Paypal, the forums, ethics, and you.

71rockstar said:
Agreed, someone wicked is taking their cut either way ;) The question is where does it stop? Dalton knives can be had in the exchange. A huge amount of BF members (including myself) don't agree with Mr. Dalton's marketing and beliefs. Should Dalton knives be barred from sale here? I don't believe so, we can choose as individuals whether or not we care to support his products. And if Paypal makes it easier for someone to pay the dues to become a forum member, then it makes the forum stronger. You may choose to not "tithe" your money to Paypal, but one of our brothers may be OK with it...
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But if I run the site, and I'm not okay with it, why should I accept it? ;)

The exchange is different, that's private sales.
 
Josh K said:
But if I run the site, and I'm not okay with it, why should I accept it? ;)

The exchange is different, that's private sales.
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Once again, agreed. The ultimate choice is on the one who runs the site, and whether or not he's OK with it....that's why we're even having this discussion.

Not sure I agree 100% on the exchange being that different, it's still part of the forum, still monitored for language and other shenanigans. The gentleman who runs the site could make decisions on what's OK to sell or trade, too....
 
71rockstar said:
Once again, agreed. The ultimate choice is on the one who runs the site, and whether or not he's OK with it....that's why we're even having this discussion.

Not sure I agree 100% on the exchange being that different, it's still part of the forum, still monitored for language and other shenanigans. The gentleman who runs the site could make decisions on what's OK to sell or trade, too....
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He could, but that's another ball of wax. :)
 
My 2¢ business opinion...yes. Almost everyone that has ever been on the ebay side of Paypal knows their self righteous ideology sucks...period. However, this has usually been directly related to Ebay and that sites foolishly imposed rules . While Ebay indeed owns Paypal, as a separate company Paypal does not regulate items (auction sites that sell guns and knives use them reguarly). Each company has it's own role.

If the object is to obviously draw new members and dues, well it's a no brainer...Paypals the biggest game in town. An old saying (at least where I come from), You may have to dance with the devil, but you don't have to let him lead. By that old token I simply mean that paypal takes a nice hefty chunk off the top (anywhere from 1.5% to 3%). That's direct loss from new membership dues. So revise and add that amount to new membership fees. You are simply talking a few more dollars to a member,whereby as a forum the loss in overall revenue can be hazardous. This especially IF the masses started using paypal for payment.

As for Paypal/Ebay politics...the hell with them. You don't have to agree with them, most don't. Strictly business 101 being A) good product B) good consumer C) good payment.
 
Since when did PayPal become a necessary business tool? I liken it more to a drug that people never realized was a drug until they got hooked on it. Does or does not just about every potential customer have a debit/credit card in the first place? Call me naive but I don't get it. It's the softification of America and there is going to be a price to pay [no pun intended]. Bet on it. -TCR
 
TCR, it's not a necessary business tool. This as nothing to do with Spark but for one like myself and many individuals who are not set up to accept CCs, it's a very valuable tool. Actually, I can accept CCs payments through my PP account. It's a pain and more expensive for an individual to set up a CC account.

I'm not arguing the point, it's just that folks need to dig a bit and look at all the facts about PP. I can find many more links like the one above but just don't want to spend the time.
 
I am against Paypal views towards guns ETC. but I have been using PP for over 6+ years without issues due to I have paypal tied to bank account & buying & selling on eBay so much easier than money orders or checks but Paypal is my mad money instead of having to use my Credit cards. totally up to you Kevin.
 
5.56 said:
I'll chime in, something you may or may not know. Paypal members can request a debit card that deducts from their account balance. This card works like a mastercard and everywhere mastercard is accepted.

BFC accepts mastercard, Paypal is already being used here for membership dues.

As far as politics go, I too disagree with Paypals stance on firearms. But then again, if I disassociate myself from every liberal in town, I would lose half my business and half of my friends and family. It's a tough call though.
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That is how I paid my dues.
 
