Photos! Post your CPK photos here!

Bob (and others), I have a sincere question. Why does that dagger represent the pinnacle of the craft? I am not knowledgeable at all about them, so I am wondering why it is so highly regarded.

That question comes from wanting to know why it is, but not doubting at all that it is, in fact, remarkable among remarkable knives. Can you point out some of the things that would escape most folks (like me)?

Thank you.
 
I'm gonna give you my two cents.

IMO, It doesn't.

It's remarkably symmetrical in a way that is nearly impossible to execute. The inlaid handles are extremely old and rare, old Westinghouse micarta but you could buy that much material for probably $300 or less. It's not a rare exotic super steel though it's good regardless.

What is remarkable about it is how well it was executed.

It was sold for $1500 and I think that is a good price for it and I would have paid that much for it myself.

At heart I'm much more of a folder guy. And I'm not too much into a knife that I won't really use. So I will pay more for a user than I will for a knife only intended for decoration. So to me a folder that is executed perfectly, functions mechanicaly perfect and aestheticly pleasing is a much larger accomplishment which is probably why I have a folder in my pocket I paid $3000 for and the most expensive fixed blade I have was about $800ish.

Love Nathan's designs, love his ability to execute, love the LA collabs and am excited to see where their journey will lead.
 
The symmetry, IMO, is what makes it amazing. There's so much going on, and it's all mirrored perfectly.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
Bob (and others), I have a sincere question. Why does that dagger represent the pinnacle of the craft? I am not knowledgeable at all about them, so I am wondering why it is so highly regarded.

That question comes from wanting to know why it is, but not doubting at all that it is, in fact, remarkable among remarkable knives. Can you point out some of the things that would escape most folks (like me)?
re in the op
Thank you.

I think Justin and Grogimus captured the answer to your question perfectly. It is in the symmetrical perfection of execution, pure and simple. I have never had a more perfectly symmetrical dagger as this. It,s not what price was paid. The original purchase price Justin mentioned is, in the opinion of more than one expert, much lower than many expert collectors would gladly pay. I've had numerous five figure daggers, still do, none of which are of a perfect symmetry to this extent, particularly when completely integral. Nathan's dagger is pure, others have tons of embellishment, often to hide imperfections in fit and finish, though no one will say that.

This is not to say the high end pieces are not worth the money for a collector, but only that perfection is more a thing of fit, finish and symmetry - not embellishment. Pricing is always subjective.
 
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4J56H9L.jpg
 
Is the new chef knife for the fiancé, MoS?

that's what I told her ;). Joking of course. It's for her to have something nice but also something I've been wanting so it's a gift for both of us basically. If she hurts it'll she will be demoted to using just the Food Network santoku I have.
 
Bob (and others), I have a sincere question. Why does that dagger represent the pinnacle of the craft? I am not knowledgeable at all about them, so I am wondering why it is so highly regarded.

That question comes from wanting to know why it is, but not doubting at all that it is, in fact, remarkable among remarkable knives. Can you point out some of the things that would escape most folks (like me)?

Thank you.

to me, the dagger stands apart from other genres of knife
it could conceivably be the most commonly used shape of the blades created during the dawn of human tool making


I tend toward the existentialist school of philosophy, and my understanding of it fairly heavily implicates history and culture, and therefore, religion. Dagger's use in religious ceremony across a broad spectrum of cultures is as a sacred object. Although secular in every way, I find the concept and practice of religion to be fascinating. We're unconsciously steeping in a scope of history that has until recently been beyond our ability to understand, and this new understanding is creating a paradigm shift in consciousness that we're a part of

daggers seem to me to be a tether, or maybe magnet is a better word, to this intrinsic part of our psyche that comes from over 2 million years developing these things we use

here's a dagger of Salish construction, post contact of course, on display at Royal BC Museum

 
Bob (and others), I have a sincere question. Why does that dagger represent the pinnacle of the craft? I am not knowledgeable at all about them, so I am wondering why it is so highly regarded.

That question comes from wanting to know why it is, but not doubting at all that it is, in fact, remarkable among remarkable knives. Can you point out some of the things that would escape most folks (like me)?

Thank you.


You're an engineer right? I have an answer tailored to you.

That is a real dagger built as a real and proper weapon. It is also built without regard to manufacturability, meaning it was a difficult piece with a lot of hours in it.

Without sitting down with someone in person it is difficult to explain some of these concepts. The grind is twisted in a shallow helix. In order to picture this, think of it as the grind angle being steep at the plunge, going flatter along the length of the dagger then going steep again as it approaches the tip. What this does is control the distal taper along the length of the blade rather then just letting it be dictated by the intersection of a constant angle grind as it runs along the length of the blade. Otherwise the tip would be the result of the intersection of two deep hollow grinds and would be very thin and weak behind the point, and there would be a weak spot at the plunge.

It is American made Latrobe A2 steel with an optimized heat treat. You can't see those things, but they are there and are important.

It is perfectly balanced at the intersection of the guard and the ricasso which didn't just happen by itself on such a long stout light dagger, it took some real effort.

The meat behind the point and at the weighted pommel increase the moment of inertia which is what you want for a thrusting weapon and a main gauche intended to resist deflection.

The handle feels odd when held in a normal knife "hammer" grip; it wasn't intended to be held that way. It is designed to be held across the palm at an angle (pommel at the wrist) with both the index finger and thumb behind the guard and used as a stab and thrust weapon extending out the length of the arm to project reach. It has been carefully designed so that when held this way the blade extends naturally along the length of the arm rather than jut off at a weird angle. It is also intended to be held turned 90 degrees in the hand with the thumb on the ricasso. These are strange hand grips for most folks, but this is a real dagger and is designed to be used as such.

