Perfect survival rifle

My choice is my recently acquired Winchester model 06 "gallery gun," as it cycles cb caps. Also, it is very very mechanically simple and easy to keep clean. I realize this isnt the right forum, but anyone know how to find out how old it is and what its worth? Got it for $50 at a grage sale! all i can find out is it was made after '34, as the serial is "791xxx."
 
tallpaul said:
OOOH EVERYONE be afraid of the booger man :yawn:

They are not illegal in all areas - restricted yes. You sound like a typical guy who is afraid of it so you "poo -poo" the value of such restricted items is both under and over rated. I NEVER signed anything giving away my rights as far as search n siesure and in the over 15 years I have had my stuff the atf has never come a knockin. Nor have they any of my friends other than the class 2 dealer/manufacturers I know- and they were records keeping/security checks- not "witch hunts". If they want to see something they generally will make an appointment and if you are not bein looked at for other "activity" you only show the item they want to see. Not a sweep of all. If you are in gray areas or have other stuff goin on ya should worry. Most of us in the game do NOT- that is why we pay to be legal.

The paintbal and airgun silencers are an issue UNLESS they are done in permanent "shroud" form. The detatchable ones are the ones that have been deemed a problem by the batf.

So I would appreciate it for one if you and others quit spreading your tainted lies and paranoia about the class three world I beleive there is enough out there already
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First, I don't lie. And I don't apprecaite the inferance. If you don't do the paperwork, they are dreadfully illegal. period. When this thread turned this direction , not one person mentioned paperwork, transferees, etc.
they were saying it's legal, carte blanche legal.

It's better to warn people reading, as they may be 16 years old, not 46.
Consider your audience, for a moment.

I would appreciate it if YOU stopped telling me what to do, and what to write and NOT write. I am coveying that it is a serious undertaking. It's heavily regulated, and like it or not, you are on the Short List for the BATF.

Luckily when it comes to the paperwork involved, and the Tax, a lot of people opt out. There are some people that probably shouldn't own firearms at all, much less NFA's.
I don't know everyone reading this page, so I will err on the side of caution and explain the seriousness of it.

So, Why would I be afraid of it? I have been fingerprinted and filled out the ATF forms. I have a safe full of FireArms, all LEGAL. I'm a 25+ year member of the NRA, so don't guess as to what you think I am, what I am afraid of, or my motives. A fanatic is a fanatic, whether they are gun toters or left wing liberals try to make firearms illegal.

Tallpaul, When I was an FFL holder, back in the 80's, a buddy of mine was also a dealer, rules were more lax and we could hold FFLs out of our houses. My friend was also a legal Class 3 weapons dealer and owner. There was a shooting one night, they suspected a full auto, the place got sprayed. They pounded on his door at 230 a.m. with local authorities and Feds.

They confiscated his weapons, returned them about a month later.
All because he lived within XX miles of where it happened. So for all the stories trivializing it, my experience and message to people is not trivial.

I'm glad to hear you or your acquaintances haven't been hassled, very glad to hear it. That's how it should be. But for those out there simply reading an interent forum, it's better to lay it out in a serious tone and clarify the Law and the ramifications.

Again, think of your audience. Firearms ownership and weapons transfer is a serious matter. Period.

OK, sorry for a long post, but I will cut and paste, directly from the ATF website. For our readers, please note: An NFA firearm is any fully automatic weapon, receiver, associated parts that renders it full auto. A silencer, or even the parts of a silencer, are considered an NFA weapon. A sawed-off shotgun or rifle, under the legal length, also is an NFA weapon. The list goes on.

From the ATF (I'll highlight the good parts):
What are the required transfer procedures for an individual who is not qualified as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer of NFA firearms?[Back]

ATF Form 4 (5320.4) must be completed, in duplicate. The transferor first completes the face of the form. The transferee completes the transferee's certification on the reverse of the form and must have the "Law Enforcement Certification" completed by the chief law enforcement officer.

The transferee is to place, on each copy of the form, a 2-inch by 2-inch photograph of the transferee taken within the past year (proofs, group photographs or photocopies are unacceptable). The transferee's address must be a street address, not a post office box. If there is no street address, specific directions to the residence must be included.

If State or local law requires a permit or license to purchase, possess, or receive NFA firearms, a copy of the transferee's permit or license must accompany the application. A check or money order for $200 ($5 for transfer of "any other weapon") shall be made payable to ATF by the transferor. All signatures on both copies must be in ink.

