Package is lost, who takes the loss?

I sent out a knife via USPS Priority Mail w/ delivery confirmation, and it never arrived.
The knife I sent was paid for ( $135 ), so someone is out $135.
The question is, who takes the loss?
Do I take the loss, since the package never arrived, or does the buyer take the loss, since he never got the knife?

We all know the Post Office won't be taking a loss, especially since the package was not insured, so that only leaves me or the buyer..

My thinking is I should take the loss, but what is the consensus on this type of thing?

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mikemck@austin.rr.com
 
Sorry to say, your thinking is correct. Don't give up hope however. I once had a buyer send CASH! thru Priority Mail. We thought it was long gone but it showed up at my door 14 days later. Boy, was he relieved and I think he learned a valuable lesson about the benefits of a MO
biggrin.gif
Hope things work out for you and while it may be tough to do, do the right thing.
 
SammyB

SammyB

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Good question...

Here is something I just recently encountered. I bought $500 in Microtechs from another forum member and they were shipped via Fedex. When the package arrived from the seller it weighed 3 pounds less than when it started. Fedex employee of the month stole the knifes out of the box. We will never find them now... It looked like it was going to be a Charlie Foxtrot but in the end the seller and I are splitting the loss plus whatever money fedex returns. Stupidly, I did not insist on insurance and he did not insure them. Who is to blame...In reality, both of us. So in the end both of us will take a loss equally and take it as a lesson learned.

INSURE THE STUFF!!!

Many people insisted that the seller is responsible until the buyer accepts the goods. In good faith I could not bring myself to accept that as we never hammered out shipping terms.

In the end both of us will more than likely lose $200 bucks to a jagoff at fedex and never make the same mistake twice.

Hope you find you knife as it is a PITA to have thieves playing with your property.

-Sam.
 
Think about it this way... If you order a knife from an online dealer and it never shows up, should you - the buyer - still have to pay the dealer? Not a chance. Same goes in trading between forumites. If I sell a knife to another forumite, it's my responsibility to get the knife into his hands in the condition described. Always insure your knives-in-transit.

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Kelly
My Custom Knife Collection

Member NCCKG, SCAK, and AKTI

Deo Vindice
 
I agree that the buyer should not pay for a knife that he never recieved. I feel that there should be a clear understanding of who is responsible for shipping fees. Whoever is responsible for the shipping fees then has to make the decision to insure or not to insure. In my opinion, whoever decides not to insure should be responsible for lost merchandise. It is a shame that the buyer or the seller would ever be responsible for a piece of merchandise lost by the shipper. The shipper should be responsible for their mistakes. I believe UPS covers all packages up to $100 in the normal fee. $0.35 per $100 of value is the rate after the initial free $100 coverage. It looks to me the most that either one of you should've lost on a $135 knife is $100. I have never had a claim against a courier, but the above information is what UPS has told me.

Dennis
 
My take is that if there was no discussion of insurance, say offered to buyer at his cost, and he declines) then the seller has to eat the deal.

I've been scared a couple of times when I failed to insure a package, but never again!

smile.gif


Brandon
 
this brings us to one of my PET peeves... how come we are toooooooo cheap to spend $2 extra (not me- I ALWAYS BUY INSURANCE) Rob Simonich sent me a LOT of talonite duct taped to a board!!!! when it got here a few pieces were flapping in the wind.....but some was laying on a post office floor somewhere and probably went in the TRASH!! IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE SHIPPER TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PRODUCT ARRIVES AT THE DESTINATION.......BUY INSURANCE.....ALWAYS! end of rant

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http://www.mayoknives.com
John 1:14
Love is Stronger than Death!
 
Mike, usps recently lost one of my packages too. Sent a Russ a knife to MS about 7 weeks ago and it never arrived. Luckily, I had insurance. Just a reminder to everyone re: usps insurance, you will need a receipt or some documentation to support the value in order to collect the insurance. I agree with the other guys that it's the sellers responsibility to get the knife to the buyer.
 
I had one of those 14 day experiences a while back, so now when I sell a knife, I price it with shipping included. If it's USPS, the buyer gets a conf. no. and insurance(whether he wants it or not) because we neither need the grief of a lost item. However, this did come back to haunt me. One guy chewed me out because he isn't home when the mail is delivered and he had to wait 4 days before he could get to the post office to sign for it.
 
I would say that the seller has the responsibility to ensure that the package is insured. JMHO.

