PLEASE Help convince me!

[JCK]

yeah thanks for the advice, and no offence taken, i see what your tring to say, and appreciate the help, but at school we had numerous cops talk to us especialyl about possession of knives and other stuff. Then again they wern't customs.

I don't like black blades for that exact reason, look kinda mall ninja gay imo, as i have no need for reducing glare on my blade.

Secondly, I'm only interested in carrying on private property, and even then I have no intention of really carrying it while in my home, as I see no point. I would use it for my hiking trips, but then that raises another question even if I do go through all the paperwork to get it into australia and into my possession, if I am going to say, new zealand to do some tramping, can't customs confsicate it from me as i fly out of aus/in to NZ, or becuase its with all my hiking gear, in my pack, will that count as a legal and viable reason for posession and having it in my pack, as the reason would be obvious I would think.

 

[sambo.]

yeah thanks for the advice, and no offence taken, i see what your tring to say, and appreciate the help, but at school we had numerous cops talk to us especialyl about possession of knives and other stuff. Then again they wern't customs..

no sweat.

I don't like black blades for that exact reason, look kinda mall ninja gay imo, as i have no need for reducing glare on my blade.

good to hear.

Secondly, I'm only interested in carrying on private property, and even then I have no intention of really carrying it while in my home, as I see no point. I would use it for my hiking trips, but then that raises another question even if I do go through all the paperwork to get it into australia and into my possession, if I am going to say, new zealand to do some tramping, can't customs confsicate it from me as i fly out of aus/in to NZ, or becuase its with all my hiking gear, in my pack, will that count as a legal and viable reason for posession and having it in my pack, as the reason would be obvious I would think.

ok, they wouldn't care about you taking it OUT of Australia. but the kiwis might care about you taking it INTO NZ. so check with the kiwis first.

bringing it back shouldn't pose any major dramas, assuming it's legal for you to own in Oz anyways. here is actually where buying it off a local supplier is a good idea, coz you can just ask them "I bloody well bought it in Australia, why the hell can't I bring it back INTO Australia?"

in any event, the purpose you describe is a "legitimate reason" for carrying a knife in Australia.

hanging around outside the movie cinemas playing with your benchmade knife ISN'T a "legitimate use".

the Aussie laws, while a PITA, aren't that hard to stay on the right side of. a lot of it comes down to the mood of the copper at the time. so if you do have it on you when perhaps you shouldn't, maintaining a polite and respectful manner with the copper in question is probably a good move. getting all in their face and loud about it, isn't a very good move.

 

[JCK]

no sweat.



good to hear.




ok, they wouldn't care about you taking it OUT of Australia. but the kiwis might care about you taking it INTO NZ. so check with the kiwis first.

bringing it back shouldn't pose any major dramas, assuming it's legal for you to own in Oz anyways. here is actually where buying it off a local supplier is a good idea, coz you can just ask them "I bloody well bought it in Australia, why the hell can't I bring it back INTO Australia?"

in any event, the purpose you describe is a "legitimate reason" for carrying a knife in Australia.

hanging around outside the movie cinemas playing with your benchmade knife ISN'T a "legitimate use".

the Aussie laws, while a PITA, aren't that hard to stay on the right side of. a lot of it comes down to the mood of the copper at the time. so if you do have it on you when perhaps you shouldn't, maintaining a polite and respectful manner with the copper in question is probably a good move. getting all in their face and loud about it, isn't a very good move.

Yeah thats good to know, I shall inquire about that. Also i don't have anything against cops, so me screaming its legal and waving it in their face, opening and closing it, well thats definately not what I'd do.

Also if i say i bought it from australia why can't bring it back in, would I/how would I prove that i did buy it from australia

 

[sambo.]

Also if i say i bought it from australia why can't bring it back in, would I/how would I prove that i did buy it from australia

take a copy of the receipt with you.

 

[JCK]

take a copy of the receipt with you.

duh! had a bit of a memory blank, also legear only sells a black blade lain edge version, so are there any other australian mini rukus retailers around.
Like could I get a knife shop in the city, king of knives or something to order it in for me on behalf of them?

