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Paypal Fees

Its not nonsense, sorry. I'll give you an example to quell your character flaw.

In NY state it is illegal to charge a fee for using a credit card (section 518: No seller in any sales transaction may impose a surcharge on a holder who elects to use a credit card in lieu of payment by cash, check, or similar means...) but its not illegal to raise your prices to encompass credit card purchases. So if i went into a store and bought a knife and the retailer was like "oh thats $100 + 3.5 % for using a credit card" that would be against the law because. credit card usage fees are for the seller to pay.

Similarly

From the terms of service of pay-pal (4.6 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.) So therefore technically it is illegal to ask the purchaser to pay your fee, but it is not illegal to ask for a higher price to meet your bottom line.

I get that some people are lazy, cheap, b-holes, but I flat out refuse to support them. There is a difference in having a price that encompasses fees, and straight up charging an extra fee :thumbup:

**edited to say, pay pal fees are 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction, so asking for 3.5% or more outright BS aside from being against the rules.
 
powernoodle said:
I get myself in trouble a fair amount around here because I have a character flaw that doesn't allow me to accept nonsense common sense. And forgive me but its just nonsense to pretend that the asking price does not encompass everything including shipping and Paypal fees. Whether the seller acknowledges this fact by saying "$100 + 3.5%", or does not acknowledge it by say "$103.50 and I'll eat the fees", the buyer is still paying the fees and shipping costs either way, and the price is still $103.50 either way. The only difference is the emotion that the buyer experiences or does not experience based on the seller's marketing technique.

I agree with you, Archbishop RevDev and others who contend that "$103.50 and no fees" is the easier and more straightforward of the two ways, and that's the only way I've ever done it. I always say "free shipping and no fees", and I'm not advocating using the words "plus 3.5%". What I am advocating is that there is no objective difference between the two ways, because either way you are putting $103.50 into the seller's Paypal account, and either way you are paying the fee.

I've ridden this donkey too far, and will zip it now. :) I get that you don't like being asked to pay the fee. :thumbup:
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The edit can be much more applicable. ;)
 
JackHammer said:
If I sell a knife, I usually ask for $10 towards shipping, though shipping usually runs me a few bucks more than that. I don't ask for paypal fees, I don't ask for the gift option, and I don't ask for insurance from the buyer. Insurance covers the seller, not the buyer.
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I just did a trade with a gold member here. I ship Priority mail with delivery confirmation and I made it where the person has to sign for it too. I feel that I have done everything to make sure they get the knife.
 
Using the "gift" is unethical. I always have all fees and shipping included in my asking price.
 
DJ66FTW said:
Using the "gift" is unethical. I always have all fees and shipping included in my asking price.
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+1.
There are some other forums that strictly enforces this. It is ok to incorporate the cost into the selling price but not openly ask a percentage to be added. I guess the forum does not want to be dragged in as providing a platform to defraud Paypal.
 
According to Paypal's user agreement you may not:

Ask the buyer to pay the fee's.

Offer different prices for non PP method's of payment if PP is a payment option.

Use the gift option for the sale of good's or anything other then a gift.

Pretty straight forward if you ask me. If it makes sense or not to some or some don't like it is irrelevant.

The practice of asking the buyer to pay the fee's, charging less or a different price to use a different payment method, or using the gift option are all against PayPal's TOS and could lead to one's account being closed or suspended.
 
I'm glad to see this thread - kind of a pet peeve of mine.

I'm new to this forum and knife collecting, but have been very active in a photography forum similar in scope and size of this one. It also has a very active marketplace section just like here. So, this subject has been around over there for some time. The end result over there was a rule was created that a seller can not ask for a "gift" payment as it is against PayPal policy.

Personally, I simply will not even reply to an ad that asks for a gift payment or for me the buyer to pay the PayPal fee. That's a shame since there have been a few items I would have liked to purchase.

For one, it is against PayPal policy. I've seen a couple members on the other forum get their accounts locked by PayPal for accepting too many gift payments. Next, when a person uses gift for payment, there is no buyer or seller protection. When you use the standard goods payment, both the buyer and seller come under the PayPal transaction protection policy. This is exactly like what you get when buying on eBay. This is very important in any transaction with a stranger.

Now...when I go to a grocery store etc., do they ask me to play the credit card transaction fee when I check out? I don't think so.

To me, when someone asks for a gift payment, it is an automatic red flag and I will move on. If they ask me to pay their transaction fee, I feel that is just childish and don't want to deal with people like that.

So simple - just figure out your cost for selling the item, and list the price of the item accordingly.
 
When I see "+3.5%" I figure it's someone who can't or is too lazy to do the math. If it says "paypal gift" I assume it's someone who is or at least sounds unethical. Plenty of knives out there to choose from so I pass them both by.
 
