Pics or Knockoffs ???

[bld522]

There are a number of knife designs on the market right now that are completely out of my price range . . . designs I would love to own but will never be able to afford. Integral knives like the CRK integrals are among them. More and more, however, offshore companies are manufacturing knives that are VERY close if not virtually identical to the originals for a fraction of their price. Admittedly, most of these offshore knives are garbage. Some, however, are very well made.

At a certain point in time, I had to make a decision. Would I be satisfied for the rest of my life looking at images of knives I wanted to own but could never afford or would I be willing to purchase knockoffs and actually have something I could hold in my hand that emulated the originals? And if I were willing to purchase knockoffs, what if any conditions or limitations would I set on purchasing them?

At first, I was OK just looking at the images. But after awhile, that just wasn't good enough. I listened to the arguments of those who said that buying knockoffs unfairly took money out of the hands of the original knife designers. But that argument didn't sway me. The original knife designers weren't EVER going to get my money. I simply couldn't afford to buy their products at the prices they charged for them. At the same time, I knew I would never be satisfied with junk and I wasn't willing to purchase knockoffs that had the original designers' logos on them no matter how well made they might be. So I began purchasing what appeared to be decently-made knockoffs from name-brand companies. And so far, I've been satisfied with the results.

So here's what I want to know. Am I the only one who is willing to purchase knockoffs of products I couldn't otherwise afford? Or could I be a member of a quiet but expanding community of knife buyers? And if it happens that you also purchase knockoffs and you're willing to admit to that, what requirements (if any) have you set on buying them?

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[gundude73]

well you get what you pay for, "knockoff" refers to something that is trying to fool you, ie something that looks just like a sebenza marketed as one but is a cheap copy, you can get legit knives that are close to a sebenza in materials in fit and finish, spyderco sage 2 comes to mind, but in my opinion if you are trying to get something that looks like a sebenza and is copying one the only way to satisfy yourself would be to get one

i have been wanting a sebenza for awhile, so i looked and looked and bought a used small regular sebenza here on bladeforums, there are deals to be had if you dont wish to pay full retail and still want a sebenza. good luck

 

[Bob W]

I bought one knock-off simply out of curiosity, how did it compare to the original?

Here's a genuine Schrade-USA Old Timer model 34OT side-by-side with a Rigid Executive Series:

The Rigid doesn't completely suck, and it's undoubtedly worth the few dollars it cost, but it wasn't up to par with the original.

 

[bld522]

well you get what you pay for, "knockoff" refers to something that is trying to fool you, ie something that looks just like a sebenza marketed as one but is a cheap copy, you can get legit knives that are close to a sebenza in materials in fit and finish, spyderco sage 2 comes to mind, but in my opinion if you are trying to get something that looks like a sebenza and is copying one the only way to satisfy yourself would be to get one

i have been wanting a sebenza for awhile, so i looked and looked and bought a used small regular sebenza here on bladeforums, there are deals to be had if you dont wish to pay full retail and still want a sebenza. good luck

Yes. I believe that some knives really can't be duplicated. The Sebbie falls into that class of knife for me although it might not for others. That's exactly the kind of info I'm looking for in terms of what people might or might not be willing to purchase in the way of knockoffs.

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[gundude73]

Yes. I believe that some knives really can't be duplicated. The Sebbie falls into that class of knife for me although it might not for others. That's part of what I'm looking for in terms of what people might or might not be willing to purchase in the way of knockoffs.

well in that case i would NOT be willing to, first the fact that it is a knock off would always irk me, and it hurts the original designer and the company who is getting ripped off.

 

[bld522]

Let me provide a couple of examples of knockoffs that I've either purchased with good results or plan to purchase. The first is the Schrade SCHF2:

The knife has proven itself to be quite durable.

The second is the upcoming Kressler Subhilt Fighter from Boker:

The Kressler Fighter is clearly a Big Bear knockoff. But who can afford a real Big Bear?

Should I deprive myself of the pleasure of owning a Big Bear knockoff just because I couldn't possibly ever afford to purchase a real Big Bear? And am I the only person who's asking himself that question?