TheCarbideRat said:
Since when did PayPal become a necessary business tool? I liken it more to a drug that people never realized was a drug until they got hooked on it. Does or does not just about every potential customer have a debit/credit card in the first place? Call me naive but I don't get it. It's the softification of America and there is going to be a price to pay [no pun intended]. Bet on it. -TCR
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I apologize if this has gone too far off topic.
PayPal is necessary for my business.
I sell high ticket items on eBay as part of my living. The average sale is about $500 and I have over 4000 sales in the last three years. 99% of those get paid through PayPal. They charge a reasonable discount rate and are the only company I can find that offers any real seller protection. I would not accept credit cards any other way for online sales.

Any of you accepting credit card numbers over the phone, or over the internet but NOT through PayPal (and not the PayPal Virtual Terminal either, it is not protected either), and think you are protected against chargebacks if the cardholder denies making the purchase, had better be real sure about that.
If you know of a CC processor who will pay you even if the card turns out to be stolen stolen, just as long as you can prove the item was delivered, please let me know.
 
Ok, it seems like the overwhelming response is to go ahead and use PP.

Like I said, I'm not fond of compromising my principles, but you overseas guys and lots of other customers have requested it... so barring any substatiative complaints, I believe we'll try it for a probationary period and see how it works.
 
Before stumbling across this thread, I was unaware of PayPal itself having any anti-gun, anti-weapon, anti-rights stance. I have used them for years because their merchant fees are less than any other gateway service i have looked into, a lot of people use them, and my customers do not have to join to use them to process an order.
I always thought the eBay anti-gun thing was more about liablility after a nasty legal incident that occurred.
All this is news to me.
I dont like supporting something that goes against my beliefs, but I also dont want to not use a good business service because they might not believe what I do... free country and all that you know... I dont ask my customers if they hunt or own guns or even believe in abortion... its none of my business.
 
TheCarbideRat said:
Wow! I think I heard some scuttlebut about how Spark was looking for an oracle, guess the search is over now.
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So PayPal changed it's anti-gun policies because of this site? When did that happen? C'mon, when I said important I meant people at PayPal. If you you can show me their heartfelt letter of apology I will eat my words. Cheers!
 
Josh K said:
These things cost money. :eek:
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Right now Bladeforums makes less money every time someone (like me) insists on using PayPal. As soon as paypal is available all that "dirty-anti-weapon" money could be used to fight the very company that provided it if Spark's really committed. I see no problem with him turning a profit either but ignoring something won't make it go away and that's all that's being done presently. Take my money!!! Do with it what you will. I like to pay direct from bank account and paypal lets me do that. If I could use debit here I would. I don't use my credit card. Save and buy.... no troubles in that lifestyle. -Dave
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
I have changed my mind, I didn't care before but Now I agree with Ken- let the customer jump through Paypal's hoops if they want to use it. The above poster highlighted the fact that having principles means something, not just something you do for show. . . the exact opposite of his view.
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It's all about walking-the-talk in this life. Talk is cheap. Talk online even cheaper. Cheers!
 
Don Hanson III said:
I hope it's OK to add a link here to a gun site :)

http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbull...-problems-comments/25054-paypal-anti-gun.html
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Great link and I wonder how many people here who hate PayPal so much also boycott eBay. I suspect they secretly or not-so buy knives for their collections on eBay and flame PayPal even though eBay sets PayPal policy. Maybe we should ban talk of any eBay auction item altogether but there wouldn't be much posted in "My Latest Schrade" thread to be sure. I'm done... I've added 200 cents. Cheers!
 
doesn't matter to me, i have no credit cards, debit cards, bank account, i use cold hard cash, barter, postal money orders or gold/silver.
 
LupaWolf said:
Before stumbling across this thread, I was unaware of PayPal itself having any anti-gun, anti-weapon, anti-rights stance. I have used them for years because their merchant fees are less than any other gateway service i have looked into, a lot of people use them, and my customers do not have to join to use them to process an order.
I always thought the eBay anti-gun thing was more about liablility after a nasty legal incident that occurred.
All this is news to me.
I dont like supporting something that goes against my beliefs, but I also dont want to not use a good business service because they might not believe what I do... free country and all that you know... I dont ask my customers if they hunt or own guns or even believe in abortion... its none of my business.
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Not everybody believes this. Did you read the link I posted? Have you done a little research for yourself?
 
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