paper sharpening wheels - when your time is important to you

you need to have the motor set up so its comfortable for you hold the knife the way i sharpen. as for what happens to the burr, its flipped over to the other side. i have sharpened knives with deep nicks and had a burr form that was as long as the nick was deep. the longest burr i worked up was about 1/4" long and it felt soft due to it being so thin.
 
Yes,
The original burr is removed. Raising the burr is an indication you are removing metal from the edge. If you were contacting the wheel, and you get no burr, that means that your contact point is not at the edge of the knife. Since it is hard to see, the burr is the indication that you are at the edge, all the way across the edge. Next step is to do the same to the otherside, which means the burr will now be on the opposite side. The burr is then eliminated on the buffing slotted wheels. Hope that makes sense. Sharpening knives is a psychological sickness. Raise the burr, polish off the burr (remove it). The burr is good, then the burr is bad. Welcome to the fringe! MorrowJ, thank God you were not hurt. You are needed around these parts. You are a stand up quality individual, as well as a new dad! As you well know, as with any power equipment, if you are distracted, turn off power, and step away. I usually do my sharpening while my family is asleep. I sharpen at 1:00 oclock with the wheels rotating towards me. The burr is very visible with the right light.
 
I want to add/edit to my last post for clarification. The original burr is not removed whileon the grit wheel. In fact in softer more malleable metals, you may have a burr that is visible for 1/4" long that will flop back and forth as you switch sides while on the grit wheel. This would be if you had a deep nick in the edge, and you were removing a large amount of metal to restore a beat up blade. The burr may be continual on the grit wheel step. When you move to the polishing/buffing wheel, your burr will definitely be removed. That is what I meant when I say the original burr (from the grit wheel) will be be removed. I hope this provides clarification to my post.
 
This is day 2 with my paper wheels. I can get a relatively soft stainless steel (8Cr13MoV) blade pretty sharp, but I can't get the same sort of edge on a harder VG-10 stainless steel. I'm using the same bevel angle as before, but it's not working the way I expected. Does anyone have suggestions? The only thing I can think of is that there's tiny burr left on the edge...
 
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i have found out as well as other guys that some knives can only get "so sharp". its like putting an edge on a good carbon steel blade and then sharpening a soft stainless knife like what you would get from pakistan. the cheap knife wont get as sharp as the carbon steel blade. heat treat also has a lot to do with how sharp you can get a knife. for instance the knives i make rockwell around 63-65rc and can take a really good edge. a file just slides off the blade. a knife that a file will cut into might not take quite as good an edge.
 
That's my confusion. In my mind, a VG-10 blade is a harder, superior stainless steel that should take a great edge. (Spyderco Delica 4)

The other blades that I was able to get great edges are:
Cheapo kitchen knives from Taiwan with mystery stainless steel
Spyderco Tenacious, Persistence (8Cr13MoV)
Kershaw Scallion (420HC)
Byrd Crow (8Cr13MoV)
Old knives from Beretta (Aus6)
SOG Flash I (Aus8)

Everything tells me VG-10 will take a better edge than any of the above. And I have full confidence in Spyderco's heat treatment. So I tend to think it's more a technique/experience issue on my part. So I'm looking for advice on what I could be doing wrong.

I'm using 8 inch wheels on a 6 inch bench grinder with the wheels turning away from me at the top. I'm using the 1'O Clock position while looking directly down and holding the knife horizontally.

Thank you for taking time to read my posts.

Dan
 
dsmegst, try the method i use so you can see what you are doing a lot better. if it doesnt work out you can always switch back. if a knife has good steel and a good heat treat i can sharpen it. i made an ulu from a metal cutting saw blade that rockwells around 60rc and my knives are harder than that. i can get them sharp by working up a burr on the abrasive wheel or the belt sander and finishing it up on the buffing wheel. if you email me your number i'll give you a call so we can figure out what you're doing wrong. rje196021@gmail.com
 
Congratulations on your thread's anniversary Richard:)

Just wondering if this is suitable for edging a blade from no edge (after the handling and final finishing of the blade) or if it has to be run on the belt grinder initially. If not, then could you offer some vague estimate of how long it would take to completely profile and sharpen the edge of a knife with about 3/64" of thickness - 10" length?

