Placeholding "Custom" Question

You might ask "When does a '56 Chevy become a custom '56 Chevy?"

How many of the basic design components have to be changed before the custom designation is applied, a few, several, or all of them?

If All of the components must be changed then it has no connection to the original at all and the '56 Chevy would have to be rebuilt completely with Toyota parts to make it a custom '56 Chevy???? Is it still a Chevy???

Get off it! to make any knife a custom knife it must be made to CUSTOMER specifications and requirements either in handle material, blade grind or some other change.

George
 
George,

Get off it! to make any knife a custom knife it must be made to CUSTOMER specifications and requirements either in handle material, blade grind or some other change.
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So what do you call your knives that are not made to customer specs? As I know every knife you have ever made was not made to customer specs.

"When does a '56 Chevy become a custom '56 Chevy?"
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When does the custom Iron Mistress jut become a copy (your version in reverse). Take the Iron Mistress on your website. You borrowed the name, borrowed the design...guess claiming it is your "version" makes it ok? So this isn't a custom knife and you are not a custom knife maker.

What do you call this knife and what do you call your self? Knife and Knife Maker?
 
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george tichbourne said:
Get off it! to make any knife a custom knife it must be made to CUSTOMER specifications and requirements either in handle material, blade grind or some other change.

George
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Interesting , as your website says " custom knifemaker " yet on the available page of your site you have " This is an OPEN sale - we have blank blades on the shelf that just have to be handled & sheathed. Sale runs to
the end of September."


To be a custom knifemaker by your description, then , one would never have anything on the available now page , correct ? :D


Be careful when labeling , else contradictions occur.
 
Hi John,

Careful....if you are going to cloud the issue with facts...you will be asked to leave the conversation! :D

To be a custom knifemaker by your description, then , one would never have anything on the available now page , correct ?
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There it is!
 
You can order a Sebenza with a variety of blade steels, lug options, handle embellishments, etc. What makes it custom?
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That is what makes it custom. A custom knife is one made to order, with specific needs of the customer. Not all customs are handmade just as not all handmades are custom.(although non-ordered knives are custom to the maker since it is in their design, but it shouldn't be labeled as such when its sold)***

To be a custom knifemaker by your description, then , one would never have anything on the available now page , correct ?
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A custom knifemaker can make more then just customs, but they should only call themselves that if the majority of their business or sales is derived from orders.

*** Custom adj.
1. made to order
2.specializing in the making or selling of made-to-order goods

"The Free Dictionary" "Mirriam Webster" "Encyclopædia Britannica"
 
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george tichbourne said:
Les Robertson you have made this personal you owe me an apology.

GT
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Not to defend Les in any way, George, but I fail to see how he "made this personal"?

He is taking a postion, same as you are.

IMO, a maker could make a custom on "spec"...that is, the maker's view of a handmade knife that would hopefully appeal to a prospective buyer....but without the wait.

Would you say that is NOT a custom knife?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
George, just a casual observation with brotherly love in my heart and zero animosity toward anyone.

In post #21 you kind of stepped in crap (with your philosophy). Then in post #26 wiped the dirty shoe off on the clean shoe

This might be an ideal time to stop while you are just slightly behind, huh?

Paul
 
Hey GT,

First, that was not personal. Facts taken from your website.

Second, You do not get to proselytize:

Get off it! to make any knife a custom knife it must be made to CUSTOMER specifications and requirements either in handle material, blade grind or some other change.
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Then as John pointed out have knives for sale on your site.

Interesting , as your website says " custom knifemaker " yet on the available page of your site you have " This is an OPEN sale - we have blank blades on the shelf that just have to be handled & sheathed. Sale runs to
the end of September."
Click to expand...

According to GT...these (your knives) are not custom knives.

So what do you call these knives? What do you call your self?

When does the custom Iron Mistress jut become a copy (your version in reverse). Take the Iron Mistress on your website. You borrowed the name, borrowed the design...guess claiming it is your "version" makes it ok? So this isn't a custom knife and you are not a custom knife maker
Click to expand...

