Philosophy of expensive large thick chopper?

22-rimfire said:
Love these big knives. Thanks for the pictures.
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You're welcome. ;):thumbup::cool:

I'm still working on the handle for the cleaver style blade (second from the right) it is a 12" X .250 blade of S7 steel so it's too thin for this discussion LOL. :D:D:D:D

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A group of cheap and cheerful choppers (except for the Hisshou LOL) the Rambo 4 knife is the reason I posted this pic... I've used this knife for things that a knife shouldn't ever be used for; from chopping up and old barbecue steel drip tray to an old toilet seat LOL...

I believe it's the United Cutlery version; the markings were ground off and I bought it at a flea market so there was no way to check authenticity. :foot:

It's 3/8" across the spine, if even a bit thicker than that... Or .375" for those working in decimals. ;)

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FWIW, the bbq drip tray demo chipped the edge on my busse NMFBM but not the R4 cleaver; I think mostly due to how thick the edge is on the R4.... Obtuse as heck. :foot::o
 
:D I believe the correct way of saying is 0.5" (that 5/10ths of an inch) or if you say "thousands", it would be 500 thousands/inch. It is much like saying something is 10 centimeters versus 0.1 meters. But it is a small thing and I really don't care much one way or the other.
 
22-rimfire said:
:D I believe the correct way of saying is 0.5" (that 5/10ths of an inch) or if you say "thousands", it would be 500 thousands/inch. It is much like saying something is 10 centimeters versus 0.1 meters. But it is a small thing and I really don't care much one way or the other.
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Haha, clear as mud then... ;):p

So, for clarification; the chopper is half an inch thick. :D:rolleyes:

I need to do a spine shot/comparison photo with some other fat blades LOL.

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stabman said:
Of course it's on land I don't own; I live in a one bedroom apartment...my "land" is a concrete balcony.

The trash other people have put there consists of the occasional alcohol container...except for whatever doofus left a large tarp that had to be cut up and packed out; that was a chore, but I did it because I consider it my site.

As for 5-10 years, well, I've already kept going there for over 5 years; unless I move somewhere else, it's going to continue being the spot I go to.

As far as I see it, for authorization, I authorized it, and that is really the only authorization I tend to consider valid anyway. ;)

As for legacy going far into the future, we'll all be dead (unless my immortality plans pan out better than previous people's have), and then it will be reclaimed by nature in a very short time.
I have seen old industrial sites that consisted of buildings, roads and other infrastructure in the process of nature taking it back; it goes a lot quicker than most people think.

For some reason, people look to the past and see the pioneers of this land as mighty people--heroes almost--and marvel at the enormous, centuries old trees they tore down.
Some of those same people would consider me an environmental criminal for establishing a camp site, one that I have continued to use and maintain for years. Seems to be a disconnect.

You see, I'm not out there destroying heritage trees; all the biggest trees that have toppled out there fell due to storms and old age, including the one that fell right where my original shelter was. That was a damn big tree.

As I see it, anyone who lives in more than a one bedroom apartment and owns a car has zero moral right to judge my impact on the world. Despite my overall minimal impact being due to lack of cash more than any high-minded choice, I am still impacting the planet far less than the vast majority of North Americans.

And if it will make all the people happier, then if I move far away, I will haul out all the cinderblocks and bricks from the site...we had to carry them in there for the fire-pit in the first place, due to the extraordinary lack of rocks out there. I will even dig up the charred soil, and pack it out too (we always carry plenty of stuff normally, so it wouldn't be that bad if we left the gear due to doing a site restoration).
Hell, I'll even bring in some top-quality top-soil and plant a damn tree where the fire-pit used to be!

But that won't be happening any year soon, unless I suddenly win a huge lottery and move away. For the foreseeable future, it will remain my spot. :thumbup:
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Good job man! As a fellow Canadian, I approve of this use of crown land!

Edit: on topic: Big Knives Are Awesome
 
Quite the beast at 500 thousands of an inch. :D Sorry if I wasn't clear. It is the decimal point that makes your "0.500 thousands of an inch" incorrect. As you said.... it's 1/2 inch thick.
 
22-rimfire said:
Quite the beast at 500 thousands of an inch. :D Sorry if I wasn't clear. It is the decimal point that makes your "0.500 thousands of an inch" incorrect. As you said.... it's 1/2 inch thick.
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Next time I'm taking a picture holding up a measuring tape across the spine. LOL. :thumbup::foot:;)
 
The Gurkha don't find them useless. But I guess they don't know what makes a good all purpose wilderness blade. Yeah, useless. Someone should go tell them how horrible they are at life. I don't think this thread will fix them.
 
ursamajor said:
The Gurkha don't find them useless. But I guess they don't know what makes a good all purpose wilderness blade. Yeah, useless. Someone should go tell them how horrible they are at life. I don't think this thread will fix them.
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Aren't Gurkas soldiers and their knives are weapons? I didn't get the impression that the Gurkas guarding the ship I was on were about to build wood shelters in the port of Dubai with their kukris. All they carried were guns and kukris.

