paper sharpening wheels - when your time is important to you

Hey Roostercrow, make sure that you are getting a good burr all along the edge of your blade before going to the slotted wheel. Sounds like that is what happened to your rat 1. On my "Opies", I usually only have to run them on the slotted wheel to get them hair shaving sharp. When I started out I was afraid of grinding away too much steel, and was not getting a good burr on my blades. To get a good burr, you don't have to grind a lot of metal, but you do have to grind enough to reach an apex and form a burr all along the edge.

DavyJones: what you are seeing is normal as RoMo pointed out. It is just the wax on the wheels showing through. On my wheels, there is more wax than grit showing, which is the way I like them. They grind slower that way, but will still sharpen a blade. If the wax is too thick for your liking, then take a small wire brush like the ones that look like a toothbrush, and lightly grind/clean some of it away. It will naturally grind away with use also. Nothing to really worry about, just don't add any more wax until needed, and then use sparingly. Good luck!

Blessings,

Omar
 
Hi guys,

Thanks for the responses, I also spoke with Richard and he said the same thing you guys said. The wire brush took the excess wax right off. It's surprising how much comes off when I touched the wax stick to the spinning wheel. Richard suggested just applying it lightly while turning the wheel by hand, and using my thumb to apply. That seems to be fixing the problem.

Now - I guess I need to work on angle consistency to get sharper edges. I read about using a sharpie to highlight when I'm drifting off the correct angle/edge. Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
 
DaveyJones said:
Now - I guess I need to work on angle consistency to get sharper edges. I read about using a sharpie to highlight when I'm drifting off the correct angle/edge. Any other suggestions?Thanks,
Click to expand...

The sharpie will help in allowing you to visually see what is happening. Three other suggestions:
Practice, Practice, and then Practice! :D You will get there, and then when it happens, it will be an "AH-HA" moment. These wheels are amazing to me, and when I got mine dialed in, there were no regrets that I had gone this way.

Blessings,

Omar
 
Thanks to all for the previous replies. I'm making progress but am still not where I want to be. A couple of other questions for you all:

1. My slotted wheel is developing a coat of black stuff over it. When I'm using the slotted wheel, so stumped this black stuff will come off on the knife. I also wonder if it's affecting the a kitty's really polish things. Any suggestions?

2. How do you use the slotted wheel to get a high level of polish? I havent quite figured that out, but might it have something do with the black gunk?

3. Are all burrs creates equal? Sometimes, I get the burr up on one side consistently across the edge, then do the same to the other. Yet - when I'm done, sometimes the end result is much sharper than others. Any suggestion son how to improve consistency?

4. Finally - what are the best ways to test sharpness. Aside from shaving, I'm using newspaper to see I I can slice it like whittling, along with a string cut test i
On some string.

Thanks for any help..
 
I've been through the majority of this thread and was unable to find a video showing technique(sorry if I missed it). Does anyone know if there is a video showing techniques for using these wheels? I should have my set in a few days and would like to get a jump on the learning curve.

Also, I'm needing a bench grinder/buffer but need to keep prices down as much as possible. I'm looking at the $40 Harbor Freight model but it's a fixed speed. I know it will work but am wondering if there isn't a variable one for a little more... anyone have a line on a variable speed grinder/buffer for $70 or less?

Thanks for the info gents, very helpful.
 
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DaveyJones said:
Thanks to all for the previous replies. I'm making progress but am still not where I want to be. A couple of other questions for you all:

1. My slotted wheel is developing a coat of black stuff over it. When I'm using the slotted wheel, so stumped this black stuff will come off on the knife. I also wonder if it's affecting the a kitty's really polish things. Any suggestions?

2. How do you use the slotted wheel to get a high level of polish? I havent quite figured that out, but might it have something do with the black gunk?

3. Are all burrs creates equal? Sometimes, I get the burr up on one side consistently across the edge, then do the same to the other. Yet - when I'm done, sometimes the end result is much sharper than others. Any suggestion son how to improve consistency?

4. Finally - what are the best ways to test sharpness. Aside from shaving, I'm using newspaper to see I I can slice it like whittling, along with a string cut test i
On some string. Thanks for any help..
Click to expand...

