Pet peeves about knife discussions and youtube videos

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As a new member I honestly like threads like these. I think the op brought up some valid questions. That being said I've seen both good and bad reviews on You tube. Myself I prefer a good written review with pictures.
 
Krelldoggy said:
Part of what I was trying to get to was that I am not clear why being a fast and effortless flipper makes a knife a better tool. It seems to me that it just makes the knife more fun to play with...my XM-18 deploys one-handed very fast and with a satisfying feel and lockup. I have some ball bearing flippers that are totally fun but I fail to see what advantage they really have.
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I think this is a really excellent question.

I own an out the front knife and an older switchblade. I have them as a collector and obviously don't carry them locally. They're fun... No denying that.

But I see flippers are functionally equivalent. I don't understand what functional purpose this feature/design serves, outside of a martial/tactical purpose.

The Spanish Navaja was an early locking folder. Because it was a folder, it could be easily concealed. Because it locked, it could be used to stab. It was widely outlawed because of this, just as the switchblade in many places later. I wonder if the modern tactical flipper is on the same path. People watch enough NCIS reruns with Gibbs killing the bad guy with his monster ZT enough times and the tide could turn.

One hand open isn't the reason for the flipper. You can one hand open a lot slip joints and lockbacks easily. Even easier with thumbstuds and spydie holes. All we're talking about is speed, right? I don't get the need for it. When I'm working in my shop and trying to wrestle a bag of fertilizer into submission, sure.. It's easier to have a knife I can one hand open (Sodbuster, Opinel, Buck) but it's not like I need it snap open in a nano second to maintain the tactical advantage over the fertilizer.

Anyway... The speed of deployment is one of those easy to see aspects of fit and finish and it lulls people into thinking the rest of the knife is "quality". I don't get it.
 
pinnah said:
I think this is a really excellent question.

I own an out the front knife and an older switchblade. I have them as a collector and obviously don't carry them locally. They're fun... No denying that.

But I see flippers are functionally equivalent. I don't understand what functional purpose this feature/design serves, outside of a martial/tactical purpose.

The Spanish Navaja was an early locking folder. Because it was a folder, it could be easily concealed. Because it locked, it could be used to stab. It was widely outlawed because of this, just as the switchblade in many places later. I wonder if the modern tactical flipper is on the same path. People watch enough NCIS reruns with Gibbs killing the bad guy with his monster ZT enough times and the tide could turn.

One hand open isn't the reason for the flipper. You can one hand open a lot slip joints and lockbacks easily. Even easier with thumbstuds and spydie holes. All we're talking about is speed, right? I don't get the need for it. When I'm working in my shop and trying to wrestle a bag of fertilizer into submission, sure.. It's easier to have a knife I can one hand open (Sodbuster, Opinel, Buck) but it's not like I need it snap open in a nano second to maintain the tactical advantage over the fertilizer.

Anyway... The speed of deployment is one of those easy to see aspects of fit and finish and it lulls people into thinking the rest of the knife is "quality". I don't get it.
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I don't see my flipper knives as faster than any of my other easy one hand openers. They are about the same. I sure as heck ain't going to clock them! That said, I don't want to need to wrist flick them open. That is a personal preference. To each their own. It is just a different way of opening. My PM2, 0560, BM 915, Military, BM 710, Tuff, 550, deassisted 301 (yup!), BM 665, or CRKT Apache all open about as fast. Flippers, holes, studs (that sounds bad) all are very quick and one handed. They are not automatics though, or I would not be able to carry them. Do I need a wicked fast opening knife? Not really. The cardboard boxes, plastic wrap, frayed threads, tags, and pieces of wood aren't going anywhere quick. But what if they started to.......
 
Written knife reviews with pictures rule.

No written review describes the UPS box that the knife arrived in... nor does it describe the knife box itself.

Nobody types the word "UM..." or the word "Uhhh"... never. Certainly not repeatedly.

No photograph in a written review shows an arm and a table top, sans knife in question. Certainly not a dirty arm or table top.

As to the "silent review video", No written review comes in the form of "nothing but descriptionless photographs".

I simply can't watch knife review videos. Thank goodness for BFC.
 
Velitrius said:
Written knife reviews with pictures rule.

No written review describes the UPS box that the knife arrived in... nor does it describe the knife box itself.

Nobody types the word "UM..." or the word "Uhhh"... never. Certainly not repeatedly.

No photograph in a written review shows an arm and a table top, sans knife in question. Certainly not a dirty arm or table top.

As to the "silent review video", No written review comes in the form of "nothing but descriptionless photographs".

