Please help me out on this pre-sell issue

To answer your question, I walked by at least 10 tables where eveerything was sold right off the bat. I commented about it a friend who had been in there for several hours with an exhibitor's badge helping a mutual friend set up his table - and he pointed out that a very significant number of those knives were already sold at least hours earlier when he got there that morning.

I did not keep track of the exact number of tables, the exact number of knives, or the names of all the makers, but it sure as hell wasn't one or two isolated incidents.

Now allow me to make one last distinction - and I want to emphasize this again because it seems a lot of folks - especially you, Gus (and this is why I'm getting so frustrated with you) either don't understand it or are deliberately ignoring me when I say it: I am not upset about me not buying some specific knife, I am upset about people engaging in unfair and ungentlemanlike behavior. As I said just a few posts earlier, this isn't about me, it's about the knife show and the people attending it.
Yes, I was pushed by other collectors. I saw several folks cut in front of the line outside. And now I set here and watch you defend people who say they will do whatever it takes to get a knife, and call me stupid for not engaging in the same behavior.

db,
If my responses to Jeremy seem a bit harsh, it's because Jeremy has called me "stupid," he has called me "cheesedick," he has called me a "piece of crap", and he has threatened to fly up here to beat the "holy crap" out of me. Forgive me if my patience is wearing thin.
 
I was at a table when the show opened his knives were gone right off the bat (within a few seconds). He did not presell. I am aware of quite a few makers who sold what they had on their tables in minutes and seconds.

Do you know for a fact that those 10 tables where empty due to preselling?
(I have my doubts).

And now I set here and watch you defend people who say they will do whatever it takes to get a knife, and call me stupid for not engaging in the same behavior.
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(Is that about me or not Wulf)

If it is:
Yeah here you go with your garbage again. :rolleyes:
Show me where I have defended anyone who says they will do whatever it takes to get a knife.

Let me make this quite clear so that you understand:

Like you I strongly deplore that type of behavior from anyone friend or not. I also highly resent your statement that I would defend or endorse that type of behavior from anyone friend or not. (In other words you are not the only one frustrated nor are you the only one loosing respect.) In short that was assinine and people who know me, know it was assinine. You are free to attempt to justify that statment any way you wish. It does not matter since it is totally false.

I also strong deplore your insuations that in order to get a knife the thing to do is to establish a pretensive friendship and or kiss a makers ass. Most makers are not that stupid.

Lets say that 20 thousand people attened Blade. (I do not know what the figure was). Do you expect all 20 thousand to act the way you and I would like to see them act. Some are not going to. You seem to see that few people as a huge problem. I see the problem as human nature that stick out (thankfully) like a sore thumb at a knife show and I laugh at it. No knife should be important enough to anyone for them to behave in that manner. It sucks, but it is not a huge and prevelant problem.
 
Wulf,

You are truely beginning to piss me off. Not once did I threaten you oranyone. I made a joke after Kit's post, where he joked about not bringing knives to shows again.

You have constantly twisted my words around and tried to paint a picture of me as a cold, evil son of a bitch that would kill my first born to get any knife I wanted.

"whatever it takes" in an ethical, fair manner is what I do to obtain knives. I put in the time and work to call makers, talk to them on-line, send e-mails, posts on forums, talk with them at other shows, etc... to make sure I secure the knives I want.

You have yet to once prove where I have done or suggested people do anything unethical to obtain knives.

I'm also really tired of you acting like a victim. You want to start on me, then you throw a fit when I fire back. I should probably just let it go, but I have a hard time sitting back when a **** like you starts in on me.

You are pathetic. Not simply because of your thoughts here, but by your actions towards others, then trying to play yourself off as a victim.

I garuntee if I was a ruthless dirtbag only after knives, the makers I buy from would see through it in a minute. They know me better then that, and I am happy to call many of them friends.

JR
 
Another question.

Those 10 tables with no knives. Were the knives sold to folks including dealers who have supported that maker for years (maybe even decades)? Were those knives that were gone orders that were fullfilled at the show. Did the maker actually have unspoken for knives that were taken to the show or is that an assumption? I still have doubts that preselling emptied more than one or 2 out of 400+ tables of custom knives.

Does anyone have that knowldege to be able to condem those actions?

Not me. No friggin way. I wont even pretend to be able to make sound judgements on how a maker conducts their business.

I also know that there are only a handfull of people in the world capable of making those judgements anything else are assumptions or simple arrogance in my opinion.
 
And we haven't even touched on the subject of Lotteries or Drawings. That would be a whole new can of worms.

Just trying to stimulate conversation :)
 
Kit Carson said:
And we haven't even touched on the subject of Lotteries or Drawings. That would be a whole new can of worms.

Just trying to stimulate conversation :)
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You got a little bit of devil in you, don't you? :D

I think the only way knives should be sold at a show is through lottery.

IM KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!
 
My guess is that most empty tables are that way because the maker sold out to VIP guests or in the first few minutes of a show. As Gus has stated, I doubt very much that pre-selling would account for many at all.
 
Kit Carson said:
And we haven't even touched on the subject of Lotteries or Drawings. That would be a whole new can of worms.

Just trying to stimulate conversation :)
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LOL :D. I wonder if there are folks who put more than one card down on the same knife.
 