Was this the part you had issue with? Is what I wrote not factual?

Is this your design? No.

Is this your name for the knife? No.

Did you not borrow the design and name and then listed it as "your version"?

George you don't get it both ways. You put forth your myopic definition of what a custom knife is. Then offer "custom" knives that are not customer orders and in at least one case...not even your design. Then claim you are a custom knife maker.

George, that is not personal...that is just calling BS on your definition.
 
Discussing the definition of a custom knife or handmade knife is a worthless execise, but it gets done every year or so. The label on a knife does not change the knife nor how it was made. There is no "label" police outside of the Guild.

The last time we had this discussion, the consensus was that a maker should tell the truth about how a knife was made and use whatever label they are comfortable with. As far as the buyer goes, if they are too stupid to ask how a knife was made, they still get what they paid for label and all.

By the way Les, anytime you bring in someone's work and product into a discussion, you make it personal. You could have ignored the remark, but you see fit to challenge him and riducule his knives. Not very classy for someone who has a public career in this little world.
 
sleevefullofaces said:
I for one wouldn't mind another pic or two of this new S90v marvel!
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Lochsaopen4.jpg

And MY Locsha IS a custom.

A production knife IS easy found and purchased. You can't DO that with all custom knives. Try to easily find a Locsha.
 
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T.K.C. said:
Lochsaopen4.jpg

And MY Locsha IS a custom.

A production knife IS easy found and purchased. You can't DO that with all custom knives. Try to easily find a Locsha.
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What about say a non-blem Kershaw Volt? Or a Spyderco Gunting? These are production knives that are increasingly difficult to find.

Granted I have seen maybe one or two in recent years and no Locsha, but I also haven't been looking for a Locsha.

I'm not disputing the fine knife status. It is an exceptional knife. I want to help clarify my ideas about what is and is not custom, and while I was far out of line initially to question that in someone else's thread I feel that this community would best answer that question.
 
brownshoe said:
By the way Les, anytime you bring in someone's work and product into a discussion, you make it personal. You could have ignored the remark, but you see fit to challenge him and riducule his knives. Not very classy for someone who has a public career in this little world.
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actually it was George's statement that drew attention to himself & his work. I was just curious , based on George's description of custom , how he can offer ready made knives , yet still consider them customs ( which they would be since he is a Custom Knife Maker ).

Either way , this is just discussion , we are not trying to find world peace. Opinions traded , views expressed , at the end of the day , they are worth only what you want them to be worth.
 
perhaps George Tichbourne does not use a template, and every knife is created one at a time and is a 'one off'. That, to me is a custom knife. That a customer is either anticipated or real is a discussion which could be very interesting.

A maker might offer a 'model' of knife, which is made one at a time and might have little changes from knife to knife. This, to me, is different than producing a number of knives in a batch, of the same model, and finishing them at the same time.

A custom knife maker produces a knife, while a production knife maker produces knives. This statement does involve an understanding of the underlying temporal state which sets the context for same.:confused::D
 
Hi Brownshoe:

By the way Les, anytime you bring in someone's work and product into a discussion, you make it personal. You could have ignored the remark, but you see fit to challenge him and ridicule his knives. Not very classy for someone who has a public career in this little world.
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GT brought his definition into this discussion...as such he then opens himself and his work to discussion.

I could have ignored it...but we do too much of that in the world today. People are given a break or cut slack for making statements that could be an issue. Then they come up with some excuse or look for someone else to enable their behavior by chastising the person who didn't ignore their comment.

You will note that others also chided GT for his statements. Or did you miss that.

Brownshoe as one who has been chided and dismissed on this forum numerous times. I appreciate the fact you are trying to take up for the "underdog".

Fact is that GT has realized the error of his posts and has decided to withdraw from the fray.

Like you, he knows where to find me. Either right here or a PM or Email, Or phone.

As you stated I have a very public career in a very little world.
 
Hi Lorien,

Custom knives are like pornography...no one can define it...but everyone knows what it is.

