Para 2 pivot bushing??? ...not sure about it.

archieblue

archieblue

Joined
Mar 19, 2001
Messages
3,157
Been carrying a Para2 for a week now and just had to get a look at it's guts. I was amazed to find that it does not act as a stand off a'la Sebenza. One can still over tighten the pivot. It is basically a pin trapped between the scales instead of removable through one side. What task is it that this thing is supposed to do?
 
Have you actually overtightened it or are you assuming you can due to the design? It seems to me if the pin is trapped between the scales and not able to be slid out that the pin itself would cause the scales to stand off and prevent overtightening. This for my own edification; I don't have the knife.
 
archieblue said:
Been carrying a Para2 for a week now and just had to get a look at it's guts. I was amazed to find that it does not act as a stand off a'la Sebenza. One can still over tighten the pivot. It is basically a pin trapped between the scales instead of removable through one side. What task is it that this thing is supposed to do?
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From the factory, the bushings are a TINY bit thicker, by something like 0.001 to 0.002 inches, than the blade tang. So even if the pivot screws are tight, the blade will freely swing as long as the lock is disengaged. If you really crank down on the screws, you can add a bit of friction to the pivot action.

So far, the Para 2s I've seen can be tightened down more than the Manix 2s. Enough to take up any side to side play you may see. Of course there are manufacturing tolerances that may result in a pivot that's a bit looser or tighter than the ideal.
 
The washers can still be pressed between the tang and liners. i can see that if it were perfectly made it could be compressed between the G10 scales, making it somewhat of a standoff... but what would be the benefit of that? It certainly would make it MORE difficult to properly produce given that instead of simply getting the tolerances correct between the liners, it also includes the added tips of the bushing itself... right? If that is the theory, (that it is meant to stand off, tightened, between the G10 scales) it would be more difficult to produce than the CRK bushing and, purely by design, less effective.

I'm not trying to rattle the cage... just talking about the knife in my hand. I just don't see the benefit of the thing in question, and am just seeking perspectives!
 
I have got close to two dozen of the new bushing knives, between various M2 and P2 knives. Most will not over-tighten, but some definitely will. A couple, on the other hand, cannot be tightened enough to eliminate blade play laterally. I don't think any of these are defective. It's just a reflection of manufacturing tolerances available at this price point.
 
archieblue said:
The washers can still be pressed between the tang and liners. i can see that if it were perfectly made it could be compressed between the G10 scales, making it somewhat of a standoff... but what would be the benefit of that? It certainly would make it MORE difficult to properly produce given that instead of simply getting the tolerances correct between the liners, it also includes the added tips of the bushing itself... right? If that is the theory, (that it is meant to stand off, tightened, between the G10 scales) it would be more difficult to produce than the CRK bushing and, purely by design, less effective.

I'm not trying to rattle the cage... just talking about the knife in my hand. I just don't see the benefit of the thing in question, and am just seeking perspectives!
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The washers fit between the liners and the bushing. Unless the blade tang is way oversized, it won't contact the washers before the bushing. I doubt that would pass QC. The purpose of the bushing is to provide a foolproof way for a 0 friction pivot. The side effect to this is a possibility of side to side movement.

I'm pretty sure that if you really crank down on the Sebbie's pivot screw, you'll get a stiff lock too.

Edit: I just disproved that statement for myself. Sebbies are awesome.
 
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On my Para 2, I have a very slight amount of horizontal blade play. It's slight enough that it doesn't really bother me. But I tried to see if I could eliminate it by adjusting the screws. I found that if I tightened the pivot and stop screws pretty tight, it eliminated the blade play but caused the blade to become too tight, i.e., it would no longer fall freely when the lock was released. So I backed off on the screws just until the blade would fall freely when the lock was released and decided to just live with the very very small amount of horizontal blade play that remains. Vertically it is rock solid.
 
mongatu said:
On my Para 2, I have a very slight amount of horizontal blade play. It's slight enough that it doesn't really bother me. But I tried to see if I could eliminate it by adjusting the screws. I found that if I tightened the pivot and stop screws pretty tight, it eliminated the blade play but caused the blade to become too tight, i.e., it would no longer fall freely when the lock was released. So I backed off on the screws just until the blade would fall freely when the lock was released and decided to just live with the very very small amount of horizontal blade play that remains. Vertically it is rock solid.
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Give it a while and then try tightening the pivot screw again. After a while I was able to tighten the pivot screw all the way and the blade action was still smooth.

Worked for me. :thumbup:
 
eloreno said:
Give it a while and then try tightening the pivot screw again. After a while I was able to tighten the pivot screw all the way and the blade action was still smooth.

Worked for me. :thumbup:
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OK, eventually I'll give it a try again. Great knife in any case.
 
If the screw is loose. Use loctite if you can. Set it to a desired tension and dont touch it for a few hours. When I first got mine I did this. I actually set the pivot just a hair tight. After breaking it in for the past month, zero friction and zero blade play. That said. Mine is a DLC blade from January 2011.

mongatu said:
OK, eventually I'll give it a try again. Great knife in any case.
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..
 
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dsmegst said:
The washers fit between the liners and the bushing. Unless the blade tang is way oversized, it won't contact the washers before the bushing. I doubt that would pass QC. The purpose of the bushing is to provide a foolproof way for a 0 friction pivot. The side effect to this is a possibility of side to side movement.

I'm pretty sure that if you really crank down on the Sebbie's pivot screw, you'll get a stiff lock too.
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Never say never when human beings are involved, but...almost never. Sal has commented before about the tolerances involved in manufacture of CRK knives. There are reasons why they're more expensive than regular production knives. I have never owned, and only rarely heard of, a Seb that couldn't be cranked down as hard as the wrench and screwhead will permit.
 
JNewell said:
Never say never when human beings are involved, but...almost never. Sal has commented before about the tolerances involved in manufacture of CRK knives. There are reasons why they're more expensive than regular production knives. I have never owned, and only rarely heard of, a Seb that couldn't be cranked down as hard as the wrench and screwhead will permit.
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Yeah, I came home and tried that. I'm eating my words. :) One consolation is that my re-adjusted S90v Para 2 is just as good. Side by side, it's as wiggle free side to side as the small Sebbie and just as smooth. Both blades fall with gravity alone. :thumbup:
 
jimnolimit said:
i can tighten down on my para 2 pivot screw and the blade still opens smoothly.
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As I said, some you can, some you can't. In addition, some Manix 2s will clamp if you over-tighten the backspacer screws near the pivot. Ditto the Para 2 stop pin screws.
 
JNewell said:
As I said, some you can, some you can't. In addition, some Manix 2s will clamp if you over-tighten the backspacer screws near the pivot. Ditto the Para 2 stop pin screws.
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i understand that, i was just reporting how my particular model acts.
 
ArchieBlue,

You announced you would not be getting a Para 2, but glad ya did!
Hope we'll see a video on it and I do recall your last vid disclaiming your appreciation for the Standoff screws CRK uses.

Looking forward to my Para 2.
 
I have four Para 2's. Two of them have perfectly tightened screws and the blades swing freely. The other two I've had to find a sweet spot with the screws, leaving one side not totally tight due to it causing terrible binding. They aren't totally tight but they aren't loose either and I've kept my eye on them. I would, however, feel a lot better if the pivot system was simple like the Military's because I don't yet trust the new pivot system and have heard about more issues than just mine. Keep it simple!
 
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