Paris attacks

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tueller said:
1. Do not deprive people of their natural, god given right to protect themselves and give them the right to own/carry whatever tools they need to do so. Survival never was, is not, and never will be a gaurentee. Ultimately, survival is only the responsibility of those that wish to survive. Study, train, equip and prepare.

2. Stop the political correctness and deal with the real problem. Muslim extremism threatens the whole world. Call it whatever terrorist organism you like, the Muslim extremist ideology is dangerous and the longer we wait to take real action the worst it will be. Ever ask why the Nazi's were not stopped before they gained power... History repeats itself.

3. Stop crippling the armed forces with rediculious rules of engagement. War is ugly and innocent will die. Don't waste the sweat, blood and lives of our beloved soldiers if we are not going all in. War is no place for sheep or the media/politicians that serve them. I have no doubt that our nations warriors would obliterate Isis with in a few months if they were freed and allowed to do so.

PRAY FOR PEACE, PREPARE FOR WAR.
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^^^THIS GUY.....knows what's up. Well said sir.
 
Right on, tueller! The sheepdogs of the world see the dangers way before any citizen will. They just refuse to listen to us until the walls are nearly breached...;-)
 
1. The tragedy was horrible and devastating for all of us --- my deepest condolences to anyone that lost any friends/family/relatives. Truly a sad day.

2. Political Correctness is weakness. It's like self inducing blindness/deafness. It's absolutely pointless.

3. Being simple minded and believing what you hear in media reports is akin to not paying attention. Extremism/terrorism is the enemy here, not Islam -- not Muslims. Millions of Muslims were just as horrified as the the rest of us. I know many that were itching to pick up their AR's and join others of different religious and ethnic backgrounds to light up these barbaric psychopaths.

4. This is the hardest one to accept. We have to hold our governments accountable for creating conditions (on purpose/accidentally) that lead people into the arms of extremists. If anyone killed my family members and destroyed my home --- you better believe I would feel motivated to "do something" about it. Every action has intended/unintended consequences. We can't just hoorah our way wherever we want and then cry up a storm when we get hit back.

5. The U.S has the ability to significantly impact ISIS if they truly wanted to ---- but why would they --- ISIS is draining Iran, Syria, Iraq, Russia, and Hezbollah of their money and their soldiers. ISIS is serving as a buffer ---- while we are slowly and incrementally trying to contain and eventually destroy ISIS --- there is no rush -- because they are serving as an effective inhibitor against Iranian growth. It's geopolitical chess --- follow the money and you'll see that the media reports are more of an after thought rather than anything true and substantive.
 
tuica said:
Right on, tueller! The sheepdogs of the world see the dangers way before any citizen will. They just refuse to listen to us until the walls are nearly breached...;-)
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Sheepdogs might see breached walls where other humans would be more rational.
But of course none of the sheep dogs would admit being wrong. Wrong about Ebola or Swine Flue for example. And that these two and others turned out to be quite manageable doesn't mean that they can't mutate and kill us all next year. Right? ;-)

I respect sheep dog when they use their own head and make their own conclusions. When however they are all all doing the same thing and start panicking without thinking they look like a pack one might say herd maybe even sheep.

Sheep are important though. Just imagine it's war and everybody uses their own brain too much and questions everything. Wouldn't really be able to win without sheep. Would we?
 
Noxious Fumes said:
.... Interesting to have news from a non North American source. They, sometimes, have accesses that we don't have.
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Unfortunately, most of the times. Our once great news stations aren't "news" stations anymore. If you want news go elsewhere - BBC, Deutsche Welle, France24 etc.

Prayers and thoughts all affected by this tragedy.
 
If it is rational to let waves of Muslim immigrants into a western society and culture, Jens, then I am insane. At last check 9.6% of France is Muslim. How many reading this post would like 30 million Muslims living in the US? It's simply not worth my, or your life, to let this occur. Let alone how that would forever negatively alter the fabric and future of this still great nation. Have a great week...;-)
 
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tuica said:
If it is rational to let waves of Muslim immigrants into a western society and culture, Jens, then I am insane. At last check 9.6% of France is Muslim. How many reading this post would like 30 million Muslims living in the US? It's simply not worth my, or your life, to let this occur. Let alone how that would negatively forever alter the fabric and future of this still great nation. Have a great week...;-)
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Brother --- I hope you realize how bad this kind of statement is. If you think these atrocities are condoned/supported by Muslims -- you're ridiculously mistaken. Muslims, Christians, Jews, etc. -- they're all still people with hearts, minds, and souls. Extremists and terrorists are not representative of the community as a whole. Just my 2 cents --- give all people a fair shake
 