The black "gunk" is just the white compound build up with the metal it removes from the blade while polishing it and stropping it. The same black that will show up on a strop when used with some compound. You need to apply a small amount of the white polishing compound before each use to achieve a good polish and strop action. Some of it will come off on the blade sometimes, but just wipe it off with a paper towel. Also, wipe the blade after grinding and before using the slotted wheel, so as to remove any wax that may have adhered to the blade edge.

The white "rouge" is a grinding and polishing compound. It will not result in a "mirror" finish per se, but will leave a good polished grind bevel if you use the same angle you used on the grit wheel.

The burr will be consistent if you grind it enough to raise a good burr all along the apex of the blade. It sounds like you are achieving this on some grinds, but not all of them. Just need some more practice and attention to the full burr all along the edge.

I use the thin phone book paper to test my results, and I also lightly drag the edge of the knife at an angle along the hair at the back of my head. If it catches easily, it is sharp enough to shave the hair on your arm. I do not actually cut or shave the hair on my head, but just feel the resistance when it makes contact. Try it before you sharpen your knife, and then after you sharpen it to see and feel the difference. Sounds crazy, but it works to give you a feel for sharpness. :witless: Practice, as it sounds like you are almost there. Congratulations on your progress.

Blessings,

Omar
 
creature7 said:
I've been through the majority of this thread and was unable to find a video showing technique(sorry if I missed it). Does anyone know if there is a video showing techniques for using these wheels? I should have my set in a few days and would like to get a jump on the learning curve. Also, I'm needing a bench grinder/buffer but need to keep prices down as much as possible. I'm looking at the $40 Harbor Freight model but it's a fixed speed. I know it will work but am wondering if there isn't a variable one for a little more... anyone have a line on a variable speed grinder/buffer for $70 or less?Thanks for the info gents, very
helpful
Click to expand...

I have not seen too many videos showing the techniques involved in using the wheels, but there are a few from people showing them using them. The best way is to get some cheap kitchen knives from a local thrift store, usually for about a $ each, or get some hack saw blades to practice on. Use light pressure and try to keep the blades moving from the handle to the tip and try to achieve an even grind pattern on them. Grind from the top of the grit wheel at about the 1 o'clock position and work your way down to achieve the desired angle. The 1 o'clock point will give you about a 12 to 15 * grind per side, and as you move down it will get to be a more obtuse angle. (IE: 2 o'clock will be approx 20 to 25 * grind.) These are approximate and are just an idea of what to expect with where you are grinding and will have to be adjusted to suit what ever angle you are seeking

Loews has a variable speed grinder for around a $100 or so that will go down to about 2000 rpm. You might check them out if you have one in your area. Good luck with your wheels.

Blessings,

Omar
 
here is a vid of me buffing the edge of a busse that had a factory edge that was dull. i managed to touch it up on the slotted wheel only. https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_Q47m-c082VN1FzRkFJY18ydEU

i was going to make some vids this year but being injured ruined thoes plans. i hope i'll be healed up enough next year to make some. if you read and follow my instructions you should not have any problems. i have a tips page that has a lot of useful information on it. when i started this thread i tried to post enough instructions to cover all questions anyone could come up with so anyone should be able to sharpen with the wheels. here is a link to my tops page. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=608864

the best advise i could give anyone is to practice on getting a good burr before going to the slotted wheel. if you move to the slotted wheel before you are ready, you will get frustrated and wonder what you are doing wrong. make several passes on a junk knife once you see signs of a burr so you can tell how much of a burr you need to work up. a thinner blade will need less work to form a burr compared to a thicker blade.

if you buff an edge and look straight down on it as if you were going to cut your nose in half, you should not see anything shining. if you do there is still a flat spot on the edge and you need to keep going and work up another burr.
 