 

[sambo.]

duh! had a bit of a memory blank, also legear only sells a black blade lain edge version, so are there any other australian mini rukus retailers around.
Like could I get a knife shop in the city, king of knives or something to order it in for me on behalf of them?

i don't know.

sorry, but i really don't. you still need to figure out if you can legally own one of these suckers anyways.

i would contact legear and ask them straight up if it's legal for them to sell you one. if they say yes, ASK THEM TO ORDER ONE IN FOR YOU in the blade style you desire.

if it is legal for you to own in Australia, then you shouldn't need an import permit. order it from the USA (ebay, knifecentre.com, whatever), pray the customs pukes don't have an apoplectic fit when it arrives. or, alternativly, when you turn 18, get the requisit paper warfare sorted out and just order on in on your own.

it all hinges on if the damn thing is legal for civilians to own in Australia. i hate to say it, but my gut feeling is that it won't be (it's a one-handed opening, locking blade. i think they're verboeten these days). the only way to be certain is to ASK both legear and customs.

get on the phone first thing Monday.

edit: i'm pretty certain legear won't be the only retailer of benchmade in australia.

edit2: Google Is Your Friend. cuttingedgeknives.com.au also lists Benchmade products.

 

[JCK]

Well heres an extract of one of the emails I got back from customs so I

The Benchmade Mini Rukus 615 is considered to be a flick knife or similar device under the Customs (Prohibited Imports) Regulations 1956. Therefore, permission to import this knife is required. ​

I interpret that as without a permit it is illegal, and with one it IS legal, but then how can it be illegal, when you can buy it from australian sites. edit: without a permit

And that one from cutting edge is a combo but I should be able to order in one from them? They would be maybe better than LEGEAR as they are a "civilian" knife seller, as oposed to legear.
​

 

[sambo.]

I interpret that as without a permit it is illegal, and with one it IS legal, but then how can it be illegal, when you can buy it from australian sites. edit: without a permit

remember: Customs is ONLY concerned with what is coming INTO the country.

at some stage, that knife got added to a list of knives for which you require an Import Permit in order to get it shipped into Australia. this does NOT mean that it's illegal to OWN in Australia. it's just illegal to IMPORT one without a permit.

another example is the venerable Fairbairn-Sykes pattern daggers. i can legally buy, own and even carry one in Queensland. but if i take one into NSW, i can get arrested for even having it without a knife-collectors permit etc. however, if I wished to purchase a Fairbairn-Sykes pattern knife from overseas, I would need to get an import permit for it (the F-S is on the same list as the Benchmade, but for different reasons: it's a double edged dagger)

seriously mate, i think you need to call up the shop and just ask 'em straight out: "Can You Sell This Knife To An 18 Year Old Civilian?". if the answer is "Yes!", then i rekon buy off a local dealer and save yourself the hassles of wading through the bureaucracy that is Customs and AQIS.

the aforementioned Fallkniven S1 i'm planning to buy doesn't have any kind of restrictions on it, so i can just order the blank (or a completed blade) with no paperwork, in theory. some customs puke could still have a seizure when it arrives.

 

[JCK]

Yep but all the shops are closed, its 5:45 in the arvo, so no on will answer their phones. I'll ring as soon as possible. Also, one last question, you said customs cares whats coming in, so if I was using australia post, would that be an issue, i assume not. just want to make sure.

But thank you heaps for all your advice sambo, you've helped me clear up a lot of things I had concerns over, and I'll remember this wehn importing other things as well.

Oh and one last thing, someone suggested to declare it as garden tool or hand tools and say it only cost like 40 bucks, but thats a massive risk, and wouldnt customs be sus against that, as i'm sure heaps of people have tried doing it that way?

but thanks again massive help :thumbup:

UPDATE: I rang cutting edge knives and they only have serrated version, as benchmade is not chipping to wholesalers anymore so that would take legear out fo the question too I guess.So does that mean that ebay is my only way to get the knife i want?

 

[sambo.]

Yep but all the shops are closed, its 5:45 in the arvo, so no on will answer their phones. I'll ring as soon as possible. Also, one last question, you said customs cares whats coming in, so if I was using australia post, would that be an issue, i assume not. just want to make sure.

if it's being shipped WITHIN Australia, Customs doesn't care.

Oh and one last thing, someone suggested to declare it as garden tool or hand tools and say it only cost like 40 bucks, but thats a massive risk, and wouldnt customs be sus against that, as i'm sure heaps of people have tried doing it that way?

i think this is just begging for a holiday at Her Majesties Guest House.