I've been using the flat platten on a KMG with no variable speed (highest speed, because I hate changing up the pulleys) and I'm shaking by the time I get the edge done. And I'm lucky if I don't at least get a slight double bevel at some point that has to be slack-belted to concave it into conformity.

Thanks for your thread and all the information imparted. I've dumped a lot of money into sharpening systems, but really think this one might be the "one" given the high praise from actual makers.

Regards,

Dave
 
Hi,

I’ve been reading this thread for the past couple of weeks, and have enjoyed it very much. I have been sharpening knives for the past couple years at Bass Pro Shop using paper wheels. The method was new to me when I first started, but it didn’t take long to become fairly proficient with the system and decide it was the best system available. I found this thread when I started looking for paper wheels to use at home and was led to Mike’s Razor Sharp Edgemaking System. Because of the size of my grinder, I got the 10” wheels a couple of weeks ago, and love them. They are significantly faster than the 8” wheels used at work.

My question is what is the need for the wax on the grinding wheel. The system I use at work does not require the wax and I haven’t figured out what it is for. I’m using the wax on my wheels at home because the instructions said to, but why. This may have been covered earlier in the thread, but if it has, I have forgotten and beg everyone’s forgiveness for bringing up something already covered.

Anyway, thanks for the great thread.

Walt
 
I figured it slows the speed of material removal. Cooling too maybe? Not really sure myself.

I used my paper wheels when I went home this past weekend and was once again impressed with how quick they work and how sharp knives can get with them.
 
Dave, to answer your question about using the wheels to put the very first edge on a knife check out this thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651061 i put the very first edge on all of the knives pictured at this link in a few hours
(5th picture) http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=652236 some of daves knives took almost 8 minutes each while some others took around 3-5 minutes.

WCB, the wax cuts down on frictioin and heat. mount a waxless wheel on one side of your grinder and a waxed wheel on the other. you'll notice the waxed wheel allows the blade to be drawn across a lot easier.
 
Richard,

Thanks for the info. I noticed the difference between the wheels at work and the ones at home after you said what the wax does. It does work.

Thanks
 
I sharpened a few more tonight. I'm getting progressively better results. I look forward to my next chance to sharpen. I use my grinder outside so I'm at the mercy of sunlight. I need to remember to take breaks and rest my arms. I start getting wobbly.
 
Hi Richard,

I want to thank you for taking time to talk with me over the phone this week. I thought about what you said, re-read the posts you gave me links for and tried a few more times. I'm definitely screwing up while using the grinding wheel. I went back to my benchstones, spent an hour repairing my jacked up Delica's bevel. Then I went straight to the honing wheel for a few minutes. In no time, I had a shiny edge all the way down the blade.

I tested the edge and I can cut strips out of newspaper without tearing. It's strange. The edge doesn't FEEL sharper than before when I tested the edge with my finger but it cuts like crazy.

I'm beginning to think that I did not have a very polished edge before and it grabbed my skin more. Now, I have a single polished edge running all the way down. I have yet to reach the hair whittling edge, but I'm going to work at it.

Also, I'm going to use your technique to practice with the grinding wheel.

As soon as I get the chance, I'll send you a few knives to sharpen. I really appreciate your offer.

Thank a bunch,

Dan
 
dsmegst said:
Hi Richard,

I want to thank you for taking time to talk with me over the phone this week. I thought about what you said, re-read the posts you gave me links for and tried a few more times. I'm definitely screwing up while using the grinding wheel. I went back to my benchstones, spent an hour repairing my jacked up Delica's bevel. Then I went straight to the honing wheel for a few minutes. In no time, I had a shiny edge all the way down the blade.

I tested the edge and I can cut strips out of newspaper without tearing. It's strange. The edge doesn't FEEL sharper than before when I tested the edge with my finger but it cuts like crazy.

I'm beginning to think that I did not have a very polished edge before and it grabbed my skin more. Now, I have a single polished edge running all the way down. I have yet to reach the hair whittling edge, but I'm going to work at it.

Also, I'm going to use your technique to practice with the grinding wheel.