Untill a maker has been paid for the knife, it still belongs exclusively to the maker. The name of the game at shows is sales. Knife shows are not rolling knife museums. The makers, dealers and suppliers pay large dividends to attend these shows or ''sales''. The only thing an empty table tells me is that one of the makers I admire might get to keep making knives for a bit longer. I want the makers to sellout whenever, however they can. :rolleyes:
 
Now wait just a minute C.M. :D. This is not the place for common sense and level headed thinking :) .
 
brownshoe said:
Think of it in a different way. To the maker, every knife sold is food on the table and shoes for his children. He would not be doing his familial duty if he did not sell his knives at the first opportunity..."a bird in hand is better than two in the bush."

If people would enjoy knives for what they are and stop fixating on the "status" of a "hot maker's" knife they'd be a lot happier. My custom that gets the most use is a $25 blade made from a saw done by an Amish farmer. No crowds around his stall at the farmer's market.
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Just so. That Amish piece sounds like a treasure; I love honest working knives.


Regards,

Pat
 
"food on the table"

Wait a minute!!!!!! I thought knifemakers only drink their profits........:p :D
 
Children, children....please! Play nice or we'll take away your toys!

Come on guys, give me a break. I don't post here often, but several things just made me have to reply to all this.

Let's remember to put all this in perspective, shall we? First, we are talking about knives. They are sharp pieces of metal used for cutting things. The fact that we have elevated them into objects that generate the type of bad attitudes displayed by many here show me that we all have too much time and money for our own good.

Listen: There is a large world out there, and room enough for all of us. In my case, there are makers who claim outrageous things about their knives and it helps them sell for equally outrageous prices. I choose not to do that, but I hold niether the maker or his customers in contempt. If he chooses to act like that, so be it. If it helps him feed his family, and all he has to do is stretch the truth a little, that's between him and his creator. He can and frequently is a friend nonetheless.

If knife customers have different ideas about how to secure the knife they want, then that should be part of the fun of the collecting game. Some guys will naturally be more ruthless than others, and yes, they will probably end up with more knives at the end of the day. Who cares?! That's life, right?

Oh, one other thing. The last thing Wulf needs is for me to come to his rescue, he's doing just fine by himself. That said, I know Derrick and we have talked a lot, and most of it not about knives. He is a smart guy and as respectful as they come. In these forums, you can't see the look in the eye or hear the tone of the voice and it's easy to fill in those blanks from our own chair and fall into an argument that never existed in the first place. It reminds me of the two deaf guys on the porch. The first one asks the other guy the time and a minute later, they are in a fistfight over something about their mothers.

Let's all just try to play nice. If anyone out there has enough disposable income to pay the going rate for a good, handmade knife, then he is blessed, indeed.
 
Burt, thanks for not mentioning my name in the above ;)

Very well said my friend (and from a newly crowned MASTERSMITH no less!).

I agree, Derrick is a VERY good guy. I haven't met him yet, but I bet Jeremy is too.

It sure is easy to sit here in front of the ol' pc and let our days frustrations really burst out in our own little dissertations we call posts. Especially if we happen to have a cup of coffee in our hand! :)

My vote, is that next year at Blade we all get together down at the pit. I'll buy you guys a drink (if I've actually sold a knife), and we can gleefully enjoy our common threads (KNIVES!!!) and celebrate our differences.

So ending with those infamous words, "can't we all just get along???"

Thanks for your $0.02 Burt :D
Nick
 
I went to a knife show this weekend. It was in Springfield MO. I didn't fight anyone to the tables. There wasn't one super duper hot maker at the place. Actually there were more guys who go for collectible Case, Cammilus, old knives, etc. than custom makers. My only disappointment was one person didn't have much stock due to "having sold out at Blade" and the show was smaller than in past years. However, I still found a nice $200 custom slipjoint. I got a CRKT Kiss for my son, just what he ordered. My daughter was given two knives just for being cute. I had a great time, ate BBQ, enjoyed the Missouri country side on the way there and back. Even stopped at a town carnival on the way home. Bought self-service honey in Fair Play (who could cheat in a town called Fair Play?) Maybe not the glamour and excitement like Blade, but still a good time and good knives.
 
hi guys, I,m new to post here but I am a fulltime maker and have been for 10 years.Most makers I know are not rich in any way but for their skill.To go and do the blade show or any big show the maker will be out 1000.00 or more just to do the show.Some pre-sales help insure that I will at least break even on the show.As I can only make so many knives in a year if you really want one at a show call the maker and see what he is bringing to the show.If trully interested in a piece tell them that and go to see them as soon as the show opens.I will hold a knive for someone to look at if they don,t show when they say the knive goes on the table.By calling first I can even adjust the knives I am making for the show to have something you would like different handle,mossiac bolsters,filework ,patterns in blade steel .More makers need to keep a photo album at the table also to show their range of work.If they sell out they can show photos and take orders you will see stuff in the photos that never get press becuase it was made and sold with out going to a show.I would like to here from other fulltime makers on this .There are not that many of us.Most so called fulltime makers have other income wife with a good job,retired with benifits,ranch,oil wells,family money,ect,ect.To make a living from knives only is a hard road to go but most of us would not have it anyother way ,not because we can not work in the real world but choose not to.I will make knives till the day I die ,I will never retire because this is what I love.
 
Just a statistic...

Four of the Top Five most posted-to/watched threads of this whole year in this forum are related to the 'pre-sell' issue. 'Pictures of Ron Newton's knives' is the only top-fiver unrelated.

Just found this interesting....

Coop
 
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