I simply can't watch knife review videos. Thank goodness for BFC.
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Well put. Have I mentioned Mistwalker? I just went through several of his reviews I have read before. Top notch.
 
craytab said:
And this is how it is with any consumer product. Computers, cars, washing machines, toilets, and yes, even knives. Is the Ferrari 10x better than the Honda? Nope. But when you get to that upper level of performance it gets more expensive to achieve. The consumer must decide if these increasingly slight gains in performance are worth the price, which is just an opinion of what one likes and thinks is beneficial.
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This is a reply to bubbagump as well, first I believe the people that pay the $2000 dollars and feel justified in doing so, have done nothing wrong in my eyes. I've considered what knife I'd want myself with an unlimited budget, because I'm willing to dedicate all of my spare money to make me happy, and what makes me happiest is knives.

That being said? *functional* quality does not go up after a certain point, to a measurable degree in use. For collection, sure. Names themselves carry weight, and thus a market is born.

But it cannot be reasonably argued that a the best $2000 dollar knife at a given task (aside from hyper specialized), will be 10x better than the best $200 knife in the same category.

And yes, the Ferrari is as good as its price vs. The other brand, but in a separate category. For value as an everyday driver for those on a normal budget? Couldn't pick worse, and the 10x cheaper toyota would be way better. But if you're a track day regular worth a budget that can swing it? You will notice the difference.

It feels like we're lumping together categories of "reason I bought this"
 
Jiggly hand-held cameras. Put the dang thing on a tree stump or rock if you can't afford a tripod and don't own a table.

Super-wide-angle views, particularly in closeups. Yeah, thanks. Now we know what a knife looks like when it's image is printed on a balloon and inflated.

Stammering and "uh, what was I saying?" moments. Write a dang script if you have to. And if you muck it up, delete and try again. It's not like we're in the 1930s and you can's afford to waste the film.

If you can't take videos or don't have a decent video camera, just use pictures. Good pictures in a slideshow would be better than most of the blurry, out-of-focus, super-wide-angle, portrait-view, camera-shaking, bare-feet-showing, poorly-edited videos on Youtube. Not just talking about knife videos either.

Also, keep the length under 30 seconds. :D
 
craytab said:
I don't see my flipper knives as faster than any of my other easy one hand openers. They are about the same. I sure as heck ain't going to clock them! That said, I don't want to need to wrist flick them open. That is a personal preference. To each their own. It is just a different way of opening. My PM2, 0560, BM 915, Military, BM 710, Tuff, 550, deassisted 301 (yup!), BM 665, or CRKT Apache all open about as fast. Flippers, holes, studs (that sounds bad) all are very quick and one handed. They are not automatics though, or I would not be able to carry them. Do I need a wicked fast opening knife? Not really. The cardboard boxes, plastic wrap, frayed threads, tags, and pieces of wood aren't going anywhere quick. But what if they started to.......
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This is what I was trying to get at earlier, with a small amount of wrist I consistently flip open my knife with great speed. I am happy with that, but the way I see flippers judged nowadays is by whether or not they are as easy (and brainless) as automatic knives. Just push a button/lever.

I always thought a little wrist was part of the fun of opening a knife one-handed. I guess I am challenging the idea of valuing a knife that is explicitly designed to be a toy. It may be unfair as we all appreciate beautiful blades and that certainly has little relationship to utility.
 
So a knife that can be opened without wrist action and a comforting "thwack" is by design a toy?
 
There was a guy who wore a buck 110 sheath full of earplugs. He kept reminding everyone to use earplugs.
 
I can open my flippers that require wrist action and my flippers that don t both in one second or less. Regardless of semantics, I think krelldoggy01 has a point.
I also agree that a one to one ratio between handle length and blade length is useless for most people.
Nice thread,op. It seems you ve touched on a topic many feel strongly about.
 
Kwon Kwang said:
I think caring too much about blade to handle ratio is a silly aesthetic thing. Some of the best knives ever made have a low blade to handle ratio (looking at you, PM2!).
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I happen to be someone who thinks its not silly,but acknowledge its absolutely an aesthetic thing having little to do with performance. Personal taste/opinion is just that. As long as it's not passed on as fact, there's no harm.
 