I recently got a set of wheels and got to practicing on some very old carbon steel and stainless butcher knives. It took a while but finally realized that I was overestimating my angle and coming in too shallow. Once I put a little more angle on it, the burr came right up. My question is this, on a long bladed butcher knife with a lot of sweep to the belly, should you raise the handle to follow the sweep? It makes it a little more difficult to maintain your angle that way but seems logical to me. Also clears your hand from the slotted wheel when running that direction. By the way, my trusty SAK has never been so sharp and it took me all of twenty seconds to get it that way. Love the wheels!
 
kevnkar said:
My question is this, on a long bladed butcher knife with a lot of sweep to the belly, should you raise the handle to follow the sweep? It makes it a little more difficult to maintain your angle that way but seems logical to me. Also clears your hand from the slotted wheel when running that direction. By the way, my trusty SAK has never been so sharp and it took me all of twenty seconds to get it that way. Love the wheels!
Click to expand...

I would say yes to raising the handle. You want to follow the grind angle from "stem to stern" as my grandfather would say. I raise the handle on a sweeping belly when I grind my knives. Have not had a problem with running into the slotted wheel when grinding, but have run into the grit wheel a time or two. The sharp edge of the grit wheel will cut into your knuckles. :eek: Saying that with personal experience!

Blessings,

Omar
 
kevnkar said:
I recently got a set of wheels and got to practicing on some very old carbon steel and stainless butcher knives. It took a while but finally realized that I was overestimating my angle and coming in too shallow. Once I put a little more angle on it, the burr came right up. My question is this, on a long bladed butcher knife with a lot of sweep to the belly, should you raise the handle to follow the sweep? It makes it a little more difficult to maintain your angle that way but seems logical to me. Also clears your hand from the slotted wheel when running that direction. By the way, my trusty SAK has never been so sharp and it took me all of twenty seconds to get it that way. Love the wheels!
Click to expand...


if you raise the handle when you reach the belly, you will change the angle and make it an obtuse edge. you need to keep the blade flat from start to finish.
 
One of the ways I sharpen knives is to use a HF 1 X 30 belt sander with a 80 micron (about 180 grit) belt and follow it up with some passes on the paper wheels. The results so far have been excellent. But there is always room for improvement. I can get very sharp edges very quickly without having to change belts.

I like using the belt sander since it is very easy to clean up the chips and nicks on a blade. The belt sander seems to do a better job at this then the paper wheel. Also it is very easy to get a burr.

One thing I don’t like about paper wheels is fooling with replacing the grit on the grit wheel. I don’t have to do it often but it’s a pain nevertheless. Since the belt sander belt is about the same grit as the grit wheel, I not sure the grit wheel is adding much. Instead, can I use two paper wheels with compound of different types to improve the edges even more? I’ve heard of some professional knife sharpens doing this. Has anyone taken this approach and if so have they been happy with the results? If so what compounds do you use and where can I get them?

Thanks
 
cds43016, welcome to the forum. are you by chance from ohio?

i use a 10" grit and slotted wheel to sharpen with and that extra 2" makes a big difference in how fast you can work up a burr. i wish i had a wheel that size when i did 241 folders in 17 hours ( http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651061 ).

all of these knives were brand new with no edge. experience and having things set up to give you room to work is the best way to get good edges. i use the same compound that comes with the wheels but i have had some members with the wheels send me a knife to sharpen so they have something to go by. i sharpened a benchmade for a member who sharpened an identical benchmade and he said mine was way sharper. i told him he was not holding his tongue right :D

i have a belt sander also that i do my convex edges on. i'm known for my convex edges. here are some threads you can check out. all the knives in the links are knives i made. they are a chisel grind with a half convex edge. i can get the knives i make sharp enough to cut a free hanging hair crossways but to me a knife that sharp is a waste. it might be neat as a novelty to have a knife that sharp but try working up a burr with 80 grit and then give it a few passes on the slotted wheel. you might be suprised.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...amed-the-Pitbull!-Kinda-sharp-well-you-ll-see!!