Fingerprints also must be submitted on FBI Form FD-258, in duplicate. Fingerprints must be taken by a person qualified to do so, and must be clear and classifiable. If wear or damage to the fingertips do not allow clear prints, and if the prints are taken by a law enforcement official, a statement on his or her official letterhead giving the reason why good prints are unobtainable should accompany the fingerprints.

Forward the completed application and appropriate tax payment to the Bureau of ATF, P.O. Box 73201, Chicago, IL 60673.

Transfer of the NFA firearm may be made only upon approval of the ATF Form 4 by the NFA Branch. If the application is approved, the original of the form with the cancelled stamp affixed showing approval will be returned to the applicant. If the tax application is denied, the tax will be refunded.

Upon approval of the ATF Form 4, the transferor should transfer the firearm as soon as possible, since the firearm is now registered to the transferee.

[26 U.S.C. 5812, 27 CFR 479.84-86]
(end of cut n paste.)
I have been through this process, legally. I speak from first hand knowledge.
If you are active military, your prints are already on file, and (I think) they have a way of doing a cross-reference , but I'd have to re-check it, specifically.

So, if you want to give them your photo, fingerprints, pay your money, and all of that, YES, you can LEGALLY own an NFA weapon including a silencer. If you haven't followed this guideline, and do possess an NFA weapon, you are a federal criminal.

I'm not trying to scare anyone, only provide proper information and convey it as a serious matter, and it shouldn't be taken lightly.

If you'd like to know more what an NFA weapon could be, go here, and scroll down to Question Section "M" , question M1.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

I just don't make this stuff up, it's real. I am not afraid of the BATF, I own many firearms. But, I do have a very healthy respect for them and how they enforce the law.
I'm a law abiding citizen, just trying to help out others of the same.

I live less than 20 miles outside of Washington DC. I go through a lot of secure places, just like Runningboar mentioning the MP's at the gates at his base. If you are not "legal" , all it takes is a traffic stop, a case of mistaken identity and your world can turn to crappolla real fast.

My point to the readers, regarding silencers, is to do your homework and follow the guidelines and law. You CANNOT legally own a silencer in ANY jurisdiction unless you follow the ATF guidlines, it's a federal law. States can enforce even stricter laws. Stay legal.
 
Ok guys, sorry for all that, I just wanted to make sure that when we started posting about taking small game with "silencers" , there are legal ramifications to deal with.
Some readers already know all of this, some do not, and the last thing we want is for one of our readers to fabricate his own sound device, and then out of some bad coincidence or circumstance get into to some serious trouble.

It's just like when we discuss snares, we try to make sure everyone knows there are laws governing hunting and trapping, and not to go out without being aware of them.

Again, I apologize for the "lecture".
 
Those were my points exactly, though I maybe did not explain them well enough. The BATF is a regulating agency and they are serious. They don't eff around. If you build a can for the end of a .22 and don't follow the law, you are a felon. Felons loose all kinds of rights, most forever. You want to own firearms registered with the Federal government? Fine. Go for it. Knob Creek is a great place with a great bunch of responsible guys. But I cannot see the need for ME to own firearms and devices which trade rights for privilidges. When you get a license to do something, that is no longer a right. A right is what you don't have to ask permission and pay a tax to do.

Codger
 
Codger_64 said:
Those were my points exactly, though I maybe did not explain them well enough. The BATF is a regulating agency and they are serious. They don't eff around. If you build a can for the end of a .22 and don't follow the law, you are a felon. Felons loose all kinds of rights, most forever. You want to own firearms registered with the Federal government? Fine. Go for it. Knob Creek is a great place with a great bunch of responsible guys. But I cannot see the need for ME to own firearms and devices which trade rights for privilidges. When you get a license to do something, that is no longer a right. A right is what you don't have to ask permission and pay a tax to do.

Codger
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Codger, you are both succinct and eloquent! (But I'm still not kissing you):D
Very well put, to the point. I'm so damm long winded I lose people after the 3rd sentence. But yes, what you said.
We are thinking alike.

My added emphasis is on the youngster out there reading these forums, 18 yrs old, plinking in the back woods. I don't want to see him in big trouble because someone on the internet told him how to use or fabricate something he shouldn't be messin with.
 
No need to apologize. I started the whole argument with my first post. One can never be too careful. Especially when it comes to federal and state laws. I should be apologizing to runningboar for inadvertently hijacking his thread, and I do.