As soon as I get the chance, I'll send you a few knives to sharpen. I really appreciate your offer.

Thank a bunch,

Dan
Click to expand...

The first time you pass your knife edge across hair dangling in the air and it catches on it makes it all worth while. It really was a Jordan river crossing for me. I did it with the wheels! Only got shaving sharp with stones. I still want to become very good by hand, once the kids are a little older, and I am not so busy.
 
Yet another satisfied customer chiming in -- these work. I can do a bit better with belts admittedly but I've been using belts for years. I've done less than twenty knives on the wheels so far and I'm quite pleased with the results that I'm getting.

A few observations:

I had trouble on the first few knives at 1 o'clock, edge facing me. I tried going further up on the wheels, then eventually tilted the knife back beyond horizontal back at 1 o'clock. That did the trick. The videos don't really show this.

A strong light source above/behind is extremely helpful to see what the burr is doing. Richard said this repeatedly but I just didn't listen. :o I still verify the burr's position and orientation with my thumbnail between passes, just to be safe.

Since I usually have a lot of it around and it's worked extremely well for me in the past on strops and leather belts, I've been using Lee Valley's green compound instead of the included white compound. It works fine in this application. Whether it's better than the white compound or not I really couldn't say.

Different alloys react in different ways. Common knowledge, I know, but it's far more pronounced here than on the belts. Softer stuff (Glock field knife, CS Shovel, carbon chef's knife, etc.) tended to produce burrs that flopped around a lot and had to be "chased" back and forth a number of times, even with light pressure. S30V and S90V produced extremely tiny and inflexible burrs that couldn't really be seen, but could be detected with a thumbnail. For those I had to apply significantly more pressure to get anything accomplished at all and the burrs tended to break off rather than grind off. The added pressure may or may not be required on the grit wheel; I never used it on any of these steels as I try not to let the edges on such things get that bad.

Richard's comments about heat (or lack thereof) are spot on. It was far less of a problem here than it would've been with belts IMO. No tips burning off either. (I've always been bad about that on belts.)

While excellent for folders, larger knives are trickier. I'd expect a sword or a khukuri to be an absolute pain in the ass. The second wheel forces you to angle in on a corner and if your grinder is mounted near a wall as most are, you're limited in that direction as well.

Richard's title for this thread is most appropriate. Even though I can do better with the belts, it's not really worth my time in most cases. Refreshing a folder consists of one or two passes in either direction -- ten seconds or so if I'm taking my time. I can bring a bunch of knives out to the garage, fire up the buffer, and have them all done in a few minutes if I haven't let the edges go too far. The grit wheel seems largely unnecessary; in fact, if you were sharpening only low alloy stuff that's not crazy hard, you could probably get by with just the buffing wheel and a file, although it would take a little longer. Somewhat along the same lines, this doesn't instantly render all of one's other sharpening products obsolete. One could always touch up via stropping or ceramics or whatever through the week and give it a quick kiss on the buffing wheel when it needs it, keeping steel removal to a minimum.

Good product. :thumbup: Well worth the money. It was surprisingly easy to get the hang of. I'm a believer.
 
I had a slight hum on my wheels. I still could get great results, but it bugged me, the vibration. I looked at the stock fender washers that came with the grinder, and I saw that they were stamped out of round. I am not complaining, the grinder was inexpensive, and is more than adequate. I spinned the wheels by hand and watched the high spot on the fender washer, and was able to true it up last night. I have almost no vibration now, and I feel that the blade is spending more time in contact with the wheel rather than bouncing across it. I felt this info may help some others. Queen D2 Canoe sharpened with 2 passes on grit wheel per side and 2 passes buffing wheel per side. Even tool steel is quick to sharpen on these wheels.
 
to true up a wheel i get a board that is about 12" long x 4-6" wide and hold a piece of really coarse abrasive cloth on it. with the board set under the wheel i slowly move the board in until it makes contact with the high spot. i slowly let the abrasive eat the high spot down until the wheel is true. if you push the board into the wheel so it makes contact all the time you wont remove the high spot but actually make it worse. a rocking side to side motion can help speed up the process.
 
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