Pics or Knockoffs ???

[bld522]

Only you can answer that question for yourself. If you want my vote, why throw in the towel now? I wouldn't assume you can never have the real deal.

Yep. There's always the lotto!

 

[bld522]

It has been my experience here that the more educated the knife user, the less likely he is to buy a knockoff.

I won't knowingly buy a pure copy.

I would and have. But only after doing a LOT of research. (I am not a novice knife buyer nor am I suggesting that you're inferring that.)

Interestingly, only one person sort of said they'd be willing to buy a knockoff. But I'm sure that there are many others lurking in the shadows. Over the course of time, I expect to see knockoffs increase rather than decrease. Whether their quality follows suit is questionable, but not impossible. And every now and again, a gem like the Schrade SCHF2 or the Boker Kressler Subhilt will come up. If I spot them when they do, I'll be there.

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[kamagong]

Let me provide a couple of examples of knockoffs that I've either purchased with good results or plan to purchase...the upcoming Kressler Subhilt Fighter from Boker:

The Kressler Fighter is clearly a Big Bear knockoff. But who can afford a real Big Bear?

Should I deprive myself of the pleasure of owning a Big Bear knockoff just because I couldn't possibly ever afford to purchase a real Big Bear? And am I the only person who's asking himself that question?

Don't worry about that one, the Kressler knife is not a knockoff of the Cold Steel Big Bear. The BB is nothing more than Cold Steel's version of a Bob Loveless sub-hilt fighter. One could argue that Cold Steel's knife is itself a knockoff. In this particular case, you can say that both knives are Loveless inspired designs.

 

[pppiggg]

I think buying knock offs are a lot like masturbation. It might get the job done, but it aint as good as the real thing. YMMV

You made me laugh hard... LOL

 

[deepfry]

I have bought knock-offs before and probably will again. Like you said, it comes down to whether I can or want to spend the money on the original and the quality of the knock-off in question. In some cases, if there are no reviews to be found on a particular one, the only way to find out if it's a decent product is just to go ahead and buy it and find out for yourself assuming it's inexpensive enough.
I also bought a SCHF1 after reading some good reviews of it but also picked up a SCHF3 without much info on it simply because I had drooled over a CRK Pacific before and for ~$30 it was worth it to me to see for myself if it would be a suitable substitute.
I was very impressed with the quality of both knives for the price but ultimately realized that I would never have a use for either of them and have since sold them.

 

[bld522]

Don't worry about that one, the Kressler knife is not a knockoff of the Cold Steel Big Bear. The BB is nothing more than Cold Steel's version of a Bob Loveless sub-hilt fighter. One could argue that Cold Steel's knife is itself a knockoff. In this particular case, you can say that both knives are Loveless inspired designs.

True that. And Kressler Big Bears run upwards of $5,000. So I could no more afford a Kressler Big Bear than I could an original Loveless Big Bear (assuming I could even find one).

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the Boker/Kressler collaboration. It should be available in May. :thumbup:

.

 

[bld522]

I have bought knock-offs before and probably will again. Like you said, it comes down to whether I can or want to spend the money on the original and the quality of the knock-off in question. In some cases, if there are no reviews to be found on a particular one, the only way to find out if it's a decent product is just to go ahead and buy it and find out for yourself assuming it's inexpensive enough.
I also bought a SCHF1 after reading some good reviews of it but also picked up a SCHF3 without much info on it simply because I had drooled over a CRK Pacific before and for ~$30 it was worth it to me to see for myself if it would be a suitable substitute.
I was very impressed with the quality of both knives for the price but ultimately realized that I would never have a use for either of them and have since sold them.

I'm glad to hear that the SCHF3 is a decent knife. I tend to stay away from the stainless Schrade CRK knockoffs. But the SCHF1 and SCHF2 are constructed of 1070 and not surprisingly, they've proven themselves to be pretty darn tough knives.

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[the kid]

I don't have a problem with buying knives that look like other more expensive knives. I just ordered two Sanrenmu's that look like Sebenza's.
I don't buy real knock-offs that have a fake logo or other brand names on them.

 

[missin_hobo]

I hear you, missin hobo. And you're absolutely right when you say that most knockoffs can't compare to the originals. But if you're willing to bide your time and keep your eyes open, they can come up. I'll give you just one example.

I've lusted after a CRK integral for a long time. IMO, there's really nothing very practical about the integral design and it's way over my budget. So when it came time for me to start seriously investing in knives, I bought knives that made more sense to me. As much as I liked the integral design, I figured I'd never own one and that was that.

