custom Knives, or Nordic Knives, for 10" plus blades, and not see a single custom knife that combines thin-edged hollow grinds, chopping ability and a sharp straight-clipped point: Many intended to be choppers look a lot like Busse... I also don't like full tangs, as they are not balanced right and waste weight. Just not my thing...

Finally, and really the number one reason I am not interested in Customs: How many custom makers have a stock of finished knives ready to ship right now? Not many... Randall dealers do offer this. You pay a high price because they waited for you: A perfectly fair trade by me...

Gaston

I think you lost them at "in comparison to everything I've tried". You just can not express an opinion on things you've tried.

I knew what your responses would be before I read them. I've been told in every single thread I've replied on that things simply do not work that way and was told where to google to prove it.

There's a few here who know what you are saying. Even better than that there is even more who will never even know about BF who have tried the same things and pretty much concluded what you have. You're just not allowed to say them things around here.

Thank you for your information.

 

[Cobalt]

I think you lost them at "in comparison to everything I've tried". You just can not express an opinion on things you've tried.

I knew what your responses would be before I read them. I've been told in every single thread I've replied on that things simply do not work that way and was told where to google to prove it.

There's a few here who know any you are saying. Even better than that there is even more who will never even know about BF who have tried the same things and pretty much concluded what you have. You're just not allowed to say them things around here.

Thank you for your information.

It is nice for you to appreciate factless information. You have had your own hayday on other threads, lest we not forget. Hmmm, if Boris had not been banned, I think we might have a trifectal reunion. But I have to say that if Randal had used 5160 instead of 440B, their knives would be much better. So at east you have better taste in steel than Gaston.

 

[B.F.U]

Well, this thread is gonna be dumb now. The old, in vs out, us vs them. And it was a relatively interesting discussion. Bummer.

I'll try anyway. Anyone ever thought a knife was overpriced, but liked it and bought it anyway? Did it change your mind?

 

[anvil_den]

No knives are overpriced. If you think a knife is overpriced clearly you're a poor loser who is just a hater and you need to go work harder so you can stop being bitter. Every knife is worth whatever it's being sold for, by anyone, even if there are other sellers selling it for substantially less. Any other opinion is just sour grapes.

Zero

On a different end of the spectrum... it can be argued "Most knives are just overpriced". Then again, what isn't these days.
It all boils down to how much one desires a particular knife... bike, house, car. Whatever object of desire it may be.

 

[mdoyle777]

I agree 100 percent! the problem being is sales vs advertising, If you do not know about the knife, how can you buy it, IE the more hype, the bigger cost of the finished product, and less quality for the price, a double edged sword. It is rare to get a trully good knife for a good price....

 

[Duane Sanders]

It is nice for you to appreciate factless information. You have had your own hayday on other threads, lest we not forget. Hmmm, if Boris had not been banned, I think we might have a trifectal reunion. But I have to say that if Randal had used 5160 instead of 440B, their knives would be much better. So at east you have better taste in steel than Gaston.

At some point it should be realized things just so not work out as you've been told or read about. I know this place is not the real world and things don't always work out as you've been told or read here then go out and buy them knives to prove it.

Instead of trying to "educate" you should just say well that's an interesting set of experiences you have. It don't matter how much more 3v or infi costs over 440B. What you aren't seeing is what he is saying.

At some point it should be realized these are not random idiots saying the same thing. Maybe someday you will see it but more than him or myself have had similar experiences that differ from the atypical patting each other on the back and discussing the "science" on why a steel is/could be better than the other around just here by an extreme minority of knife owners (users in some cases).

Yup, a Lamborghini will beat a mid 90s escort in a race. Which one will go 300,000 miles with normal maintenance? Your not seeing the drive for the journey. Your just googling the destination.

I am truly sorry you feel that way. It is not my loss though. One thing you will never understand is you can not convince someone, no matter how hard you try, to tell someone their experiences are wrong.

 

[stabman]

Maybe someday you will see it but more than him or myself have had similar experiences that differ from the atypical patting each other on the back and discussing the "science" on why a steel is/could be better than the other around just here by an extreme minority of knife owners (users in some cases).

And industrial applications like tool and die, mould-making, aerospace companies, etc...
But obviously some guy who doesn't believe in "new fangled concepts" like science knows more than all those guys...

Damn you science!!!

 

[bld522]

Ha! You blinded him with science!

 

[stabman]

Ha! You blinded him with science!

It's alright...science should be able to fix his blindness soon.

 

[Catabis]

I appreciate your post sir because it touches on two of my favorite watch makers. I wear a Rolex 114270 Explorer all the time. Would a Patek Philippe Nautilus keep better time, maybe? But I still name it as my dream SS sports watch. I think Rolex occupies the same position as a Chris Reeve Sebenza does. They're well regarded but to many they are an overpriced version of what one could get for less.

Well since timepieces are all about accuracy then even a Patek can't compete with a quartz digital, say, a GShock. And like one forumite said knives are about cutting, so all one needs is a box cutter. But box cutters and GShocks don't look as cool as a Sebenza or a Nautilus.

