Package Delivered Customer Won't Even Cooperate--What would you do?

banksy said:
What is proof of delivery? I always assumed that 'proof' involves a signature, or sometimes the courier takes a photo if left in a safe place.
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Proof of delivery is the word of the carrier that the package was delivered. Simple tracking from UPS, FedEx, USPS satisfy this.
A signature from the address on the package is required by PayPal when the purchase exceeds $750.
 
banksy said:
What is proof of delivery? I always assumed that 'proof' involves a signature, or sometimes the courier takes a photo if left in a safe place.
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PayPal and eBay are happy with tracking showing delivered on most item. If the carrier, USPS or UPS, etc...says delivered that is proof enough for them.

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banksy said:
What is proof of delivery? I always assumed that 'proof' involves a signature, or sometimes the courier takes a photo if left in a safe place.
Click to expand...

proof of delivery is simply a scan when they deliver the package. They are not perfect, but they are very good.
 
I recently had a package that tracked as delivered, which I never received. I have a locked box, so I don't think someone swiped the cellphone case. I eventually received a replacement package, but the original package never showed up....so it does happen. The post office wasn't very helpful.

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If you want to go by the letter of the law, so to speak, if you are the seller and you get paid through PayPal:
Under $750:
1. Ship with tracking
2. Provide said tracking # if asked by PayPal and you will be unaffected by virtually any claim the buyer makes, including "I never got it" or an unauthorized charge.

$750 and up:
1. see above, only require a signature for delivery.

If you want to help the seller on a "I never got it" claim (NOT THAT IT IS REQUIRED) you as the shipper can start a trace with the carrier.
I use FedEx exclusively and they are pretty good about having the delivery driver backtrack and confirm the item(s) was left at the correct address. UPS I would think is probably similar to FedEx, and I would not expect one bit of help from the USPS.
I have had drivers backtrack and realize they left it at the wrong house, admit they let someone who walked up to the address from the street sign for packages, leave them at the neighbors, leave the package on the street in front of an apartment building in Brooklyn, you name it.
 
Have you thought about asking the other online retailers whether they have experienced the same issue? If it's a scam there is a good chance that you're not the first target.
 
FLymon said:
I have had drivers backtrack and realize they left it at the wrong house, admit they let someone who walked up to the address from the street sign for packages, leave them at the neighbors, leave the package on the street in front of an apartment building in Brooklyn, you name it.
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This is the bit I don't understand about "proof" of delivery. It's not proof at all.

In these cases, does pp pick up the bill? If so, no wonder their fees are so high - if they (we) are paying for carriers mistakes
 
Someone ALWAYS pays for carrier mistakes. Someone ALWAYS pays for scammers. That someone is ALWAYS the end user.

Those costs are built into the cost of shipping, products, PayPal and services. PayPal is expensive for us and so we use their fraud/seller protection since we are paying for it anyway. :)
 
I have to say that sounds rather defeatist when a simple signature could reduce those costs by making the carrier deliver to the right place, or making it more difficult for the scammers
 
banksy said:
I have to say that sounds rather defeatist when a simple signature could reduce those costs by making the carrier deliver to the right place, or making it more difficult for the scammers
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As he stated in post 27, many of his customers don't want the signature confirmation. Due to work it can be a hassle for some. Plus it has it's own costs. Scammers pain as they are, are not an everyday occurrence. People catch on pretty quick.
 
I used to work closely with the Postal Inspectors. I learned how they caught so many thieves. Thieves never steal just once. Every successful theft makes them really greedy -- until they try one more time and find the Inspectors standing there waiting. Meanwhile they leave a trail of unhappy people in their wake.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
As he stated in post 27, many of his customers don't want the signature confirmation. Due to work it can be a hassle for some. Plus it has it's own costs. Scammers pain as they are, are not an everyday occurrence. People catch on pretty quick.
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That's his choice and fair enough as a business decision, but if he required a signature there would probably be no need for this thread.

And if the carrier were made to pick up the cost of their mistakes, there would either be fewer errors, or the carrier would be more expensive relative to others.

As it is, there is no incentive for the carrier to ensure a safe delivery, and the cost of that failure is spread amongst everyone.
 
Carriers can be charged for egregious errors in failing to safeguard the mail. We had a case in my station of a carrier who was paying back some $25,000 by payroll deduction for leaving a very valuable item, signature required, in an insecure location. He should have left a notice and returned it to the post office.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Carriers can be charged for egregious errors in failing to safeguard the mail. We had a case in my station of a carrier who was paying back some $25,000 by payroll deduction for leaving a very valuable item, signature required, in an insecure location. He should have left a notice and returned it to the post office.
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That isn't even legal. You can't make employees pay for accidental damages. Yea Mel at the diner might get Flo to pay for a stack of dishes but it isn't legal.

Airplane pilot lands a bit hard and damages landing gear. Does airline chase him for repairs?

Truck driver rolls on curve. Does she pay for repair?

Back to OP: If buyer doesn't want to file claim it's probably because they went to the well one too many times before.
 
BBuser said:
That isn't even legal. You can't make employees pay for accidental damages. Yea Mel at the diner might get Flo to pay for a stack of dishes but it isn't legal.

Airplane pilot lands a bit hard and damages landing gear. Does airline chase him for repairs?

Truck driver rolls on curve. Does she pay for repair?

Back to OP: If buyer doesn't want to file claim it's probably because they went to the well one too many times before.
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^ That's a very weak argument, if you even want to call it one! :rolleyes:

There's a glaring difference, between "accident," and "gross negligence."
As Samuel L. Jackson stated in the movie, Pulp Fiction: "they're not even in the same ball park!"

Esav Benyamin said:
Carriers can be charged for egregious errors in failing to safeguard the mail.
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My money is on Esav, that his statement is accurate! :thumbup:
 
KELAMA said:
^ That's a very weak argument, if you even want to call it one! :rolleyes:

There's a glaring difference, between "accident," and "gross negligence."
As Samuel L. Jackson stated in the movie, Pulp Fiction: "they're not even in the same ball
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Is there really a glaring difference? Truck driver rolls on a curve. Is it gross negligence or accident? Depends on viewpoint.

Amtrak engineer crashed in Philly a while back. He was going way too fast, probably negligent. Amtrak can't dock his pay. Only a court can hold him civilly liable.

Weak argument? And you cite "Pulp Fiction"?
 
okbohn said:
Someone ALWAYS pays for carrier mistakes. Someone ALWAYS pays for scammers. That someone is ALWAYS the end user.

Those costs are built into the cost of shipping, products, PayPal and services. PayPal is expensive for us and so we use their fraud/seller protection since we are paying for it anyway. :)
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True but not often thought. In a grocery store someone pays for the shoplifting, credit card fees, employee theft. It's built into the cost of the item.
 
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banksy said:
That's his choice and fair enough as a business decision, but if he required a signature there would probably be no need for this thread.

And if the carrier were made to pick up the cost of their mistakes, there would either be fewer errors, or the carrier would be more expensive relative to others.

As it is, there is no incentive for the carrier to ensure a safe delivery, and the cost of that failure is spread amongst everyone.
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I do understand what you are saying, and I like to get signatures on mine(outgoing)and when asked usually tell senders to put a signature required on just to be safe(though very low chance packages get stolen from my location). The OP is in a bit of a bind-customers don't want signature required, but they want their packages to get to them and no one else.
I am sure he has thought it through and is doing what he feels works best even if it isn't perfect(he sends out a lot of packages).
But for the rest of us that can't absorb much in losses, I suggest insurance, tracking and signature.
 
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