Then the Schrade SCHF2 came along. I wasn't even aware of it until someone whose opinion I respect did a review of it and gave it a thumbs-up. That's all I needed to hear. I bought the knife at once and, of course, he was right. The SCHF2 is well made and extremely tough.

Do I regret not having purchased a CRK integral. Not at all. Will I ever regret not having purchased a CRK integral? I don't think so.

This is true, bld522.
There are instances where a knockoff will stand up to the original, especially if the original is of sound design. How many fake Buck 110s do you think are out there that can hold their own against the original?
Having said that, sometimes it's not just about owning a sturdy knife, but about the spiritual, ethical and historical connotations of owning the sturdy knife. My CRK Integral is a milestone in cutlery history, among other things. The Schrade, not so much, though I admit it is a formidable tool.

I say this every time someone compares the Sebenza to the Alias: the sebenza won't always better - that's a matter of user conjecture - but the Alias will always have come second. Sometimes there's just something about an original.

As for affording it, I've never made above minimum wage, apart from odd jobs in the film business, and I own three Reeves. It took awhile, required dilligent saving and meticulous budgeting, but I managed it. I think you can too

 

[Tostig]

Why not a trade off ?

I'm not the only one that gets 'knife lust' , sometimes it is ignorable like when bills are piling up and common sense kicks in that I cannot afford a luxury like another knife , sometimes it is eating at me in the back of my mind.

For instance I got huge knife lust over the XM-18 back in November, not only can I not afford one but finding one at a reasonable price is not readily easy either , so I found out that Gerber makes a knife quite similiar to the XM-18 ( Rick designed it BTW ) the Gerber Firestorm , I was going to drop the cash and get one to satisfy myself but wound up buying a Kershaw Zing instead , the Zing reminds me a little of the Firestorm which reminds me of the XM-18 and thus my lust was gone.

Not that i'm still slightly pining for a XM-18 but the want is just not there like it was.

I bought a Fenix light a couple years back , with my order I also got a free knife - it was the spitting image of one of the Buck Strider models only this was a linerlock , you know what , it was one hell of a nice little knife , very solid , took a wonderful edge too but I was embarrassed by the fact that it was such a ripoff of the Buck Strinder model.


my 2 cents - Tostig

 

[MORIMOTOM]

I would and have. But only after doing a LOT of research. (I am not a novice knife buyer nor am I suggesting that you're inferring that.)

Interestingly, only one person sort of said they'd be willing to buy a knockoff. But I'm sure that there are many others lurking in the shadows. Over the course of time, I expect to see knockoffs increase rather than decrease. Whether their quality follows suit is questionable, but not impossible. And every now and again, a gem like the Schrade SCHF2 or the Boker Kressler Subhilt will come up. If I spot them when they do, I'll be there.

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in the last 10 years or so, we have all watched knife collecting become more and more mainstream. the internet makes otherwise unknown makers' products easily accessible. more and more people are trying to enter the market, some very successfully.

along with that, comes the mass produced "copies" attempting to get a portion of the ever growing market. they see what is popular, and mimick the design.

im not sure whether these knockoffs actually take money out of the pockets of the original designers. someone who purchases that schrade one piece at $40 is likely not be in the same demographic as one who purchases the crk.

personally, i wont buy the knockoffs, and i am dissappointed when i see people knowingly support copycats. does it speak to one's character? maybe, maybe not. i submit it does, however it may be.

they are not "just" knives. or cars, or guns, or whatever. we place intrinsic value in the design and exection of any item, and we are willing to spend what the market demands.

i get that not everyone can spend $200 and upward on a knife. in fact, i love it when someone starts a thread with pictures of their brand new spyderco tenacious, a $30 knife. the pride that exudes always brings a smile to my face.

the schrade is not an homage, rethinking, new vision, or anything but a duplicate. someone saw the crk line, knew they could make if for far less, and knowingly produced and marketed a blatant copy.


its your money, spend it as you please. but i see this thread as an attempt to justify your purchase by trying to locate others who will agree with your decision.

 

[oxbld]

These are some that I have that are dangerously close to being knockoffs. Or, maybe they are... Either way, I enjoy them. I would love to buy a CRK or a Benchmade, but my budget does not allow it. Yet.

 

[bld522]

. . . i see this thread as an attempt to justify your purchase by trying to locate others who will agree with your decision.

I respect your position, MORIMOTOM. But there's one point I have to disagree with. I'm really not looking for others who will support my decision. I'm perfectly capable of making up my own mind.