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/960269-Knife-from-Richard-J knife i made for singularity 35

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1092684-Knives-by-Richard-J?p=12533188#post12533188 macks necker

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Knife-by-Richard-handle-by-unit?goto=newpost
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7iDE2EBzBw my video of k II slicing free hanging newspaper
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esp9tg4ZBpA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hW_XDLecms CWR0401
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q_eMwRaHYg unit vid of k II
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_Q47m-c082VN1FzRkFJY18ydEU bufffing a dull busse with the slotted wheel

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_Q47m-c082VcTIzOFdQWG9rTE0 busse i reground the edge on after pmc messed it up on a handheld belt sander.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_Q47m-c082VNF9iWmExR2szSms cutting free hanging newspaper with k II. first time i did this the paper never messed up like it did in the vid.
 
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richardj - Many well wishes for your health in the coming new year!

I just bought a set of 8" wheels, What speed grinder would you reccomend? Would one of the variable speed grinders be a good choice? Thanks!
 
Okay so I've had my sharpening wheels for about two weeks now and all I can say is wow. I haven't really experienced sharp knives before now. So every knife in my house is razor sharp. I have a bunch of kitchen/butcher knives from thrift stores that are super sharp and have no where to put them. I now need to figure out how to make a butcher block or knife block lol.

Anyway, thanks for the help gents. I used the cheap Harbor Freight buffer and it has been working great. At first I just took things nice and slow and worked on knives I didn't really care about. Now I can do a knife in under 5mins and it looks great. I just wish there was some way sharpen Scandi grind knives on them. Does anyone use the buffer wheel on Scandis? If so, do you have any advice? I tried on a Mora companion and it didn't work out that great.
 
Atama said:
What speed grinder would you recommend?
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I prefer the 1725 ish motors myself. Woodcraft has one available. The variable speed units can be hit and miss as far as quality. I've sent back or returned every one I've purchased so I've given up on them. But that just may be bad luck. If you have the dough go Baldor.
 
Atama said:
richardj - Many well wishes for your health in the coming new year!
I just bought a set of 8" wheels, What speed grinder would you reccomend? Would one of the variable speed grinders be a good choice? Thanks!
Click to expand...

I have very limited experience with this system but I got a $30 3500rpm buffer from Harbor Freight and it works great. If you use a good amount of wax it won't grind as much off but be aware, it's easy to go overboard with the stuff. I did at first and thought I had worn off all the grit. Turns out I just had too much wax.

The key is to get a bunch of cheapo knives from thrift stores and practice a bunch on them. Then once you feel confident move on to better knives. It took me a day or two to get things going good. I started working on higher end blades about a week after I got it. I've just been trying to grind/polish the bevel and try to stay true with the angle. I also try not to grind too much if I don't have to.
 
Can you sharpen V grinds as well as convexed with paper wheels? Does it work for one better then another? Will sharpening a V grind with paper wheels eventually make it a convex edge? Last, I have a standard bench grinder, is there an issue if the RPM's are not adjustable? Can I just use less pressure and still have good result? Thanks for your time guys.
 
In answer to your questions:

1. Can you sharpen V grinds as well as convexed with paper wheels? Yes!
2. Does it work for one better then another? Not necessarily, but leaning towards a V grind is easier.
3. Will sharpening a V grind with paper wheels eventually make it a convex edge? Not unless you want it to.
4. I have a standard bench grinder, is there an issue if the RPM's are not adjustable? Can I just use less pressure and still have good result? Thanks for your time guys. The RPM's will not be a big problem, but the distance between the wheels if close may be a minor issue you will have to watch out for. Using light pressure is the key to getting good results in my opinion. Let the wheels do all the work, and you just guide the blade.

I have a HF 6 inch buffer that runs at 3500, and have no problems with it. It is what I originally had, so it is what I learned on and have gotten used to it. Slow and easy is the key to success. The slotted wheel is an amazing strop, and often I only have to use it to "tune up" my blades without having to go to the grit wheel to grind them. Of course I am a bit OCD about my blades and keep them sharp after any significant use of them

Good luck with your wheels, I am sure you will be amazed at how easy they are to keep your knives sharp.

Blessings,

Omar

P.S, edited to add: Is the Ghost Town truck stop still open in Casper?
 
Yeah, Ghost Town Truck Stop is still open. I stopped there just the other day in fact. Did you used to live here?
 
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