DO NOT LIE ON CUSTOMS DECLARATION FORMS. IT IS A FEDERAL OFFENCE, PUNISHABLE BY MANY MOONS OF INCARCERATION TO DO SO.

I really, really mean that.

UPDATE: I rang cutting edge knives and they only have serrated version, as benchmade is not chipping to wholesalers anymore so that would take legear out fo the question too I guess.So does that mean that ebay is my only way to get the knife i want?

sounds like you need to work on your google-fu. i'm certain there are more than two distributers in Australia.

if you luck out and are still determined to have that particular knife, then it looks like an exciting trip through the byzantine, labrynthian world of the Australian Customs Service is the joyous experience ahead of you.

 

[JCK]

yeah I was just asking as I am desperate. Then again so are the men in jail

My google-fu is pretty bad but I''ll try.

And if worse come to worse, will me joining Australian Knife collector club, let me get this knife? (this is asked more in the context of it being available for me to buy, rather than from a legal p.o.v)

EDIT: could my local camping/army disposals store maybe order one in for me, or are they not classified as a knife distributor, just wondering, i've sent them an email

 

[sambo.]

i suppose you could ask a camping shop to get one in for you, but unless they already carry Benchmade products, i don't like your chances. it appears that Australian retailers are shying away from Benchmade folders simply because the Axis mechanism thingamabob has made it onto the Nasty List down at Customs/Aust Fed Police.

i've had a bit of a think about your predicament over the weekend. while i realise i'm the one who said you should get the knife that YOU want. but seeing as getting said knife looks like degenerating into an expensive bureaucratic farce, perhaps you should consider a different blade at least for the time being.

for someone of your age and for your inteded usage (trekking/hiking), i would actually strongly recommend you get a fixed blade for the following reasons:

1: you will not have anywhere near the temptations to carry a fixed blade knife around with you as an EDC blade that you would get from a folder. i was 18 once and i know the temptations you face at that age. this is the main reason i would recommend a fixed blade for you. i would HATE for you to go through all the hassles to get that mini-rukus only to have it confiscated by police because you wanted to show it to your mates.

2: personally, when i'm out bush, i would much rather have a good fixed blade at my side than any folder. no matter how funky the locking mechanism or how smooth the opening action there is no folding knife yet made that instills the same sense of confidence in me that a fixed blade will.

3: economy. when buying a folder you are paying for the pivot mechanism, the locking mechanism, the work that needs to go into the handle to make a folder AND you're paying for the steel and shaping of the blade. with a fixed blade, you are ONLY paying for the quality of the steel and the shaping of the blade (and a handle & sheath). for your proposed budget of AUD$200 you could get some of the finest steel ever honed to an edge and held by man.

4: if you are actually after an EDC blade (i'm not calling you a liar, i'm just covering other possibilities) then i would suggest you look at a pliers based multi-tool or a SAK. Under Australia's pathetic knife laws, it seems that a Leatherman or similar flys under the radar a lot better than most locking folding knives. When asked "Why do you need to carry this?" by police i have explained myself by simply pointing at the Leatherman most cops carry on their own belt and saying "Same reason you do, they're useful." a pliers based multitool will come in a lot more handy as an EDC than a single bladed folder. The same applies to SAKs.

Benchmade makes some nice fixed blades, unfortunatly they seem to mostly have black blades or combo-edges.

you might want to have a look at the offerings from RAT Cutlery, Fallkniven, Kershaw, Cold Steel or Buck. All of those brands have their loyal adherants and they all have some high-quality offerings for around US$150 or less. hell, some of the Bucks are US$50 or so.

i'm not saying you should give up on getting that mini-rukus. i'm saying that with all the bureaucracy you'll have to wade through, getting a fixed blade will negate 99.9% of the paperwork. i also have to add that even if you join the AKC, i somehow doubt the cops will give an 18 year old permission to import a "flick knife".

side note: i read the post in the other thread recommending that you tighten the pivot screws. now, this will help if you get stopped by police and are found to be carrying it when perhaps you shouldn't be. you can show the cops that it isn't a "flick" knife. however, when it comes to importing that knife, it's the brand-name and model number that get flagged. if it turns up without the requisit formwork Customs won't play with it to discover it's not a "flick" knife, they'll just send it straight back from whence it came.