The US Marines, in contrast, didn't carry any large knives at all for guard duty in Dubai and Bahrain.
 
RX-79G said:
Aren't Gurkas soldiers and their knives are weapons? I didn't get the impression that the Gurkas guarding the ship I was on were about to build wood shelters in the port of Dubai with their kukris. All they carried were guns and kukris.

The US Marines, in contrast, didn't carry any large knives at all for guard duty in Dubai and Bahrain.
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The Kuks are whatever they need then to be.
 
ursamajor said:
The Kuks are whatever they need then to be.
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Sure. And they take different shapes and sizes depending on who is using them for what. But as it was pointed out earlier in this thread, kukris tend to be thick to make them (in part) a better weapon. Given the dual role of weapon and utility blade, it might be fair to surmise that the thickness is not about making them a more effective bush tool, but making them a better weapon. Like the Bowie.


While we can argue particulars, the general pattern is that dedicated field tools tend to not be overly thick. One of the best counterexamples, the Hudson Bay knife, is flat ground and very tall, making most of the blade still relatively thin. This goes somewhat against the grain of many of the currently fashionable "choppers" that have a saber grind.

I think it could be argued that some of these large knives make for clumsy carving/hunting knives, inefficient hatchets and tiringly heavy machetes. Which is, I believe, what the OP was getting at. Overall, it isn't clear what their ideal role as an outdoor tool might be.

But people do have fun with them.
 
d762nato said:
Thanks for the video I've admired Kiku Matsuda blades for some time now and they are quite beautiful. Did you purchase one?
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The beauty was really the in-hand-feel and balance of everything that was put into his designs. They might "look" good, but they SCREAM use me, USE ME NOW !!

Short Answer: Unfortunately no, the opportunity eluded me.

Longer Detailed Answer (for those that may have interest):
Day-1 Forge Event (Friday)
Day-2/3 The Show (Sat/Sun)

I went to the show the first & second days more "for the event". I even brought a number of knives thinking maybe some trade options might present themselves (I laugh now remembering how guilty I felt about that thought). I was blown away by the quality and designs that the makers brought to this show (none of the Medford, Strider, Marifone, etc. type stuff that I see Youtube'd from other shows across the country, including those silly raffles to buy a knife at a fair maker price only to turn a f'ing fast profit). It's my understanding this show was a by invitation event (makers). Needless to say I was very unprepared for what I was to experience here. Had wondrous opportunity the second evening to sit at dinner & drinks with a number of the makers (most I discovered to be "Master Blade Smiths" or "Journeyman Smiths" - for those that do not understand, this is a significant accomplishment), who many were fairly proud to have acquired a G&G knife that they adored (same model I purchased day-1). I used the word "discovered", specifically because I found these folks did not openly proclaim these qualifying accomplishments but told stories of their other fellows accomplishments in reaching these goals (cool stuff).

So, I decided to drive up for the third day (after transferring various funds to cash). Had my sights set on 3-4 knives I had handled day-2 (not that I could afford that many, but many just one cherry), and because I saw nobody videoing anything at this event planned to shoot a little to share my experience.

No-1 was that Kiku Matsuda Bolo-Chete in San-Mai Stainless Damascus over SG2 core (SuperGold2 - the one in the video). For me, this was the knife that really spoke to me day-2. It was translated to me that this knife was actually a commissioned piece to be later delivered at BladeShow. I think it interesting to find out my body size/structure very similar to the person this knife had been built for (confirmation as to why it felt soo good to me). I had been working on blade re-profiles of a couple similar blade-profile knives, testing them, then progressively thinning them and testing again so had very specific interest in this general blade profile. Had I been able to test the two back-to-back (including the thick example in the video) I may have taken the other in the .31" stock (kinda of a ridiculous consideration I thought, but maybe I shoudda just asked ...?).

No-2 was the G&G Deadlock OTF, but pretty much the same scenario. The only one(s) at the show were brought to the show for delivery (amazing solid work here, especially considering how long this design has been around and it's taken this long to make it sooo good).

No-3 was a very off the wall design that was more akin to a strait-razor design amplified into folding-knife with Ti scales. I just had too hard a time justifying (like when you meet "that" girl, as a married man with family already). It was a really sick design, that interestingly check a number of the boxes on some of my list. But, was ... well, like "that" girl ... ;-)

Please understand, the rankings I have placed here are merely a simple ranking of where I considered letting go some cash. Many other knives, one could say, were much nicer (these just the ones I would have dropped cash).