When in doubt go to a knife show and hold up any knife. You will quickly get a consensus as to whether it is a factory or custom knife.
 
Lorien said:
perhaps George Tichbourne does not use a template, and every knife is created one at a time and is a 'one off'. That, to me is a custom knife. That a customer is either anticipated or real is a discussion which could be very interesting.

A maker might offer a 'model' of knife, which is made one at a time and might have little changes from knife to knife. This, to me, is different than producing a number of knives in a batch, of the same model, and finishing them at the same time.

A custom knife maker produces a knife, while a production knife maker produces knives. This statement does involve an understanding of the underlying temporal state which sets the context for same.:confused::D
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I would agree with your idea of what "custom" is , however based on George's description:
must be made to CUSTOMER specifications and requirements either in handle material, blade grind or some other change.
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So no customer input = not custom , I was just wondering if the "available knives " listed on his site were considered custom ?

I could care less if they are called custom , hand made , custom hand made , etc. I was only questioning why his site indicates something different from his stated viewpoint.

I am in no way saying his view is wrong , or that mine or anyone else's opinion is right.
 
Josh K said:
What about say a non-blem Kershaw Volt? Or a Spyderco Gunting? These are production knives that are increasingly difficult to find.

Granted I have seen maybe one or two in recent years and no Locsha, but I also haven't been looking for a Locsha.

I'm not disputing the fine knife status. It is an exceptional knife. I want to help clarify my ideas about what is and is not custom, and while I was far out of line initially to question that in someone else's thread I feel that this community would best answer that question.
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My Locsha was made by hand one at a time. The knives you mentioned are mass produced.
 
There seems to be some serious problems here defining what a "custom" knife is so let's go back to the 56 Chevy analogy.

If you decide to build a CUSTOM 56 Chevy you start with a stock 56 Chevy.

My 56 Chevy translated to knife terms is the heat treated blade (consider this the chassis of the knife) to which bolsters may added (consider these the bumpers) and handle material (interior).

In my case I make the blades several at a time and heat treat them so they will be ready to finish in a timely fashon for the customer then hang them on the wall until needed.

To this blade are added bolsters...choice of brass, 416 stainless, or damasteel.

The blade may be fileworked in any of a mumber of patterns depending on customer preferance.

The choice of handle materials include Mammoth, black paper micarta, black linen micarta, brown canvas micarta, white corian, sambar stag, red deer antler, waterbuffalo horn, ironwood, cocobolo, pau ferro, thuya burl, african blackwood, macassa ebony, stabilized woods, polyester pearl (various colours), sheep horn and so on.

The handle may be attached with 3/32 " pins, thong tube, 1/4" pin, or hidden pins.

So how is it that having blades ready to finish after heat treating is not part of a custom knife business?

Today I had a customer come in looking for an elk hunter with Stainless bolsters. I had one in stock in the store..........YEAH I have my own retail outlet which must contain inventory for customers who like what they see on the shelf. Do any other makers have a full fledged retail outlet attached to their shops?

Well to get back to the point the customer thought that he would prefer a stag handled knife so we went into the shop and the looked at the inventory of handle materials so he could select the right piece of antler for "his" knife.
Unfortunately I also opened a drawer filled with Ironwood and when he showed interest in it I began showing various grain patterns available so he changed his mind from stag to select a beautiful set of Ironwood scales. We discussed exactly how the scales should be cut to best show the wood off on his knife. He then asked if he could have a stainless thong tube instead of the standard two small pins on the showroom sample.

I dropped everything and began working on a blade from the stock on the wall, polished it, cut and installed staineless bolsters, shaped and polished the bolsters, cut and temporarily installed the scales, shaped and fine sanded the scales, buffed the scales with carnuba wax to make excess epoxy removal easier and epoxied the scales in place.

He will return tomorrow to pick up the finished knife that I consider that he has had a large part in creating, customizing it if you will.

Anybody want to argue my 56 Chevy analogy any longer?

Les I am still waiting for that apology.

George
 
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