Not really a pet peeve, and I suspect a lot of people will disagree but I don't understand the obsession so many have with blades falling closed under their own weight. I can see that some would equate this with smooth action and easy flipping. However I have several flippers that rocket out when flipped (no wrist action necessary) yet don't swing closed when unlocked. They are on phosphor bronze washers and are super smooth but not as free swinging as ball bearings and I actually prefer it this way. I understand that is easy enough to get your thumb out of the way when the blade is closing but there are times when you just aren't paying as close attention as you should be (or maybe have had one too many beers). I just don't see the need to have your thumb play chicken with a razor sharp blade. I unlock with my thumb and then a slight nudge with my index finger and the blade swings closed
 
trevitrace said:
So a knife that can be opened without wrist action and a comforting "thwack" is by design a toy?
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Certainly would not say that. What I am not clear about is the utility of a push button flipper. It seems designed simply to be played with rather than as something useful. I admit I like to do this very thing, but I would love to hear how that feature imparts additional quality to the knife.
 
epetrillo said:
Not really a pet peeve, and I suspect a lot of people will disagree but I don't understand the obsession so many have with blades falling closed under their own weight. I can see that some would equate this with smooth action and easy flipping. However I have several flippers that rocket out when flipped (no wrist action necessary) yet don't swing closed when unlocked. They are on phosphor bronze washers and are super smooth but not as free swinging as ball bearings and I actually prefer it this way. I understand that is easy enough to get your thumb out of the way when the blade is closing but there are times when you just aren't paying as close attention as you should be (or maybe have had one too many beers). I just don't see the need to have your thumb play chicken with a razor sharp blade. I unlock with my thumb and then a slight nudge with my index finger and the blade swings closed
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I agree with this. There seems to have been a determination somewhere that a very loose knife is "right" because is facilitates the all-important push button flipper feature. Glad to see the Hinderers and Reeves of the world not participating.
 
G III said:
This is a reply to bubbagump as well, first I believe the people that pay the $2000 dollars and feel justified in doing so, have done nothing wrong in my eyes. I've considered what knife I'd want myself with an unlimited budget, because I'm willing to dedicate all of my spare money to make me happy, and what makes me happiest is knives.

That being said? *functional* quality does not go up after a certain point, to a measurable degree in use. For collection, sure. Names themselves carry weight, and thus a market is born.

But it cannot be reasonably argued that a the best $2000 dollar knife at a given task (aside from hyper specialized), will be 10x better than the best $200 knife in the same category.

And yes, the Ferrari is as good as its price vs. The other brand, but in a separate category. For value as an everyday driver for those on a normal budget? Couldn't pick worse, and the 10x cheaper toyota would be way better. But if you're a track day regular worth a budget that can swing it? You will notice the difference.

It feels like we're lumping together categories of "reason I bought this"
Click to expand...

The bolded is exactly what I said. No, it won't be 10x better. it is an exponential gain. As the reason a knife cost more goes up, the price will go up faster than the perceived gains in value (quality, materials purtiness, ect...).

Imagine the y axis is price while the x axis is perceived value (quality, materials purtiness, ect...):

exp1.gif


No doubt there is some term for this that I have long forgot and there is no way I am getting out my old econometrics book.

Like I said, this is how most consumer products are. Take a computer meant for gaming. The computer costing ten times more isn't going to play the game 10x better but it will eke out the last bits of graphics that the cheaper computer can't. Is that important to you? If so you are going to have to pay for it. For most people the computer playing the game just fine at 10x less will do. Rise over run is not one to one.

And what it all comes down to is if the item sells. If it does, it has that value. Maybe not to you or me but to someone and that is all that really matters.

krelldoggy01 said:
This is what I was trying to get at earlier, with a small amount of wrist I consistently flip open my knife with great speed. I am happy with that, but the way I see flippers judged nowadays is by whether or not they are as easy (and brainless) as automatic knives. Just push a button/lever.

I always thought a little wrist was part of the fun of opening a knife one-handed. I guess I am challenging the idea of valuing a knife that is explicitly designed to be a toy. It may be unfair as we all appreciate beautiful blades and that certainly has little relationship to utility.
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Seriously?

trevitrace said:
So a knife that can be opened without wrist action and a comforting "thwack" is by design a toy?
Click to expand...

krelldoggy01 said:
Certainly would not say that. What I am not clear about is the utility of a push button flipper. It seems designed simply to be played with rather than as something useful. I admit I like to do this very thing, but I would love to hear how that feature imparts additional quality to the knife.
Click to expand...

Um, you just did say that though :confused:

A button and a flipper are different things just like an automatic and a flipper. Value is that it is more easy to open a flipper with no wrist movement. I bet we could even get real scientific with lab testing and stuff to show the calories saved and the wear & tear reduced on ligaments, muscles, and bones :D

And if the knife is easier to open at no additional cost and with no loss of strength lots of people will find that as a quality and will value it more. You don't, and that is fine, but you must at least conceptually understand why many might. Just like I understand why you don't. I don't agree with your preference but I understand why you have it.
 
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