Philosophy of expensive large thick chopper?

RayseM said:
I just bought a heavy Seigle chopper - http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1370422-JA-Baker-and-Bill-Siegle-too-PHOTOS-Yes-Sir!

This is definitely not a hiking tool but for my backyard and trail work it is ideal. I could see having it in a campsite too - if it was a drive in :rolleyes:.

Will easily out chop an axe with a greater degree of versatility and control. Not for felling 6" or bigger trees but for anything smaller and branches it is a most excellent tool. I bought the Seigle to replace a machete that I had been using for the past 15 years or so. All my little stuff is cleared out so a more rugged blade seemed appropriate. I'm loving using the Seigle.

And there you have my - "Philosophy of expensive large thick chopper"
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I'm sorry, man, but all things being equal it won't outchop an axe. The physics just aren't there. I'm with you on the versatility, though.
 
RX-79G said:
My point was that large AND thick blades have never been the preferred choice for living off the land.
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Kukris...and no, they are not thin in general.
Kukri machetes are thin.

If you don't want a thick knife, don't buy one.
You don't need any justification for not wanting one.

But to invent a historical backing for not wanting one seems silly.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I'm sorry, man, but all things being equal it won't outchop an axe. The physics just aren't there. I'm with you on the versatility, though.
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I agree but I did try to qualify my point - apparently not effectively - that was to say, specific to the small chopping I am doing. I would not want to chop a branch off with an axe. One more qualifier - I - others might go about it differently.

I've edited my post to be more accurate to my way of thinking on the matter. Thanks for keeping me straight :thumbup:
 
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RayseM said:
I agree but I did try to qualify my point - apparently not effectively - that was to say, specific to the small chopping I am doing. I would not want to chop a branch off with an axe. One more qualifier - I - others might go about it differently.
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Yep, all depends what you're chopping.

For a giant log or massive tree, then a full-sized axe is awesome. :thumbup:

For much of the things I chop on woods excursions, I find the Junglas does better (in terms of energy spent, number of hits, etc.).
A nice sharp saw is better than an axe or knife for certain types of cutting...

One-size-fits-all rules are stupid, as they ignore the variables that real life and varying tasks entail.
 
RayseM said:
I agree but I did try to qualify my point - apparently not effectively - that was to say, specific to the small chopping I am doing. I would not want to chop a branch off with an axe. One more qualifier - I - others might go about it differently.

I've edited my post to be more accurate to my way of thinking on the matter. Thanks for keeping me straight :thumbup:
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Okay, I'm with you once again. For quick limbing a large knife or machete can just be tons easier than an axe.
 
stabman said:
Kukris...and no, they are not thin in general.
Kukri machetes are thin.

If you don't want a thick knife, don't buy one.
You don't need any justification for not wanting one.

But to invent a historical backing for not wanting one seems silly.
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Translation: Let's not discuss anything on the discussion forum.
 
knarfeng said:
I think it is a change in philosophy.
Decades ago when I used to backpack, the idea was to leave as little trace of your passage as possible so that the next person could enjoy the scenery as much as you did.

Anymore it almost seems to me as if the philosophy is to conquer the wilderness instead of enjoy it.

So where I carried an SAK or small hunting knife, folks now need to carry big choppers.
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While I'm sure it's done by some, I don't use my BK9 for bushwhacking. It's mostly for processing wood at camp. If I know I'm going off trail and need to cut through some growth I'm going to use a machete. It's just better suited to the task.

If I'm sticking to a trail though, it's still a leave no trace philosophy.
 
RX-79G said:
Translation: Let's not discuss anything on the discussion forum.
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Discuss whatever you want.

Expect to be called on silly justifications with made-up facts though...that comes with discussion.
 
theAntihero said:
How so? I didnt take it as such
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"Don't buy it if you don't like it" is a typical forum "shut up" tactic.


And it hardly changes the fact that nothing like a BK2 has EVER been considered useful in the woods until recently. And I've never seen a kukri with the main blade 1/4" thick, either.
 
RX-79G said:
"Don't buy it if you don't like it" is a typical forum "shut up" tactic.