 

[Dorito Monk]

personally, i wont buy the knockoffs, and i am dissappointed when i see people knowingly support copycats. does it speak to one's character? maybe, maybe not. i submit it does, however it may be.

they are not "just" knives. or cars, or guns, or whatever. we place intrinsic value in the design and exection of any item, and we are willing to spend what the market demands.

the schrade is not an homage, rethinking, new vision, or anything but a duplicate. someone saw the crk line, knew they could make if for far less, and knowingly produced and marketed a blatant copy.

its your money, spend it as you please. but i see this thread as an attempt to justify your purchase by trying to locate others who will agree with your decision.

The knives or guns or guitars I buy speak to my character? Would it therefore make me a better human being and a man to buy the genuine, original article?

Forgive me if I seem in poor taste, but your post appears to be little more than someone waving the banner of elitist hooplah.

I don't think anyone needs to justify their purchases or their spending priorities, least of all to you, sir.

This post is not meant to be inflammatory, although I'm not sure the same could be said of yours.

 

[J.Mattson]

I respect your position, MORIMOTOM. But there's one point I have to disagree with. I'm really not looking for others who will support my decision. I'm perfectly capable of making up my own mind.

Um…seriously?

Do you really expect me to believe that when time and time again in this thread you’ve asked for others who share your views to chime in?

So here's what I want to know. Am I the only one who….

And am I the only person who's asking himself that question?

.

My question is, are those who passionately disapprove of knockoffs merely members of a vocal minority? Or do they still represent the majority of educated knife purchasers?

.

And once again, I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that.

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[MORIMOTOM]

The knives or guns or guitars I buy speak to my character? Would it therefore make me a better human being and a man to buy the genuine, original article?

Forgive me if I seem in poor taste, but your post appears to be little more than someone waving the banner of elitist hooplah.

I don't think anyone needs to justify their purchases or their spending priorities, least of all to you, sir.

This post is not meant to be inflammatory, although I'm not sure the same could be said of yours.

i dont justify my purchases, i didn't start this thread.

how much you spend is not an indicator of your character, or anyone's. i suggest that knowingly supporting a company that rips off others ideas, on the other hand, does.

maybe you need to reread my post. you've entirely missed the content.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

I respect your position, MORIMOTOM. But there's one point I have to disagree with. I'm really not looking for others who will support my decision. I'm perfectly capable of making up my own mind.

you've already made up your mind, you have already purchased the knife. correct?

but you obviously want other people here to tell you its ok, evidenced by the quotes in mattson's post.

 

[Tripton]

Do I buy junk because it looks cool?


Um, no.

All above ethical issues also apply.

 

[batosai117]

I've come to learn that you should buy what makes you happy. Now I wouldn't support an exact copy trying to sell for the same price as the original, that to me is a knockoff. Otherwise it's just similar designs and there's only so many ways to design a knife - blade shape/length, handle materials, and a sheath if it's fixed or tip up / tip down for a folder. I honestly like the SCHF2, before a fellow forumite did a review on it, I had no idea it existed. After he got flamed for it being too much like the CRK version (which I was unaware of at the time) there was a bit of dog piling and unfortunately I tagged along. After seeing the end result and making amends through PM, I'm look forward to his new reviews and reasonably priced knives.

That is one knife that I feel if I ever did buy it, I wouldn't be able to show it off here or include it in pics because it looks too much like the original. In that review, it takes a beating and holds it's own with a nice carbon steel blade to boot (1070 I believe). Now I know I would feel funny being aware that it "looks" like the original, but it did perform very well for a ~$40 knife.

Just saying, J.

 

[Dorito Monk]

i dont justify my purchases, i didn't start this thread.

Cool story, bro. :thumbup:

how much you spend is not an indicator of your character, or anyone's. i suggest that knowingly supporting a company that rips off others ideas, on the other hand, does.

Okay, I see where you're coming from. I wonder, though, to what extent this applies for you: A knife company mimicking another's designs or innovations is a no-go for you, but what about guns? How many companies make an Armalite or Kalashnikov rifle? Are people of inferior character because they don't buy from the right company? How about cars? Musical instruments? If a guitar uses a humbucking pickup and isn't a Gibson, is its owner morally inferior? Unoriginal ideas and products are produced and sold everywhere you look; where do you draw the line between the acceptable and unacceptable use of someone else's ideas or hard work?

maybe you need to reread my post. you've entirely missed the content.

Cute, but no thank you; I read the trite elitist BS the first time. It didn't merit another helping.