Photos Patina thread

SwissHeritageCo said:
I thought this was photoshopped...
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Those roses were real. I was probably using the portrait mode with my iPhone for that picture. It makes me look like I know what I’m doing.

I know I was using portrait mode for this one.
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Alwaysdreaming said:
Inherited patina

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There are no other markings on the palette (?) knife so not sure what orders the initials come in, what they stand for or where it's from.


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Guessing that this poor Joseph Elliot & Sons table knife was used for something other than eating as there are flecks of paint on both sides of the blade, but you never know what might have made up Victorian diets...



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I've been trying to find an approximate age for the Lockwood Brothers knife and the best I can come up with is that it was made somewhere between 1837 and the early 1900s, but could be way off with that. If anyone has any clearer idea it would be great to have your input!


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Some very nice finds there :cool: Does the Ham Knife, next to the Elliot table knife, have a name on it? Those are lovely Chef's Knives, surprisingly similar in form. My big old Lockwood Butcher Knife has a much more simple form. What are the handles on your Lockwood? I doubt that it is quite as old as you think. The Lockwood Brothers' mark was acquired by Joseph Elliot in 1927, and the firm used it as a stand-alone brand, on cutlery of all kinds, until 1998.

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Alwaysdreaming said:
Thanks very much!

Apologies for the poor photo's, the ham knife says 'Farma', and I believe the handles on the Lockwood Bros are ebony, certainly looks that way.

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Thank you for the insights and the photo! Is that the Joseph Elliot factory?
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I think that the 'Farma' etch may belong to a factor, or more likely to the customer for whom the ham knives were made. I've seen Ham Knives with all sorts of marks (stamps as well as etches). I even have a Joseph Allen Ham Knife with the 'Broad Arrow', and another by Ibberson's, with an etch for West Riding Tyre Co. Ltd. While the military contract may have been substantial, one has to wonder how many Ham Knives a tyre company were ordering to make it worthwhile marking them (still they got an etch, rather than a stamp).

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That's quite a fancy forging for a Sheffield kitchen knife, and while I may be wrong, I don't recall seeing knives produced like that in Sheffield until no earlier than the late 70's or early 80's, when they were essentially imitations of Sabatier knives. If you want to explore further, you'll need to look for Lockwood Brothers/Joseph Elliot catalogues.

Yes, that's the old Sylvester Works, which Joseph Elliot occupied, almost right next to Sheffield's River Porter.

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Lockwood's old works was on Spital Hill, but has probably been demolished now.

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Jack Black said:
I think that the 'Farma' etch may belong to a factor, or more likely to the customer for whom the ham knives were made. I've seen Ham Knives with all sorts of marks (stamps as well as etches). I even have a Joseph Allen Ham Knife with the 'Broad Arrow', and another by Ibberson's, with an etch for West Riding Tyre Co. Ltd. While the military contract may have been substantial, one has to wonder how many Ham Knives a tyre company were ordering to make it worthwhile marking them (still they got an etch, rather than a stamp).

GCxbGBL.jpg


c5cYDEe.jpg


r8szKfo.jpg


That's quite a fancy forging for a Sheffield kitchen knife, and while I may be wrong, I don't recall seeing knives produced like that in Sheffield until no earlier than the late 70's or early 80's, when they were essentially imitations of Sabatier knives. If you want to explore further, you'll need to look for Lockwood Brothers/Joseph Elliot catalogues.

Yes, that's the old Sylvester Works, which Joseph Elliot occupied, almost right next to Sheffield's River Porter.

AhlF8cl.jpg


Lockwood's old works was on Spital Hill, but has probably been demolished now.

4ak6kmo.jpg
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This is excellent information and just what I was hoping for, thanks so much Jack!

Apologies for distracting from the main theme of the thread, but would most ham knives have been stainless steel as your examples above, or are you aware of any made of carbon steel?

There must have been some fantastic buildings associated with the cutlery trade in Sheffield, it's a real shame that so much of historic value has been lost or destroyed.

Do you have any suggestions about where to look for the sorts of catalogues you mentioned?
 
Alwaysdreaming said:
This is excellent information and just what I was hoping for, thanks so much Jack!

Apologies for distracting from the main theme of the thread, but would most ham knives have been stainless steel as your examples above, or are you aware of any made of carbon steel?

There must have been some fantastic buildings associated with the cutlery trade in Sheffield, it's a real shame that so much of historic value has been lost or destroyed.

Do you have any suggestions about where to look for the sorts of catalogues you mentioned?
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Posting in the correct thread is an important part of getting good information. I certainly wouldn't have seen your post, if it hadn't been for your PM. There's also a sub-forum specifically aimed at kitchen cutlery discussion, where you might get more information. I'm reluctant to further de-rail this thread, because I think it's disrespectful to other posters, but I'll say that before 1913, ALL Ham Knives were made from carbon steel, and here's a very old Harrison Ham Knife.

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There some other factory photos here .

The best place to look for old Lockwood/Elliot catalogues is probably the Ken Hawley Collection at Sheffield's Kelham Island Museum, but you might want to try the other sub-forum first :thumbsup:

My apologies to other posters for this digression :thumbsup:
 
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