Rob_Mob said:
Brother --- I hope you realize how bad this kind of statement is. If you think these atrocities are condoned/supported by Muslims -- you're ridiculously mistaken. Muslims, Christians, Jews, etc. -- they're all still people with hearts, minds, and souls. Extremists and terrorists are not representative of the community as a whole. Just my 2 cents --- give all people a fair shake
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Rob, I agree with you. But, with fear being the motivation that it is, the Muslim population that "deserve a fair shake" are going to get swept up in with the extremists if they don't get a lot more vocal. (Not that they have been quiet, but with world affairs being like.They are....If it was me i would be a lot louder)
 
I agree --- but people need to understand that in many ways it's unjust/unfair to expect non violent rational people who happen to be Muslims to be burdened with speaking out against Murderers who commit serious brutality and glorify it for attention/recruitment. It would be like Christian Fanatics killing in terrorist attacks and then people demanding that all of us say out loud that "we're not with them".

Don't get me wrong -- I personally agree that it's better to speak out and distance themselves from the fanatics --- but I don't think any of us are in any defendable position to expect anything -- all we can do is hope and encourage and show respect/understanding for their culture. Without doing that we collectively fail to do for others what we hope would be done for us.
 
OK. No time, energy here to debate this topic to the degree I would prefer. In closing would just like to point out that if you can find comparable Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Shinto attacks against civilian targets in the world please take the time to list them here. It won't take you long.

And whether these actions are welcomed or despised by all those peaceful Muslims is really beside the point. They happen, and will continue to happen, as jihad is waged against my, and your way of life. And do not want to sour any relationships with BF members who are fine people. Good hearted, for the most part, but some a bit naieve. Cheers and have a great week. I'm through here...;-)
 
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tuica said:
Thanks for your comment, Tim. I only see what should be so obvious to most people. Unarmed citizens are merely sheep awaiting slaughter. By whatever evil comes their way. I have been studying terrorism since it began in the 1970's with Baade-Meinhof; The Red Brigades; and the same bastards who were the parent's of those fellows currently murdering innocents in France, and elsewhere. I hope even the most dewy eyed liberal is shocked into action by recent - and certainly, future events. Guard you borders, Western civilization!
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This whole Paris situation is nothing but sickening. Prayers and smoke sent to all of France.

tuica, Your speaking my lingo Bro!!! I was there for 4.5 years when the Baader-Meinhof and Red Brigade was in heavy ops in and around Germany to Italy. It seems to me there would be more OUTCRY with our boarders and no telling how many of the buggers have strolled in already.
 
Rob_Mob said:
Brother --- I hope you realize how bad this kind of statement is. If you think these atrocities are condoned/supported by Muslims -- you're ridiculously mistaken. Muslims, Christians, Jews, etc. -- they're all still people with hearts, minds, and souls. Extremists and terrorists are not representative of the community as a whole. Just my 2 cents --- give all people a fair shake
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Every new group of immigrants that came to North America were composed of honest people trying to better their lives, and ready to work towards that goal. That being said, every one of those groups brought their share of shady characters, criminals (and their own brand of organized crime), and lunatics..... Such is human nature.

The most destructive of those "new arrivals" were ,probably, our forefathers who nearly wiped out the natives.

Facts are, the benefits of the influx of new people has always outweighed the minority, amongst them, that were trouble.
The criminal elements that came with them were interested in using this new land to make an easy $$$$. Not slaughter.

What we are facing now is a minority, within an honest and peace loving populace, who are intent on our destruction..... And that, my friends, makes a whole lot of difference.....

I beleive that is the very reason why so many feel like we should be shutting our doors. They feel that, this time, the risk is too high...... Many do not feel like going the way of this land's natives.

My new prime minister is intent on having 25,000 Syrians enter Canada before Xmas. He is rushing the process ..... Most are desperate people in need of help. I'm wondering how many of them will not adopt the ideas, and way of life, of their new country.

P.s. The UN is not satisfied with our 25,000. They want us to take 100,000. Our government is cutting services all over.....I don't know how we can afford to take care of so many more.
 