Joe
 
HI...I spoke with the clerk at the post office the other day. I asked him about insured mail and he told me that when doing a claim for a lost insured package, you need a receipt for the merchandise. Does anyone know if this is true? If I send a knife that cost me 100.00 and its now worth 1000.00 and I have no receipt do they pay? Since you are paying for the insurance, even if the box was empty when you ship it shouldn't they cover it?
Nick
 
Mike

It's normally the seller responsibility to get the knife to the buyer.
But there's always one lesson to learn, be sure to insure your
packages when you send the by USPS. For the little extra cost it
will be worth it. I just learn my first lesson I sent 2 Benchmade 910 &
1 Kershaw Avalanche out plus 2 Torx kits. When they arrived the box
look like it had been submerge in water for about two days. All the
knives had rust all over them. He sent in back to me in the same box
and put it inside another box. I could not believe the shape the package
was in. So now I will have to eat the cost of the knives and send him
new ones. But that's part of doing business and a lesson to learn that
won't happen again without insurance.


Roger

[This message has been edited by Bayou Lafourche (edited 03-12-2001).]
 
This question gets beat to death on ebay. I refuse to ship an item without insurance.If it gets lost or damaged during shipping, I'm out the money not the buyer. Also, never put the word knife or knives on the package if it's at all possible. Insurance seems like a waste of money, till you need it.

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Take care!! Michael
jesus.jpg


Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!
http://www.nebsnow.com/L6steel
Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms!!!
 
Although after the fact, here is a very simple solution. Prior to agreeing to a transaction, state and agree to ALL terms of shipping, insurance, etc. The very fact that this thread is here shows that it is not wise to assume from either parties. Tuff situation Mike. I' d say work it out with the buyer.

Nick: it is absolutely true that any claims filed for lost or damage requires a sales receipt to reflect value of merchandise at TIME of purchase. They will not settle claims with any payment where any merchandise may appreciate in value in the future. A copy of a legite retail catalog that shows the product that was claimed may also help. But it is not %100 since retail price may have increased or decreased since time of original purchase price.

Nakano

 
I hope the folks that buy from me read this and realize why I only ship insured. I feel it is my product until it is signed for at delivery. I have had folks grimmace at an extra 4 bits for insurance and have often thought they would simply go somewhere else to purchase because I would not back down on this. If a dealer does not want to pass this on to consumer, absorb the cost yourself or dont complain when you have to eat a loss...perhaps you saved enough on uninsured shipments to cover the loss. "He who lives my the sword dies by the sword" md
 
A knife remains the property of the seller until the buyer receives it. I can't see it any other way. Same applies to payment...it's the buyer's until the seller receives it. Each should take proper precautions. If the seller fails to insure the shipment, then shame on him/her. Payment in any form other than MO is asking for grief. For higher security requirements, use Certified or Registered Mail--packages may be sent by Registered Mail also. For payment, insist on Delivery Confirmation. Considering shipping without insurance to save a dollar or two...just don't. After all, what's a couple of dollars among friends?

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Take it easy.
RC
 
This situation totaly kills me. Why do people ship expensive stuff and NOT buy the insurance??

Just today I sent a package out USPS priority and insured it for $800. Ya' know what the total bill was???

$12

If you're not going to do it right, don't piss and whine when it goes bad!

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Clay
www.balisongxtreme.com
Because......
getting 'em open
is half the fun!
 
I agree! I always insure, even if I have to bite the cost. Better that than chance USPS/UPS/FedEx losing something... we all KNOW they never lose stuff...
smile.gif
 
I always put insurance on my packages unless the person tells me not to. Some people can't get to the P.O. to pick up a package so they want it sent delivery confirmation only so the mailman will leave it at their house without signing. I sent a package with insurance to someone and one of the knives got out of the box because the box got mashed. In the end, I didn't get my money back from the P.O. because I didn't have a reciept from when I bought the knife new (don't get me started on that crap) but I did give the guy his money back. Next time I will make a reciept or get one somewhere so I don't lose any more money. I had always thought that if you paid for insurance, it didn't matter how much the item was worth, you pay more for more insurance so you get that much. I found out that its not true. I think Fed Ex and UPS are different.

If you send something priority, it can get there anywhere from 2 to 30 days or more. I once sent Mark at MJ&S knives a money order for a knife and it got delivered 29 days after I sent it (and I sent it priority!). Hopefully your package will get there soon. Good Luck!
biggrin.gif

michael

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"For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword."
Heb. 4:12

Rest In Peace number 3 Dale Earnhardt
You will be greatly missed!
 
The rules I operate by with regard to this topic.
1.) I am responsible for delivering the product to the customer hands...not attempting to deliver it. I think this holds whether the sender is a dealer or forumite trading knives.

2.) I ALWAYS insure the package...no matter what.

The law of averages says that if you ship stuff often enough, sooner or later the shipper will loose something. Just one loss of a even a moderately priced production knife (not to mention a high end custom knife) will offset a TON of insurance charges. Plus, I rest a lot easier...stress stinks.

The only thing worse than paying for insurance and not needing it is...not paying for it and needing it. Just do it
smile.gif


Cecil

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Cecil Self
Arrow-Dynamics Cutting Tools
Factory authorized dealer for:
Benchmade, Chris Reeve Knives, Strider Knives, Mad Dog Knives, Self Knives, Edge Pro Sharpening systems
 
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