 

[JCK]

i suppose you could ask a camping shop to get one in for you, but unless they already carry Benchmade products, i don't like your chances. it appears that Australian retailers are shying away from Benchmade folders simply because the Axis mechanism thingamabob has made it onto the Nasty List down at Customs/Aust Fed Police.

Yep and theres not much I can do about it

1: you will not have anywhere near the temptations to carry a fixed blade knife around with you as an EDC blade that you would get from a folder. i was 18 once and i know the temptations you face at that age. this is the main reason i would recommend a fixed blade for you. i would HATE for you to go through all the hassles to get that mini-rukus only to have it confiscated by police because you wanted to show it to your mates.

yeah even though i have NO reason to carrry one as far as utlity purposes go, sowing my mates might just slip in to it, even though I'd be worried of getting caught in the first place for carrying it.

2: personally, when i'm out bush, i would much rather have a good fixed blade at my side than any folder. no matter how funky the locking mechanism or how smooth the opening action there is no folding knife yet made that instills the same sense of confidence in me that a fixed blade will.

3: economy. when buying a folder you are paying for the pivot mechanism, the locking mechanism, the work that needs to go into the handle to make a folder AND you're paying for the steel and shaping of the blade. with a fixed blade, you are ONLY paying for the quality of the steel and the shaping of the blade (and a handle & sheath). for your proposed budget of AUD$200 you could get some of the finest steel ever honed to an edge and held by man.

Finest steel - what companies or knives do you mean?
I was looking at a BRKT Bravo 1, the aesthetics and other things appeal to me

4: if you are actually after an EDC blade (i'm not calling you a liar, i'm just covering other possibilities) then i would suggest you look at a pliers based multi-tool or a SAK. Under Australia's pathetic knife laws, it seems that a Leatherman or similar flys under the radar a lot better than most locking folding knives. When asked "Why do you need to carry this?" by police i have explained myself by simply pointing at the Leatherman most cops carry on their own belt and saying "Same reason you do, they're useful." a pliers based multitool will come in a lot more handy as an EDC than a single bladed folder. The same applies to SAKs.

No offence taken. At my age though and the things I do right now, I don't have an interest in carrying a knife or multiool. But 1, 3 5 or more years down the track, I might, so good point anyway

Benchmade makes some nice fixed blades, unfortunatly they seem to mostly have black blades or combo-edges.

Thats another thing I'm confused about, I COULD get the black blade version of the mini rukus from LEGEAR, however, if i wanted to remove the coating, wouldn't that take away some of its corroision resistance properties away from it? and its sure not sheeple friendly, probably not even on a tramping track in NZ.

i'm not saying you should give up on getting that mini-rukus. i'm saying that with all the bureaucracy you'll have to wade through, getting a fixed blade will negate 99.9% of the paperwork. i also have to add that even if you join the AKC, i somehow doubt the cops will give an 18 year old permission to import a "flick knife".

Yeah 18 y.o. seems to go against me, and this is off topic but even looking for a part time job, "your 18" - yes - they offer to give me shift times that don't work with my uni timetable

side note: i read the post in the other thread recommending that you tighten the pivot screws. now, this will help if you get stopped by police and are found to be carrying it when perhaps you shouldn't be. you can show the cops that it isn't a "flick" knife. however, when it comes to importing that knife, it's the brand-name and model number that get flagged. if it turns up without the requisit formwork Customs won't play with it to discover it's not a "flick" knife, they'll just send it straight back from whence it came.

This is also confusing me, as a few people have said that they've done this and customs let it through, however this may have been before the whole "crackdown" on all benchmade knives like you were saying.

thanks for the reply though

 

[sambo.]

Finest steel - what companies or knives do you mean?

the actual blade i was thinking about is the same one I will be ordering sometime in the next few days (just waiting until the RBA up's interest rates this week which should see another jump in the AUD$)

The Fallkniven S1.

5" of laminated VG-10 blade for less than US$100 (that's importing a blank and putting a handle on it myself and making a sheath). you can get a rubber-handled S1 with a leather or plastic sheath for ~US$130 from the States, or buy one in Australia for ~AUD$240'ish. (and Australian retailers wonder why so few people buy high-end knives in Australia..... i mean, i would buy in Oz if it didn't involve first Assuming The Position)

and NO HASSLES WITH AUSTRALIAN CUSTOMS ORIFICERS!

