Placeholding "Custom" Question

Chuck Bybee said:
Why do you consider a Lochsa to be production?:confused:

My Lochsa is a custom knife.
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Isn't it production? You can order a Sebenza with a variety of blade steels, lug options, handle embellishments, etc. What makes it custom? :confused:
 
Chuck Bybee said:
How do you define a Production Knife?
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A knife that is made repeatably for various people. It can be tweaked or tuned to suit individuals, but just because one XM-18 has a CF scale and another has a different grind doesn't make either of them custom knives.
 
Josh K said:
A knife that is made repeatably for various people. It can be tweaked or tuned to suit individuals, but just because one XM-18 has a CF scale and another has a different grind doesn't make either of them custom knives.
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I would say you have an interesting definition of "Production Knives" that the majority of custom knife collectors and knifemakers do not agree with.
 
Try to define "custom knives" almost killed the Knifemakers Guild.

There are lots of thread discussing production vs custom. The subject has been beaten to death and is still unresolved in some people mind.

In my opinion, the knives made by the following companies are production:
Al Mar, Benchmade, Buck, Case, Chris Reeve, CRKT, Gerber, Kershaw, Spyderco, etc, (I'm sure I'm forgetting some companies).
 
Going to ask to move the posts from the other gentleman's thread over here, I was out of line to start that drift.

Basically the question is "How do you define custom or production?"

I would define custom as knives made once and not repeated using a pattern, however it feels like that's not the standard line of thought, can I hear yours briefly?
 
Hi Josh,

I would define custom as knives made once and not repeated using a pattern, however it feels like that's not the standard line of thought, can I hear yours briefly?
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That is one definition.

But not the one generally accepted. One flaw with that is...over the years (centuries) most knife patterns have been made. Consequently, even if the maker only made one and never made it again...it would be a customized version of someone else's design.

The term "custom" is more a marketing term that encompasses several different methods of making knives. To include making the same model twice.

Generally the knives are made by one person in their shop. and will have the makers name or logo on the blade.

Production knives are made by either an assortment of people or automated machines. You will find the "Brand" name or logo on the blade.

Example:

Scott Cook Lochsa...made by Scott in his shop with his name on the blade.
Less than 100 made each year.

Reeve Sebenza...made by, Jim, Bob, Pete, Billy, etc. the Brand name CR logo on the blade. Thousands of these are made each year.
 
If most part of the knife is made by hand, it's custom to me. Scott Cook's Lochsa, handle made by him, blade made by him=custom. Chris Reeve's Sebenza, handle made by machine, blade made by machine=production. That's my understanding though.
 
I think that few would sign up for so restrictive a definition, though as Les has pointed out, that is one way of looking at things.

Some claim that a knife is only a "true" custom if it is made to a customer's specific request / specification (as opposed to the maker's design) and never repeated again.

If those definitions were widely accepted, there would be precious few custom knives at a custom knife show, or on this custom knife subforum, for that matter. Jerry fisk has made a good many Senderos over the years - and they are all custom knives to my way of thinking.

For me, it comes down to a knife made by an individual - does the name on the knife identify the person who actually made it. Yes, you can have a collaborative effort on a custom knife - such as various charity benefit knives we have seen on the forums. In most of those cases the name of each maker involved is on the knife.

Roger
 
Roger, I got to agree with you and that's the way I see it too, could not have been said better.

RogerP said:
I think that few would sign up for so restrictive a definition, though as Les has pointed out, that is one way of looking at things.

Some claim that a knife is only a "true" custom if it is made to a customer's specific request / specification (as opposed to the maker's design) and never repeated again.

If those definitions were widely accepted, there would be precious few custom knives at a custom knife show, or on this custom knife subforum, for that matter. Jerry fisk has made a good many Senderos over the years - and they are all custom knives to my way of thinking.

For me, it comes down to a knife made by an individual - does the name on the knife identify the person who actually made it. Yes, you can have a collaborative effort on a custom knife - such as various charity benefit knives we have seen on the forums. In most of those cases the name of each maker involved is on the knife.

Roger
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^^^ A+++

I'll add that even the method of production can include helpers, and still not be a production knife. Most notable is that the knife is designed by the said maker, and produced at their smaller facility.

So much grey area, but it's the best we have.

Coop
 
SharpByCoop said:
^^^ A+++

I'll add that even the method of production can include helpers, and still not be a production knife. Most notable is that the knife is designed by the said maker, and produced at their smaller facility.

So much grey area, but it's the best we have.

Coop
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I'll accept grey area, but I had always though of the Lochsa as a production knife. Seems I was wrong, it's been known to happen.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in.
 
I always followed a variation of Roger's definition, but with a twist: that the parts of any model are not fully interchangeable between individual knives. After all, interchangeable parts is the very definition of "production" generally and historically.

As I recall, that was the generally accepted definition being bantered about during the 90's debate when Reeve, Eleshewitz et al. set off the tactical boom. Making all parts exactly to a certain specification, including blade blanks, doesn't make it a "custom" knife simply because the same person is grinding the blade out of the blank.

To me, if you can take the bolster, guard, scales, etc. off of one knife and fit it onto another example of that model, it has interchangeable parts and is therefore production. It may be "hand made" (insomuch as you count a single person operating all the machinery as "hand" work), but it's still production.
 
The distinction lies somewhere in with the distinction between 'Makers' and 'Manufacturers' on this forum. It is a sliding scale though. For instance, most people seem to consider XM's custom knives but I have heard that Rick gets his blades out to get ground and he is undoubtedly producing hundreds (thousands?) of the same knives. I have to imagine he has help in the shop as well. Then there are semi-production runs such as Tim Galyean's pro series of Junk Yard Dogs, Lahars, etc. They generally seem to not considered customs but there isn't much distinction between them and XM's.

Maybe the distinction should be dependent on if the maker is willing to make small changes to suit your tastes? Maybe it doesn't matter :cool:
 
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