And it hardly changes the fact that nothing like a BK2 has EVER been considered useful in the woods until recently. And I've never seen a kukri with the main blade 1/4" thick, either.
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It is not a "shut up" tactic...I just tell people to shut up when I intend that. :)

You must not have seen many kukris, certainly not any traditional ones if you haven't seen any with blades thicker than 1/4 inch. You are just plain wrong about that, as well as your blanket assertion about thick blades being a symptom of modernity.

But don't shut up just because you're wrong. ;)
 
theAntihero said:
I'm pretty sure every traditional kukri is over 1/4 inch wide on the spine....
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Damn you and your factual measurements! :D

If people said "In the location I live, knives of (whatever thickness) weren't commonly used until now," they might very well be correct.
When they make blanket assertions regarding what humans have used traditionally on a global scale, they are almost always going to be wrong.
 
RX-79G said:
"Don't buy it if you don't like it" is a typical forum "shut up" tactic.


And it hardly changes the fact that nothing like a BK2 has EVER been considered useful in the woods until recently. And I've never seen a kukri with the main blade 1/4" thick, either.
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All traditional older kukris where thick and heavy. That's what made them formidable weapons. It been the modern trend to thin them out.
 
Did you need one? It's impossible to convey tone of voice through a post. Are you genuinely curious or attempting to make argument that batoning is not possible with an axe because you don't do it?

The tone , the tone.
It's impossible to know.

Hahaha

Take care.
 
Spyder59 said:
All traditional older kukris where thick and heavy. That's what made them formidable weapons. It been the modern trend to thin them out.
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Historical kukris are all over the map in terms of thickness. Thick is great...except when it isn't. Thin is great...except when it isn't. Certain degrees of curvature and belly are great...except when they're not. Kukris come in all kinds of flavors, and it's been that way for a loooooong time. The functional context was what decided the best traits for the tool, and those vary region to region, and person to person because of the specific tasks they intend for it. It's the same for any broad-spectrum hand tool, really.
 
SMOKING said:
I see very little practicality of the very thick knife like 5/16 inches thick with 8-12 inches blade lenght.

They are weight pretty much the same to a good axe while the axe will out chopped/out batoned them by large margin.

They are also not very good in the kitchen and too big to put in the bag and go hiking.
Well made medium size fixed blade can get the baton work done too while being much more comfortable to carry.

They barely a good self defense tool


Or just because some people have buck to spend on some cool zombie behead gear?
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I think on the contrary all you keep hearing about is 4-5" fixed blades that are pounded on to cover for their being unable to chop...

If a fixed blade is going to be as small as at or under 5", why not make it a folder? A fixed blade is cumbersome no matter how short it is...

Longer blades also have longer edge-holding... But where you are most wrong is how long knife blades are badly out-chopped by a similar weight hatchet: Not that huge a difference, because a good thin-edged blade cuts by finesse:

PA266683_zpsqsvlqvuz.jpg


Note how far the 7.4" knife is from the 8.9" knife: For a 1.4" shortfall, the loss is around 70% of the performance... The larger-than-folder 5" to 8" range really makes no sense at all, with 70% losses for 20% gains, unless you want a pure fighter that is as light as possible...

A knife is bulky in only one dimension compared to an axe, and far more versatile. Big knives are obviously not that popular these days, so it's not like they are in your face anyway...

Gaston
 
Hi! I think "large" choppers, where I hike and camp in the Alps, are mostly for fun. No real practical use except that of having fun in chopping down a tree that way :). For me, their real possible use overlap very much an axe and their size and weight is not necessarily less. As far as strength and ability to withstand use and abuse, I’d still prefer an axe to a long bladed knife. If I need serious clean cut wood (e.g. poles for shelter or wind screens, slats for a suspended makeshift bed, etc.), I’d prefer my Felco foldable saw. For real camp chores, beyond the chopping fun :p, I would anyway need to pair any large chopper with a small blade (8-12 cm), fix or foldable. Good luck otherwise (and praise to the skills I don’t have :D), with whatever simple food prep or carving and whittling tasks! Machetes I agree, they have a meaning in specific environments. "Expensive" is for me difficult to define and comment :) . This said, it's true, large choppers are very fun :) !
 
For light chopping duties, a large knife is much easier to use than a hatchet or axe. Ever wonder why all the primitive cultures in the world used/use machetes, kukris, and large knives? Because they work well.

With that said, I agree with the OP that 5/16" is too thick. That much steel is not necessary, especially now that we have access to so many great tough steels.
 
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