I was looking at a BRKT Bravo 1, the aesthetics and other things appeal to me

oooooh, pretty

that's also a very nice looking knife and i'm sure it would serve you well.

that BRKT Bravo 1 also has the undeniable benefit of: NO HASSLES WITH AUSTRALIAN CUSTOMS!!111!!

 

[JCK]

Yeah I was looking at the S1 for quite a long time, it has a nice shape, and a slightly military look, and I wasn't really concerned about the blade steel as I'm a noob and really don't know much.
However I then read that the edge of the S1 becuase its laminated steel chips easily if you were to accidently hit a rock or hard surface.
So then I found the bravo one - instant attraction, the knife looked cool to me, and apparently it wasn't meant to look cool, so thats a plus.
but either one I've heard great revies about them.

I may still get a S1 later though

AND I may end up getting the black blade rukus from australian seller, even though I'm paying like 50 bucks extra oh well, NO CUSTOMS is a HUGE plus

thanks for your help

 

[dougo83]

Honestly? You are out of work. Looking for a job. You only have a fewbucks in the bank. You have to buy textbooks. You want to spend a few bills on a knife you don't really need.

With all that in mind...NO.

 

[dougo83]

really, really big, unecessary font

Actually, claiming it as a tool is fine. At least it is over here. The price is something else...

 

[sambo.]

Actually, claiming it as a tool is fine. At least it is over here. The price is something else...

"over here"? where is that? the USA?

i'm NOT talking about US Legislation. I am talking about Australian legislation.

it is not fine to list a knife that appears on the Prohibited Weapons List as a "Tool" on a Customs Declaration Form.

if Customs opened that particular package and found that particular knife (Benchmade mini-rukus) listed as a "Tool" you could potentially be charged under some particularly nasty legislation.

sure, you might get away with it. but then again, you might wind up at Her Majesties Guest House for 10-20 years.

and i'm not joking about that potential kind of penalty. much of the federal Prohibited Weapons Act was re-written following Port Arthur by a chest thumping Jackboot Johnney Howard.

as such: they contain some rather extreme sentencing provisions including some nasty minimum sentences.

basically, get busted importing a "flick" knife into Australia without the necessary paperwork and you might as well just import AK-47s. they are essentially considered in the same category under the Prohibited Weapons Act.

i definatly wouldn't ever do such a thing nor would i reccomend anyone else to do so.

 

[JCK]

Honestly? You are out of work. Looking for a job. You only have a fewbucks in the bank. You have to buy textbooks. You want to spend a few bills on a knife you don't really need.

With all that in mind...NO.

That is all true, however, I do have a spare 200 in the bank to play with, as well as actualy saving money for everyday expenses, books etc, thus why I'm looking for a knife that maybe is that bit mroee expensive, but then I won't have to buy another for a while.

 

[sambo.]

i thought i'd replied to this, seem like intarweb gremlins ate my post.

However I then read that the edge of the S1 becuase its laminated steel chips easily if you were to accidently hit a rock or hard surface.

hmm, got any links?

i've asked a lot of Fallkniven owners a lot of questions before settling on an S1. none of them mentioned this as an issue.

then again, show me a knife you can cut rock with that won't chip.

So then I found the bravo one - instant attraction, the knife looked cool to me, and apparently it wasn't meant to look cool, so thats a plus.
but either one I've heard great revies about them.

sounds like you've found your fixed blade then!

it's a very nice looking piece of kit.

if you are feeling the student pennypinch, you may wish to consider a decent cheap blade. something like a Mora Clipper 840 or 860 can be had for ~AUD$20 + Shipping. it won't take anything like the beating that an S1 or Bravo will, but by all accounts they slice like lightsabres and are made of a decent grade of steel.

i'll be ordering a handful of these with my S1. one for my car, one for mums car and a spare i can either lend to friends or use as a "beater" blade.

I may still get a S1 later though

hehe, i want a TK-6, but i won't be buying that in the immediate future. i'm hoping prices will drop to something reasonable.

that's the problem with nice knives, one is never enough!

AND I may end up getting the black blade rukus from australian seller, even though I'm paying like 50 bucks extra oh well, NO CUSTOMS is a HUGE plus

i'm not sure what state you are in. it might help to chat with a dealer in Queensland or the NT rather than SA/NSW/Vic as knife laws are, for the time being, somewhat less restrictive in those two states.

thanks for your help

no worries mate. glad to help.

please let me know what you decide on and how it works out for you.