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[Thalestin]

I think buying knock offs are a lot like masturbation. It might get the job done, but it aint as good as the real thing. YMMV

 

[bld522]

I expected passions to run high over my questions. That's why I think a lot of people around here are afraid to step up and say that they buy knockoffs. But clearly a lot of knockoffs are being bought, often with good results. Otherwise, companies like SOG and Schrade and Boker wouldn't be producing them.

My question is, are those who passionately disapprove of knockoffs merely members of a vocal minority? Or do they still represent the majority of educated knife purchasers?

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[tnt-user]

I expected passions to run high over my questions. That's why I think a lot of people around here are afraid to step up and say that they buy knockoffs. But clearly a lot of knockoffs are being bought, often with good results. Otherwise, companies like SOG and Schrade and Boker wouldn't be producing them.

My question is, are those who passionately disapprove of knockoffs merely members of a vocal minority? Or do they still represent the majority of educated knife purchasers?

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IT has little to do with money or education. Most knockoff buyers buy them because they think their getting a great knife at 1/4 the price.

 

[bld522]

The crazy thing is, sometimes they are! But I agree that most purchasers of knockoffs won't take the time to perform the due diligence we do. And as a result, they end up buying junk. On the other hand, the original knife designers STILL don't have anything to lose. People who buy knockoffs won't pony up to buy their originals any more than I will. And once again, I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that.

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[EdgeKit]

By knock offs do you mean an exact duplicate of the Sebenza, with the R logo, for 5 bucks at a flea market? Or something close to the Sebenza in design sold as a different product by a legit company, such as the Sage 2 or Bradley Alias or Russell Acies? The ethical issues of buying one is very different than the other, though some would argue against buying either group.

Ethics aside, it comes down to why you want the original. If you admire the quality of it, the knock off is going to disappoint. If you admire the design, then the knock off may work for you. If you want the brand name, then the knock off may work for you. Lots of people wear fake Rolexes, $100 Armani suits, and carry flea market Gucci bags. Not sure if they are fooling anyone but themselves...

 

[vonhizzle]

I don't buy knockoffs. I also don't lust after super expensive knives. I am more a good materials, good fit and finish, good price, good deal kind of guy. Well I guess I have lusted after some Busse's... but that is different

Basically I am saying that if a knockoff has the best materials and fit and finish for my dollar I will buy it, but that is not usually the case.

 

[Dorito Monk]

I was totally willing to buy one of the Cold-Steel knockoff SOG bowies (can't remember what they're called...UWK? OSS?) because they used to cost something like a quarter of the cost of a SOG 2.0 bowie. I wasn't overly interested in really using either knife, I just admired the looks of them and wanted to get ahold of one.

Didn't end up getting one because they were discontinued right around the time I put in the order, but yeah, there was definitely a time when I was A-okay with buying cheap knockoffs. Come to think of it, I think that knife had better steel the original...Carbon-V versus Aus-8? Yes please!

Hell, even now, my Les Paul is an Agile 3100 instead of a Gibson Custom - I don't care one bit that it's not the genuine article, it's still all the guitar I could want. I can still sleep at night not having shelled out over 5 grand for a Les Paul Custom

I prefer to get the genuine article when I can, but as far as knockoffs go in general, if a knife/guitar/whatever performs and looks the way a person wants it to, I don't see how someone could morally object to it. That said, I might scoff at companies that produce cheap knockoff of inexpensive knives (ex: Why would you buy a cheap knockoff Endura? Why the hell not just get an Endura???), but I can't really fault someone for using such a knockoff if they're happy with it.

 

[bld522]

By knock offs do you mean an exact duplicate of the Sebenza, with the R logo, for 5 bucks at a flea market? Or something close to the Sebenza in design sold as a different product by a legit company, such as the Sage 2 or Bradley Alias or Russell Acies? The ethical issues of buying one is very different than the other, though some would argue against buying either group.