I came away with only one new knife :-0 and a new appreciation for what I honestly may have previously discounted as over priced artsy-fartsie blades. These were exceptional examples of high-end knives made by trained makers who I believe designed with expectation they would be used and used hard. It is so refreshing when we are willing to open up and learn maybe "the less we KNOW, the more we learn".

3-day show began on Friday as an open forge event. Was "hot" being able to watch guys/gals in a knife forge off (four makers going head to head with red hot iron in a timed event).
Kudos to Daniel O'Malley of Epicurean Edge for hosting such a GREAT event !!

I was able to shoot a few videos of the show consolidated at this playlist link. Unfortunately not with my DSLR, but at least something to document a few of the makers tables (should be ~21-videos).
Andrew Meers stuff was quite intricate, and much the talk of many of the makers over dinner (he won best of show).

Link to playlist of a few vid's of makers tables:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKO2m4TQ_9r77frC2ksdSBzNB9KA0WPwU
 
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Anyone familiar with Dan Keffeler; this guy makes some mean fat choppers:

Half inch thick beast up top if I'm not mistaken...

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pinnah said:
I disagree.

Making a wood fire is never a necessity. If it was, people would not be able to ski across Antarctica or climb the high peaks. All that is needed is adequate skill and knowledge of clothing, tents and stoves. Wood fires are a choice and always optional.

The issue of wood fires resolves to what can be sustained locally, which varies dramatically and is impossible to generalize. Even in the verdant New England woods, you can easily see the damage that has been done by people harvesting just a few sticks over and over again near established camp sites.

I recall a trip several years ago in some easy to walk to ponds and passing 3 different parties doing the tarp and hammock thing and all camped right next to water and all tending smokey fires with the requisite piles of (mostly) dead fall wood in various states of being processed. No amount of hiding of those fire pits will really hide the damage. Those folks picked those sights because they made sense and our woods don't offer much choice and next weekend, that sight will likely get used again.

For our woods, an alcohol stoves almost always works, even in the winter. Really minimal impact both locally and globally.

If a fire is really desired, a twig stove dramatically limits harvesting and ash impact.
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Small fires, properly cleaned up after and well controlled are my favorite way to cook food out in the woods. We may have different ways of trekking, as I don't find myself carrying (or needing) a stove or fuel. Sometimes the food I eat Isn't easily prepared on a small burner, and those stoves are only so good to warm yourself in the freezing rain or snow. A fire can save your life, and/or make a trip more pleasant. I suppose If i was hiking just to rack up miles I would take a stove but I go mostly for just being out there.

As far as twig fires go, they suck in the rain and where I am it's mostly raining or just have rained. Sometimes, even for my little firebox stove where I feed in sticks hardly bigger than my thumb I have to split down 5inch+ logs to get to dry wood. Even in bigger fires I try to keep them small and low-impact, only getting bigger if I can find the fuel.

I suppose we will always disagree, but I like to rely on my skills and tools than a 40 lb pack of stoves and such.
 
Spey said:
When it comes to handling and first-hand-use of a large knife, I wholeheartedly disagree that a 25% increase in spine thickness is "pretty meaningless"
AND with more use I have found the significance becomes even greater.
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5/16" vs 1/4" is meaningless for performance, except regarding overall geometry, because blade width, edge thickness, profile type, all play a far bigger role than the difference between those two:

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Here is an 18 ounce Randall Model 12 (shaved down handle, so lighter than specs), blade thickness 0.22", vs a 17 ounces Trailmaster SMIII at 5/16": Same number of hits: The Trailmaster was much sharper than it came stock: It still had no hope against something like the Model 12, it is not even close, so yes I woud say in this case the blade thickness is meaningless, as the difference in blade thickness here is from 0.22 to 0.31, more like 40%, and still the Trailmaster has less than 50% of the performance of a 40% thinner blade.

That being said, I do consider 3/16" as close to unacceptable for a knife intended for chopping... All else being equal, a range between 0.22" and 0.25" seem close to ideal: The Lile Mission here is 0.25", and a thickness of 0.31" would be taxing in geometry even for this very wide 2" wide blade: On a flat ground blade, what you gain in momentum you lose in geometry: I would say that just as I don't like 3/16", I don't like 5/16", but that doesn't mean a high performance knife could not be made out of either thicknesses, just that the thickness would be a hindrance rather than a help.

The Trailmaster blade is way too narrow to be 5/16" and flat ground, and this is evident in the geometry being inherently dull: It just got duller and duller the more I re-sharpened it, even if it shaved easily... The Model 12 is by contrast completely indifferent to sharpening wear, but that is because of its deep hollow grind, which makes this issue completely independent of what thickness it has at the spine... On a flat ground blade it is another issue, and 5/16" is a bad thing for geometry, unless the blade is very wide, as in at or over 2 inches...

Gaston
 
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