No foul intended.

So. Can we get back on topic?

Currently my only air rifle is a Crossman 760. It was a gift for my son some 5 or 6 years ago. It now gets used as a shotgunning training tool for myself and my 12-year-old daughter. I removed both front and rear sight and have begun to teach my daughter "point shooting". If one can hit a 3" target in the yard without looking "down the barrel", they are well on their way to being a proficient shotgunner (you point 'em, not aim 'em).

Its more of a tool to teach muscle memory, mounting and trigger control as opposed to the typical bench shooting where you have a sight plane, sights (or scope), and a bullseye at the receiving end.

I've had a few air rifles and regret getting rid of them. Its only later in life that you realize that bigger is not always better.

I traded my first firearm (Remington Nylon 66) for an RWS break action air rifle when I was about 16. The 66 was a gift and I had no idea what I was giving up. I abused that poor air rifle but it just kept on ticking. Eventually, I sold it (to repair the POS car I had, more than likely).

Luckily, the person I traded the 66 to was my uncle and he held on to it. I was lucky to reclaim it years later. Leson learned but I wish I had kept that .177. The stuff I distroyed with it in the back yard..."hmmm... I wonder what this would do to a matchbox car..." :p. It gave me more trigger time than the 22 could have in the city.

Chris
 
I don't believe I was arguing that you should not follow the law- only that you could with the proper paperwork get them and that they are not accross the board always illegal. As far as "the list" if you have been that active for that long you are already on "the list" don't kid yerself ;) and if ya are gonna say they are illegal and a hassle I or others will call you on it. They are restricted and illegal without just as I said so...
Don't want to be called a liar don't tell "half truths" even if to "protect" the ignorant- that is as bad as anything else.
 
Hey Rupe,

Yes, agreed, the air rifles don't have a loud report and can take small game all day long.
Someone else mentioned shooting CBs in their .22. In a .22 rifle they are very quiet. I can legally shoot .22lrs on my property (far enough away from other houses and with a berm backstop) and use CB longs just so that I don't attract attention or annoy any of the neighbors.

It's nice be able to shoot locally and safely with an air rifle, or .22lr whenever we get the urge.

Using the air rifle as "shotgun trainer" for the kids sounds like a winner.
 
Rupestris said:
Currently my only air rifle is a Crossman 760. It was a gift for my son some 5 or 6 years ago. It now gets used as a shotgunning training tool for myself and my 12-year-old daughter.
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That's interesting. I read a really good article on the web, about using air guns for practice, much as you describe. I'll be damned if I can find it, naturally :mad:
 
GibsonFan said:
That's interesting. I read a really good article on the web, about using air guns for practice, much as you describe. I'll be damned if I can find it, naturally :mad:
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Its been suggested by several folks on other forums. There are a couple articles at http://www.shootwhereyoulook.com/ but it looks as though they have stopped promoting the practice.

Bob Bristers book, "Shotgunning: The Art and the Science" touches on it. A very good read, BTW. I recommend it to everyone that wants to be a better shotgunner.

Its primary usage is to get a shooter used to more "instinctive" shooting where one can point a long gun as accurately as they can point their own index finger.
 
The article I read addressed handguns instinctively and was pretty helpful. For rifle practice, he was stressing more about sight picture, breathing, etc. The only problem with that is, it makes me realize the trigger on my Crosman feels like dragging an anchor through sand :D
 
tallpaul said:
Don't want to be called a liar don't tell "half truths" even if to "protect" the ignorant- that is as bad as anything else.
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Not sure the tone of name calling is really warranted in what should be a friendly discourse. The point can be made with less aggression. Is this an episode of Springer? :confused:
 
This is fun, my first gun was a Daisy Red Ryder .177, and I waged war on tweetie birds and coke bottles. My father raised hell with me for killing a tweetie for no good reason...and he made me clean up the coke bottles. I'm glad to hear you men are teaching your children better.

I had an FL back in the 90's for curios and relics. I got out of it because I could see BATF inspections coming down the road. All of my stuff today is traditional and legal and I just shoot at the firing range for the fun of it.

Skunk has raised a very good point about who reads these posts and what they bring away from it. I've read other posts on BFC and I know we have teenagers here who are picking up on things that us old farts say. We have to be careful what we say. We grew up in a generation where old men taught young men what to do and say, how to hunt, how to handle firearms, how to sit at dinner and how to behave ourselves around girls and women.

