Placeholding "Custom" Question

In my mind, IF the knife is made from using a pattern, template, it becomes a copy of something else already made. The connotation of the word "handmade" would suggest to me, non-laser cut or water jet methods, individually produced knife. Yet, there are "custom" production knives. The word "custom" can mean almost anything, including "customizing" something else, to individual preferences.
 
I present my "custom" '95 Honda Civic.

Work done includes custom distress treatment of various body panels, removal of emission controls, removal of clutch, adjustment of alignment to give it that worn in "pull 90* right" feeling.

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It is not a custom car. "Custom" does not mean altered stock.
 
I've been watching this debate in the knife world here in the US since the 70s like many of you. I think it was wrong from the start to refer to these knives as custom made. Unless there was a "customer" involved in the build as the reason that the knife was made in the first place. Even "handmade" is stretching it because we all know that factory knives are made by many hands rather than one or just a few. The British use the word "bespoke" for custom ordered goods. I wouldn't expect that word to gain much ground over here. A Bark River can be custom if you order one with a desert ironwood handle rather than taking just any one with micarta. I think that "shop built" or "craftsman" knives might have been a better way to go with the concept.
 
I think it was wrong from the start to refer to these knives as custom made. Unless there was a "customer" involved in the build as the reason that the knife was made in the first place. Even "handmade" is stretching it because we all know that factory knives are made by many hands rather than one or just a few. A Bark River can be custom if you order one with a desert ironwood handle rather than taking just any one with micarta. I think that "shop built" or "craftsman" knives might have been a better way to go with the concept.
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I agree with this completely and I might just start referring to my own as "shop built". I think we should all start doing this. The improper use of the word custom will never go away if we keep misusing it so the earlier we got started in the transition..the better, for both knifemakers and collectors/users.
 
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brownshoe said:
By the way Les, anytime you bring in someone's work and product into a discussion, you make it personal. You could have ignored the remark, but you see fit to challenge him and riducule his knives. Not very classy for someone who has a public career in this little world.
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I don't think Les ridiculed GT's knives since I have not read anything bad about it. (ex: ugly, defected, low quality, non ergo, etc) Also I don't think it is personal when Les used GT's work as an example since GT brought it in first. Other wise 56 Chevy will take it personal too...

Anyways, what would one call a Spyderco prototype knife? is it a custom? I mean there's only one in the world and probably designed by a knife maker, but uses all machined parts.
 
I don't really see the point of debating about a definition, mere semantics will not change the way each camp views custom knives. The fact is that most custom knives today are not made to the buyer's specs, if you don't like that fact just don't buy them and stop trying to mock those that appreciate those knives.
If you can't tell whether a knife is a custom by simply handling it then you should not be buying it.
 
LorenzoL said:
I don't really see the point of debating about a definition, mere semantics will not change the way each camp views custom knives. The fact is that most custom knives today are not made to the buyer's specs, if you don't like that fact just don't buy them and stop trying to mock those that appreciate those knives.
If you can't tell whether a knife is a custom by simply handling it then you should not be buying it.
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Debating is good, arguing is bad. It would be unfair to tell someone not to buy a knife if he can't distinguish between a custom or production since according to this thread obviously people are confused...or maybe they are not confused but have different definition.
 
Let me re-phrase it. I am saying that when buying a knife there are more important things to consider than whether it belongs to a category or another. I know great production knives that cost $400 and crappy customs that go for double that.
A truly outstanding custom will feel like it and the potential buyer will not even care about how many were made or what equipment the maker used to build it.
On the other hand, if you pick up a "custom" that does not compare favorably to a Sebenza, then you should probably pass.
 
LorenzoL said:
On the other hand, if you pick up a "custom" that does not compare favorably to a Sebenza, then you should probably pass.
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If you are talking fit & finish I could agree , but as far as ergos , I would not use the Seb as a benchmark , to me it ergonomically feels worse than most sub $50 knives..
 
According to some of the definitions I am seeing here, many/most of the knifes made by R.W. Loveless and William Moran are production knives becuase they could be ordered from a catalog and were made to a preexisting design or pattern.

I am not sure that comports with common usage of the term "production knife."
 
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