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Muslim extremists. Sure, everyone can point at religious nut jobs, but for many years now Muslim religious nut Jobs are the guys causing most of the trouble world wide and they get away with it due to rampant political correctness. Because political elites don't want to look bad on TV, our current president, and those who would take his place are some. Bush, Clinton all cowards. This speaks to the caractor of the currant political critter as they are now. It's a shame these animals who espouse the virtue of the religion of peace have yet again managed to shut a civilized city down. I wish France the best in their persicution of these animals and I hope the world comes to its senses and stops messing with them. It would be best to contain them in their sandbox and let them kill each other off.
 
I can understand the tension, frustration, and cocktail mix of emotions running through us all. Without getting too political, I generally believe that the moral high ground dictates that all people should be given a fair chance to show their true colors. I definitely don't want to ruffle feathers here --- everyone has their own experiences and thoughts. Everyone needs to keep in mind though that we do have fellow Forum members who are Muslim and I don't feel it's right to bash Muslims as a whole for many reasons, let alone the fact that its hostile/insensitive rhetoric might be in violation of Forum rules.

The main point here is that I wish all those who have suffered to find healing, peace, and tolerance within them. Prayers and smoke sent around the world for us all. Cheers brothers!
 
People who were raised in a poor, sour, and savage land may have trouble behaving In a civilized environment.
 
Rob_Mob said:
I agree --- but people need to understand that in many ways it's unjust/unfair to expect non violent rational people who happen to be Muslims to be burdened with speaking out against Murderers who commit serious brutality and glorify it for attention/recruitment. It would be like Christian Fanatics killing in terrorist attacks and then people demanding that all of us say out loud that "we're not with them".
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Where you go wrong is your assumption that these people arise out of an infertile vacuum... The most recent interpretations of the Koran have the most authority, and the more the interpretation is recent, the more extremist it is... They need to shape up to this, and produce a huge literature to put this down...: They have done nothing of the sort, since the protection afforded to those who do this is so mediocre they end up dead, and the few that still do it have to flee to the West or die...

Few also mention that the Sharia law allows Muslim men to marry non-Muslim women, but forbids Muslim women from marrying non-Muslim men: This is considered the same as adultery, so is punishable by death... You will have a hard time finding a Muslim, however moderate, who will openly speak against this, even within the safety of the West... If they can't even do that, what kind of friends are moderate Muslims supposed to be?: We can get your women, but you can't touch ours...

This is like ignoring the Nazis had gained widespread support in Germany: Most Germans were probably passive and indifferent, but mute indifference is way short of what is required to avoid responsibility... Before gaining enough votes to be elected, the Nazi party had been accused of multiple murders by many serious and respected journalists, this to general indifference... If you are indifferent to the murder of people you don't care about, that is way, way short of being in the clear... In the same vein, most Russians are probably not murderously inclined, yet Putin has a 90% approval rating...

Gaston
 
Rob_Mob said:
I can understand the tension, frustration, and cocktail mix of emotions running through us all. Without getting too political, I generally believe that the moral high ground dictates that all people should be given a fair chance to show their true colors. I definitely don't want to ruffle feathers here --- everyone has their own experiences and thoughts. Everyone needs to keep in mind though that we do have fellow Forum members who are Muslim and I don't feel it's right to bash Muslims as a whole for many reasons, let alone the fact that its hostile/insensitive rhetoric might be in violation of Forum rules.

The main point here is that I wish all those who have suffered to find healing, peace, and tolerance within them. Prayers and smoke sent around the world for us all. Cheers brothers!
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Agreed for the most part and only disrespect to any Muslim forum member, but the fact remains that in a good part of the world it's Muslims causing problems and killing people. No large group of Muslims have been on TV have not been promoting Islam as a religion of peace (not for nonmuslims anyway) so any image issues are their own fault. As for those out of the western world, let them kill each other off.
 
Yes, Big_jack I have heard of that conflict. As has my friend, tuica. His comments refer to current events, not the situation 70 years past. And if that's your comparison, its a stretch. Japanese, German, Italian militarist's - driven by their religion - wage war against humanity by planting bombs in concert halls, airliners, and shopping venues throughout the world? Perhaps don't have those books in my World War Two library. Nice try, though. And - moving on to more significant endeavors...Cheers.
 
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