 

[jill jackson]

If that's so how come no one ever does it? Changing the edge thickness requires a full blade re-finishing: I do pay a pro to do this, and if the knife is not flat ground he won't do it: Trouble is, hollow grinds give the edge a reserve of wear that doesn't change the edge thickness as it wears. All flat grinds grow duller as they wear upwards...

And if sharpness was so common, how come a ridiculous 20 degrees per side is considered an acceptable standard? That's a 40 degree wedge blundering its way through...

Gaston

Is that right? 40 degrees? I am not saying I know 100% but an angle starts from the bottom, so it seems 20 degrees per side is still 20 degrees, on each side how does 20 degrees ever make 40? 40 would have to be 40 on each side. Please enlighten me if I'm wrong to think this way. It just seems you don't add two different angles to combine and make 40.

 

[B.F.U]

Is that right? 40 degrees? I am not saying I know 100% but an angle starts from the bottom, so it seems 20 degrees per side is still 20 degrees, on each side how does 20 degrees ever make 40? 40 would have to be 40 on each side. Please enlighten me if I'm wrong to think this way. It just seems you don't add two different angles to combine and make 40.

Not defending his statements, but that is a pretty common way of measuring an edge. I think it takes the center of the blade as zero degrees, the horizontal axis, and measures each side from there. So a true 40 degree edge would be two 20 degree edges.

 

[jill jackson]

Not defending his statements, but that is a pretty common way of measuring an edge. I think it takes the center of the blade as zero degrees, the horizontal axis, and measures each side from there. So a true 40 degree edge would be two 20 degree edges.

Thanks I never knew you added them together.

 

[herisson]

I have always understood the Lansky sharpener indicates 20° as 20° per side, which would be 40° inclusive. Ant that's by no way a "blundering edge" ! On thin blades, it just sails through thin catalog paper and holds up well for some light wood work. The key here being the thickness behind the edge, of course : an Opinel could be sharpened at 50° inclusive, it would still be a great cutter. On topic, my "overpriced" experience was the Fred Perrin Street Beat by Spyderco (at over 200 $). In my expectation, this knife should be well balanced. The point of balance should be in the middle of the index choil and it happens to be behind the choil. As a result the knife is butt heavy as hell and feels downright unpleasant in hand. At this price point, a tapered tang, a partial tang or whatever, would have been the extra length to go to dish out a (very) good knife. Very disappointing because otherwise it's a nice piece of work, with good materials and F&F.

 

[trevitrace]

Is that right? 40 degrees? I am not saying I know 100% but an angle starts from the bottom, so it seems 20 degrees per side is still 20 degrees, on each side how does 20 degrees ever make 40? 40 would have to be 40 on each side. Please enlighten me if I'm wrong to think this way. It just seems you don't add two different angles to combine and make 40.

Tuesday is a lovely day.

 

[Neo]

So getting back to the topic, Aluminum-handled folders with D2 blades from one of the manufacturers you mentioned are currently available from a well-respected online retailer for a base price of $199.00 to a high of $239.00. They're nice folders, but there isn't anything particularly spectacular or unique about them. They're just your basic bearing flipper with a liner lock and a 3.5" blade. And the price I quoted isn't MSRP. It's their selling price. Now to me, that's overpriced. So my question is, who would spend that much money for an aluminum-handled, D2, bearing flipper with a liner lock and why?

I'm on the forum for quite some years.
Before I signed up I was only reading and learning for a long time.
Today people sign up and start a thread like "I have 200 to spend, which knife should I get.
I think these days people have to much to spend and to little patience to fully "explore" the knife world.
For me the search is at least half the fun.

Last there was a knife offering at bladeforums I was really interested in.
While I was still calculating shipping costs and taxes someone snatched it before me
Fair game, but when i looked up his profile it seems he was only a few months on bladeforums and only posts in the trade sections.
You also have these kind of people, money to spend but no interests in going deeper in the subject.

 

[Cobalt]

At some point it should be realized things just so not work out as you've been told or read about. I know this place is not the real world and things don't always work out as you've been told or read here then go out and buy them knives to prove it.

Instead of trying to "educate" you should just say well that's an interesting set of experiences you have. It don't matter how much more 3v or infi costs over 440B. What you aren't seeing is what he is saying.

At some point it should be realized these are not random idiots saying the same thing. Maybe someday you will see it but more than him or myself have had similar experiences that differ from the atypical patting each other on the back and discussing the "science" on why a steel is/could be better than the other around just here by an extreme minority of knife owners (users in some cases).

Yup, a Lamborghini will beat a mid 90s escort in a race. Which one will go 300,000 miles with normal maintenance? Your not seeing the drive for the journey. Your just googling the destination.

I am truly sorry you feel that way. It is not my loss though. One thing you will never understand is you can not convince someone, no matter how hard you try, to tell someone their experiences are wrong.

I guaranty you I have used knives in way more situations than you have over the years. IN fact why don't you post some pics or vids of what you have done? I like how you presume that others do nothing with what they have, and you are the only one that does. That is so Boris like. No wonder others have joked and said "Boris?" Arrogance from someone who just joined is hilarious. You, Gaston and Boris should start your own forum. Yes, we should