paper sharpening wheels - when your time is important to you

I got my set in and started playing with them about a week or two ago. I can say you can mess up a knife in a hurry on the coated wheel if your not paying attention! lol

I have never had a knife so sharp, so fast, in my life. These wheels are the real deal. I sharpened 3 VERY dull kitchen knives last night in about 10 minutes total.....and they shave hair. My every day carry knife is a old Kershaw folder, its wicked sharp now - I have never gotten it this sharp for the entire length of the blade before. I am impressed.
 
i'm glad you like the wheels. i try to keep distractions down to a minimum when i sharpen. its best to practice on an old knife before you try a good knife. that way you wont have to worry about messing up and can concentrate on sharpening. i practiced on a hack saw blade first.
 
you can do scissors too. get an old pair to practice with. you just sharpen the flat edge to the same angle. if they are a right hand pair, you go off the right side, left hand, left side. that is with the wheel rotating twoard you and holding the blade at the 12:00 position. match up the existing angle with the wheel off first. do both sides and then open and close them several times to remove the burr. never use the buffing wheel on a pair of scissors.
 
cbwx posted a neat picture of his setup. a buffer with a belt sander attachment. that would be the ultimate setup for convexing blades or all around sharpening. i asked him to post a picture of the sander from the side
 
Here's my pic....

MT_01.jpg


I'll just refer you to the link I made in the other post for a side view of the MultiTool... :)

http://www.vansantent.com/Vendor_pages/Multitool_Grinders.htm

cbw
 
that setup would be perfect for convex edges and the soft contact wheel is another plus. i like the trizact belts too. i have one that is close to 20 years old and still going but its getting thin.
 
WOW, that sanding attachment would be PERFECT :eek:

That will attach to any bench grinder, right?
 
i think it will attach to any grinder motor but you might want to check with the manufacturer to be sure.
 
i had a friend call me up a while back wanting to know what all he needed to get in order to put a convex edge on his knfe using his belt sander. he went through this list of belt grits from coarse grits for starting out to fine belts for finishing. when he said that he was going to order about $50. for micron belts i asked if he had planned on putting a mirror finish on an entire blade like the one i put on kalama.

he said no, that he was going to use it to finish the edge. i asked him why he wanted to get belts he didnt need. when he asked why, i told him the finest belt he needed was a 400 grit jflex and going any finer was a waste, that an edge like that is what i consider to be a wire edge (novelty edge) and it will roll unless all he wanted to do was whittle hair.

he said he cuts a lot of heavy duty cardboard and what i told him about the wire edge made sense. i told him to try a 320 grit and finish it off on the slotted paper wheel and he should be good to go. i told him k II can chop down trees, shave hair and push cut newspaper or free hanging newspaper with the same edge finish i told him to use.
 
Why do you say a highly finished belt sander edge is a wire edge or a novelty edge? I really don't understand you. You're VERY helpful, probably one of the most helpful people i've seen on this forum. You're willing to call people to walk them through things etc. You offer probably the cheapest sharpening of anyone I know (I charge A LOT more) but you really can't see beyond the paper wheels. They're a good system, but they're not better than everything. To say a highly refined belt sander edge is a "novelty" edge is silly. Two angles meeting at a well refined apex, why can only paper wheels deliver? It's not rocket science. Are these edges just shiny wire edges that are only for novelty and are going to roll?

edge1.jpg


duo3.jpg


Paper wheels are a good system, but it's not a damn cult. You're a great sharpener, chances are there's someone better. Paper wheels work, stones work, the sharpmaker works, the EP works, belt sander all the way up to the highest micron belts work, a flat river stone works! I just feel like you're Ron Popeil pushing his rotisserie.

Please don't take this as an insult, it's not meant as such. I just wish you'd accept some other ideas as well.
 
i did not say a polished belt sander edge in particular. i meant an edge taken down past a 400 grit is too fine an edge no matter what the method. i have sharpened a lot of knives by hand and taken them down with stones as fine as glass. the edges looked exactly like yours did but the edge did not last as long as an edge finished with a coarser stone. i have sharpened enough knives before i got the wheels to get enough feedback to figure out what edge worked the best.
 
The white compound on the polish wheel is certainly higher than 400 grit. The first picture I posted was of a Busse Basic 11 I convexed, I later stripped and gave it a satin finish on my belt sander.

satinbasic.jpg


edge2.jpg


That convex edge was finished with .5 micron compound, I used the hell out of it ALL summer long. I actually touched up the edge probably three times all summer, and that was just stropping. A high polished edge is no thinner than a toothy edge, it's just a matter of refinement. A toothy edge, in all actuality is more susceptible to dulling in that once the "teeth" or micro serrations, which is actually just the edge not being finished to a higher degree wear away, you're left with a dull knife. A polished edge takes longer to break down. Now I won't get into an argument whether a polished edge or a toothy edge is better, but I will say that a polished edge may not stay perfectly polished, it certainly will not dull to the point of not cutting any faster than a rough edge.
 