The crossed full tangs is very unusual, but is much stiffer and stronger than a single full tang, which allows less material to do more work. The twisted deep hollow grind allows the removal of unneeded material behind the edge in the middle of the blade which reduces unnecessary blade weight and adds a cut section on an otherwise thrust blade. These considerations to geometry end with a surprising light weapon for such a large and stout dagger.

None of the geometry is easy to make. It is not something most folks could sit at a grinder, forge or mill and make at this level. In my humble opinion it represents near the limit of the state of the art of what can be done in a bladed weapon of its sort. The cost, to me, was many many hours of design, programming, ergonomic prototypes, spindle hours and (because none of it can be directly milled, only surface milled) hours and hours of hand stoning. There are details such as the aforementioned X tang, radii and extra meat in stressed locations, and a total of 32 hidden blind threaded holes in the scales to allow assembly with acraglas and threaded hidden pins that make it not just well engineered and well designed but also well built and made to withstand real hard use as a real dagger. So, what makes this one of my best efforts, to me, isn't that it is symmetric and has good fit and finish, but that it is a no-compromise piece of work that represents the best that I am capable of. And, I think what makes this piece special isn't that it is an art knife, but specifically because it isn't an art knife, it is a real knife, and well crafted examples of a real modern dagger that has been carefully and thoroughly designed and executed are actually pretty uncommon.

These are crazy time consuming to make, so there are very few of them.

21061705442_507e31b8f8_b.jpg


Carothers_dagger.jpg


4.jpg~original


5.jpg~original


edit to add:
10" blade, 15.3" total length, 2.5" wide across the guard
12.7 oz
Latrobe A2, HRC 59-60
Westinghouse Micarta
 
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I'm pretty much rendered speechless when ever I see these photos. Reading about the detailed creation process behind these daggers just makes them all the more incredibly perfect on a supernatural scale. Mike
 
Also about that dagger....it started life as a 12# block of Latrobe A2 steel. [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I appreciate the responses, and appreciate the knives and the talent it takes to build one all the more! Thank you.
 
You're an engineer right? I have an answer tailored to you.

That is a real dagger built as a real and proper weapon. It is also built without regard to manufacturability, meaning it was a difficult piece with a lot of hours in it.

Without sitting down with someone in person it is difficult to explain some of these concepts. The grind is twisted in a shallow helix. In order to picture this, think of it as the grind angle being steep at the plunge, going flatter along the length of the dagger then going steep again as it approaches the tip. What this does is control the distal taper along the length of the blade rather then just letting it be dictated by the intersection of a constant angle grind as it runs along the length of the blade. Otherwise the tip would be the result of the intersection of two deep hollow grinds and would be very thin and weak behind the point, and there would be a weak spot at the plunge.

It is American made Latrobe A2 steel with an optimized heat treat. You can't see those things, but they are there and are important.

It is perfectly balanced at the intersection of the guard and the ricasso which didn't just happen by itself on such a long stout light dagger, it took some real effort.

The meat behind the point and at the weighted pommel increase the moment of inertia which is what you want for a thrusting weapon and a main gauche intended to resist deflection.

The handle feels odd when held in a normal knife "hammer" grip; it wasn't intended to be held that way. It is designed to be held across the palm at an angle (pommel at the wrist) with both the index finger and thumb behind the guard and used as a stab and thrust weapon extending out the length of the arm to project reach. It has been carefully designed so that when held this way the blade extends naturally along the length of the arm rather than jut off at a weird angle. It is also intended to be held turned 90 degrees in the hand with the thumb on the ricasso. These are strange hand grips for most folks, but this is a real dagger and is designed to be used as such.

The crossed full tangs is very unusual, but is much stiffer and stronger than a single full tang, which allows less material to do more work. The twisted deep hollow grind allows the removal of unneeded material behind the edge in the middle of the blade which reduces unnecessary blade weight and adds a cut section on an otherwise thrust blade. These considerations to geometry end with a surprising light weapon for such a large and stout dagger.

None of the geometry is easy to make. It is not something most folks could sit at a grinder, forge or mill and make at this level. In my humble opinion it represents near the limit of the state of the art of what can be done in a bladed weapon of its sort. The cost, to me, was many many hours of design, programming, ergonomic prototypes, spindle hours and (because none of it can be directly milled, only surface milled) hours and hours of hand stoning. There are details such as the aforementioned X tang, radii and extra meat in stressed locations, and a total of 32 hidden blind threaded holes in the scales to allow assembly with acraglas and threaded hidden pins that make it not just well engineered and well designed but also well built and made to withstand real hard use as a real dagger. So, what makes this one of my best efforts, to me, isn't that it is symmetric and has good fit and finish, but that it is a no-compromise piece of work that represents the best that I am capable of. And, I think what makes this piece special isn't that it is an art knife, but specifically because it isn't an art knife, it is a real knife, and well crafted examples of a real modern dagger that has been carefully and thoroughly designed and executed are actually pretty uncommon.

These are crazy time consuming to make, so there are very few of them
edit to add:
10" blade, 15.3" total length, 2.5" wide across the guard
12.7 oz
Latrobe A2, HRC 59-60
Westinghouse Micarta

That was one of the best posts I've read in a long time.
I had no clue what went into that either, now I'm sitting here staring at the pics like it's hanging in the Louvre.
Makes me wonder how many knives in pictures here on BF or at Bladeshow I've walked by because I thought it was an "art knife", not knowing how much thought and work went into its functionality
Edit: This dagger definitely did not fall into the art knife category, I just had no idea about all of the work and thought that went into it.
That is just killer Nathan, thanks for sharing!
 
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I appreciated Nathan speaking to the complex machining aspects as well. Yes, I'm an engineer and easily geek out on stuff like this!
 
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