RevDevil said:
People have been asked to do this in the past, to no avail. Currently, there is no rule against asking for fees in addition to the cost of an item. It just makes the seller look like they can't do simple math in the end though. Add your fees, include your shipping and list one price. Don't make your potential buyers have to do math for you.
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Absolutely.

GronK said:
When I see "+3.5%" I figure it's someone who can't or is too lazy to do the math. If it says "paypal gift" I assume it's someone who is or at least sounds unethical. Plenty of knives out there to choose from so I pass them both by.
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Sadly, so do I. I don't know how many nice knives I have passed on, because of this. Once I see fees or gift option, I move on.
 
I factor in the fees when I price an item, that should be the ways it done. If you choose to pay gift you lose all protection and run the risk of getting scammed. Exceptions will be a forum friend that I trust. I CANNOT stand it when people ask for price x plus 4%. If I see that, I move on to the next ad. Actually, since the fee is 39 cents plus 2.9%, the fees are closer to 3% flat so even 3.5 is getting extra.
 
powernoodle said:
I'm scratching my head on that one. $100 + 3.5% is bad, but $103.50 is good?
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I ask for 3.5% but I always cover the shipping AND the insurance if a more expensive item. Sometimes, my shipping is $15. When someone buys from me, I then PM their total price which includes ONLY the 3.5%. I'm taking the hit...NOT the buyer.
I mean, if a I sell a folder for $225 in the thread, nobody wants me to ask for $232.88 instead, do they?
Hey, I don't have a smart-phone, but I can run a calculator.
Sonnydaze
 
powernoodle said:
I get that you don't like being asked to pay the fee. :thumbup:
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I basically agree with his logic. However, I do ask for 3.5%, but inform the buyer by PM what the total will be. It surely seems easier and cheaper than to require a postal money order...from the Main Post Office across town twenty miles.
The entire shipping and insurance is always on me, although I don't state this. I think the buyer should be delighted. Quite often, I've paid a total of fifty bucks per month for USPS shipping, which was a complete freebie for the buyers.
Sonnydaze
 
Sonnydaze said:
I ask for 3.5% but I always cover the shipping AND the insurance if a more expensive item. Sometimes, my shipping is $15. When someone buys from me, I then PM their total price which includes ONLY the 3.5%. I'm taking the hit...NOT the buyer.
I mean, if a I sell a folder for $225 in the thread, nobody wants me to ask for $232.88 instead, do they?
Hey, I don't have a smart-phone, but I can run a calculator.
Sonnydaze
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So do as serious retailers do. Round up and add some for the inconvenience. Lets see. $225 plus fees and list at $245. Nice and easy to understand and even leaves some wiggle room for the paranoids who always low ball and refuse to pay the asked amount no matter how low it is.
 
Ernie1980 said:
I factor in the fees when I price an item, that should be the ways it done. If you choose to pay gift you lose all protection and run the risk of getting scammed. Exceptions will be a forum friend that I trust. I CANNOT stand it when people ask for price x plus 4%. If I see that, I move on to the next ad. Actually, since the fee is 39 cents plus 2.9%, the fees are closer to 3% flat so even 3.5 is getting extra.
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It really depends on the amount. For something under $50, the fees amount to close to 3.5%. Once you get above $2300, the fee is under 3%.

I don't mind if the seller asks for the fees in the sale thread, I can estimate it before I type those 3 expensive words. What I hate, and will back out of a deal over, is when the seller doesn't post it but asks for when I get ready to pay.
 
You folks above asking for 3.5% in fees - not only are you asking the buyer to pay your fees for you, you are padding it. The fee is 2.9% plus $0.30...............
 
Lone_Wolfe said:
I do it the easy way, I say "$xxx net to me, shipped". And I use http://thefeecalculator.com to figure out how much to pay a seller.
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Easy for the seller, sure. As a buyer I compute it as lazy and a slimy way to attempt to avoid the 3.5 argument. Dont get me wrong, if the price is right, they can add 10% pp fees and ill buy. Regardless, there is no denying it makes it easiest for the buyer/customer to not have to do your math : )
 
Lone_Wolfe said:
I do it the easy way, I say "$xxx net to me, shipped". And I use http://thefeecalculator.com to figure out how much to pay a seller.
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And what exactly is easy about trying to divine just what the seller expects the buyer to pay for so the seller gets his/her "net" amount?
You say "$xxx net to me, shipped". Does that mean $xxx includes the shipping or not?
Am I paying for insurance "if I want it"? Because I don't care if you insure it or not, if it never arrives or it gets damaged in shipping, that's on you.
My PayPal fees run 2.228%, I have no clue what yours are. Should I assume you pay what I pay?
I have an even easier idea, see below.

coaltrain said:
And there is another term - if I see "net to me" in an ad I move on also.
Click to expand...

Same here.
 
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