230grains said:
That convex edge was finished with .5 micron compound, I used the hell out of it ALL summer long. I actually touched up the edge probably three times all summer, and that was just stropping. A high polished edge is no thinner than a toothy edge, it's just a matter of refinement. A toothy edge, in all actuality is more susceptible to dulling in that once the "teeth" or micro serrations, which is actually just the edge not being finished to a higher degree wear away, you're left with a dull knife. A polished edge takes longer to break down. Now I won't get into an argument whether a polished edge or a toothy edge is better, but I will say that a polished edge may not stay perfectly polished, it certainly will not dull to the point of not cutting any faster than a rough edge.
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Hi, 230

I think when Richard is referring to the "novelty edge," he's talking about an edge that's so thinly (and finely) ground and finished that it has very little strength and won't hold up after a few cuts. I'm talking about the very tip of the cutting edge.

I also like having a mirror finish on my edges, but I also understand that the initial hair whittling edge that comes with it won't last. I think the issue is the practicality of such a high degree of sharpness, not the effectiveness.

The argument was to save money on extra belts that would pretty much do the same thing as the slotted wheels, which the person already owned. It wasn't that the belts were ineffective somehow. At least that's how I read it.

That's a hell of a nice edge you got on that knife. :) .5 micron is about as far as I ever go.
 
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dsmegst said:
Hi, 230

I think when Richard is referring to the "novelty edge," he's talking about an edge that's so thinly (and finely) ground and finished that it has very little strength and won't hold up after a few cuts. I'm talking about the very tip of the cutting edge.

I also like having a mirror finish on my edges, but I also understand that the initial hair whittling edge that comes with it won't last. I think the issue is the practicality of such a high degree of sharpness, not the effectiveness.

The argument was to save money on extra belts that would pretty much do the same thing as the slotted wheels, which the person already owned. It wasn't that the belts were ineffective somehow. At least that's how I read it.

That's a hell of a nice edge you got on that knife. :) .5 micron is about as far as I ever go.
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Here's what he said that I had a problem with.

richard j said:
he said no, that he was going to use it to finish the edge. i asked him why he wanted to get belts he didnt need. when he asked why, i told him the finest belt he needed was a 400 grit jflex and going any finer was a waste, that an edge like that is what i consider to be a wire edge (novelty edge) and it will roll unless all he wanted to do was whittle hair.
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Any higher grit is going to roll? I don't understand that.

I don't understand how a higher level of edge refinement is going to in turn cause edge damage. I can whittle free hanging hair like nothing, slice the finest paper etc.. My edges aren't rolling. Right now I have my gayle bradley in my pocket. I sharpened it with DMT plates up to .25 micron. I have not touched it up since I sharpened it and it still shaves hair.
 
I don't have much to add to this definitive thread except for a big thumbs-up. I just got my set last week, and the edges you get with these things is well worth it. If you're on the fence about buying them, do it!! OH yeah, and it takes about 4 seconds.
 
I don't have a lot of time to sharpen these days. The wheels give me a serviceable edge that will shave and slice newspaper in less than two minutes. It also holds up for quite a while. The belt sander does nearly as well in about the same time but I only have a couple of applications where I want a convex edge.

Just curious, how long does it take to get one of those mirror edges on a 5" or 6" blade?
 
it depends on what kind of edge you want. a v edge will only take a few minutes or less. a convex however can take a while depending on blade hardness, thickness and how you want the final convex shape.
 
230grains said:
Any higher grit is going to roll? I don't understand that.

I don't understand how a higher level of edge refinement is going to in turn cause edge damage. I can whittle free hanging hair like nothing, slice the finest paper etc.. My edges aren't rolling. Right now I have my gayle bradley in my pocket. I sharpened it with DMT plates up to .25 micron. I have not touched it up since I sharpened it and it still shaves hair.
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Hm, I see what you're saying. Generally, when you go finer and finer with the leading edge, the line that contacts what you're cutting gets thinner. And in my mind, that extremely thin edge will degrade very quickly. Depending on the angle, it will either wear off or bend over.

This is less likely on a thick edge like the convex edges you're doing but I think the theory holds, if to a much lesser degree.
 
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