Ethics aside, it comes down to why you want the original. If you admire the quality of it, the knock off is going to disappoint. If you admire the design, then the knock off may work for you. If you want the brand name, then the knock off may work for you. Lots of people wear fake Rolexes, $100 Armani suits, and carry flea market Gucci bags. Not sure if they are fooling anyone but themselves...

I, for one, admire the design. Quality counts, of course. That's why, for example, I'd never purchase an exact duplicate of the Sebenza with the R logo for 5 bucks at a flea market. But quality at what price? The point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't matter how well the knife is made. If I can't afford it, I can't afford it. Now if I can locate a knockoff that's REASONABLY well made for a fraction of the price, should I pass it up or should I continue to envy the original for the rest of my life?

Back to the title of my thread . . . pics or knockoffs? Those are my choices. So now you tell me.

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[bld522]

Basically I am saying that if a knockoff has the best materials and fit and finish for my dollar I will buy it, but that is not usually the case.

Substitute the words "reasonably good" for "the best" and you'll see where I'm coming from. If I could afford "the best", that's what I'd buy!

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[missin_hobo]

Knock-offs are called knock-offs because their makers want you to think they can compare to the original. Usually they cannot, because if they could, those makers would be making their own knives and not someone else's.

My experience is that if you want a certain high-end knife, a knock-off might tide you over for awhile but sooner or later, you'll end up getting the real deal. It's really a matter of your own satisfaction.
My advice is not to bother with imitators and just do what your heart keeps telling you.

 

[vonhizzle]

Knock-offs are called knock-offs because their makers want you to think they can compare to the original. Usually they cannot, because if they could, those makers would be making their own knives and not someone else's.

My experience is that if you want a certain high-end knife, a knock-off might tide you over for awhile but sooner or later, you'll end up getting the real deal. It's really a matter of your own satisfaction.
My advice is not to bother with imitators and just do what your heart keeps telling you.

I agree. It is like a gimmick. If the knife was that good then they wouldn't need a gimmick to sell it. Just my opinion.

 

[EdgeKit]

I, for one, admire the design. Quality counts, of course. That's why, for example, I'd never purchase an exact duplicate of the Sebenza with the R logo for 5 bucks at a flea market. But quality at what price? The point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't matter how well the knife is made. If I can't afford it, I can't afford it. Now if I can locate a knockoff that's REASONABLY well made for a fraction of the price, should I pass it up or should I continue to envy the original for the rest of my life?

Back to the title of my thread . . . pics or knockoffs? Those are my choices. So now you tell me.

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Only you can answer that question for yourself. If you want my vote, why throw in the towel now? I wouldn't assume you can never have the real deal.

 

[knarfeng]

My question is, are those who passionately disapprove of knockoffs merely members of a vocal minority? Or do they still represent the majority of educated knife purchasers?

It has been my experience here that the more educated the knife user, the less likely he is to buy a knockoff.

I won't knowingly buy a pure copy.

 

[bld522]

Knock-offs are called knock-offs because their makers want you to think they can compare to the original. Usually they cannot, because if they could, those makers would be making their own knives and not someone else's.

My experience is that if you want a certain high-end knife, a knock-off might tide you over for awhile but sooner or later, you'll end up getting the real deal. It's really a matter of your own satisfaction.
My advice is not to bother with imitators and just do what your heart keeps telling you.

I hear you, missin hobo. And you're absolutely right when you say that most knockoffs can't compare to the originals. But if you're willing to bide your time and keep your eyes open, they can come up. I'll give you just one example.

I've lusted after a CRK integral for a long time. IMO, there's really nothing very practical about the integral design and it's way over my budget. So when it came time for me to start seriously investing in knives, I bought knives that made more sense to me. As much as I liked the integral design, I figured I'd never own one and that was that.

Then the Schrade SCHF2 came along. I wasn't even aware of it until someone whose opinion I respect did a review of it and gave it a thumbs-up. That's all I needed to hear. I bought the knife at once and, of course, he was right. The SCHF2 is well made and extremely tough.

Do I regret not having purchased a CRK integral. Not at all. Will I ever regret not having purchased a CRK integral? I don't think so.

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