We should still do that, regardless of the common media.
 
Coldwood said:
We grew up in a generation where old men taught young men what to do and say, how to hunt, how to handle firearms, how to sit at dinner and how to behave ourselves around girls and women.

We should still do that, regardless of the common media.
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Here here!!

Well said.

Chris
 
Coldwood,

That is one of the biggest problems in our country today, IMO, the older generation is not teaching the younger. When I die I will still remember the lessons taught to me by my grandfathers and my father, too many kids today aren't getting those lessons, not only in the out of doors but life in general. Chris
 
SkunkWerX said:
Hey Rupe,

Yes, agreed, the air rifles don't have a loud report and can take small game all day long.
Someone else mentioned shooting CBs in their .22. In a .22 rifle they are very quiet. I can legally shoot .22lrs on my property (far enough away from other houses and with a berm backstop) and use CB longs just so that I don't attract attention or annoy any of the neighbors.
Click to expand...

FWIW, I find that CBs out of a long gun are as quiet or even quieter than my Benji .22. At a full 10 pumps, the Benji could release a relatively loud pop.

Another quiet cartridge is Aguila Colibri/Super Colibri. Even lower powered than CBs, they shoot a 20 grain pointed bullet up to around the 500fps mark. That puts these little rimfires near the range of a fairly powerful airgun. They supposedly have no powder, but fire from primer only. Super Colibris presumably have a bit more, as they are a tiny bit more powerful. Absolutely silent from a long gun. All you hear is the click of the firing pin and the impact of the bullet downrange. The only problem is that they are a bit "dirty" (primer residue) and might get stuck with a tighter bore. I have an old single shot BSA with a relatively long barrel and tight bore, and find with Colibris, I have to clean the barrel fairly often, lest I get a stuck bullet! But they fire fine out of my Marlin 39A.
 
shecky said:
FWIW, I find that CBs out of a long gun are as quiet or even quieter than my Benji .22. At a full 10 pumps, the Benji could release a relatively loud pop.

Another quiet cartridge is Aguila Colibri/Super Colibri. Even lower powered than CBs, they shoot a 20 grain pointed bullet up to around the 500fps mark. That puts these little rimfires near the range of a fairly powerful airgun. They supposedly have no powder, but fire from primer only. Super Colibris presumably have a bit more, as they are a tiny bit more powerful. Absolutely silent from a long gun. All you hear is the click of the firing pin and the impact of the bullet downrange. The only problem is that they are a bit "dirty" (primer residue) and might get stuck with a tighter bore. I have an old single shot BSA with a relatively long barrel and tight bore, and find with Colibris, I have to clean the barrel fairly often, lest I get a stuck bullet! But they fire fine out of my Marlin 39A.
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The (Regular) Colibri's package label states that they should only be used in handguns - And with good reason - They will sometimes get stuck in long bbls. I've had them stick (Since I ignored the warning :cool: ).

Also, I've never heard of anyone getting acceptable accuracy out of the Colibri's or Super Colibri's. I know I haven't. Watch them through a scope when fired (You can see them in flight through a scope since they're such low velocity) if you want a laugh. Talk about a corkscrew trajectory...
 
runningboar said:
Coldwood,

That is one of the biggest problems in our country today, IMO, the older generation is not teaching the younger. When I die I will still remember the lessons taught to me by my grandfathers and my father, too many kids today aren't getting those lessons, not only in the out of doors but life in general. Chris
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You sir, have made one of the most accurite statements I have heard here on these forums!

It angers me deeply that todays parents, or exusses of, take almost no time to spend with the children they brought into this world, to teach them lessons for the real world. Shooting among them. Even for a suburbanite with no acsess to a shooting range, how much trouble would it be to set up an airgun range in the basement, or go out to a deserted woodlot on a weekend afternoon with an airgun and teach your child how to shoot?

In addition to the airgun being an important tool in the food harvesting role, its worth its weight in gold for the shooting skills it would teach your child. In our juniors program at our Izaak Walton League, all the best .22 rifle shots of the youg kids, are ones who had an airgun before they got involved with the .22 junior league. It seems that the holy trinity of sight picture, breath control, and trigger squeeze, don't know if they are being practiced on a pump up air rifle, or a .22, or a scoped .308.
 
It seems that the holy trinity of sight picture, breath control, and trigger squeeze, don't know if they are being practiced on a pump up air rifle, or a .22, or a scoped .308.
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B.R.A.S.S. ;)
 
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