Hi AG,
Yes, definitions do make a difference.
Somewhere in the 70's the term "Custom" knives was coined. Not to be used in the "narrow" scope of it's true definition, but as more of a marketing word.
Consequently, to most involved in "Custom" knives we understand that there are two custom defintions.
Using your example, a drop point hunter delivered by Bob Loveless with green micarta, may not be a custom in the narrow scope. However, in the large scope it is a "Custom" knife. As it is a hand made knife. This term "hand made" has also been open for debate. No knife is literally hand made, as saws, mills, grinders, drill press', etc. are used. Perhaps the term should be hand tool made.
Back to your example, Buck Custom Shop does not produce custom knives. When contacting a factory such as Buck or Randall when you request a change to an established pattern, using the accurate definition, this is a "Customized" knife.
Are these knives, hand made? Yes, they are. As are Chris Reeve Knives, Busse, William Henry, Randall and Lile Knives.
However, none of these knives, as they are made today, can accurately be called "Custom" knives.
Some of the confusion comes from the fact that Chris Reeve, Jerry Busse and Jimmy Lile were/are known as custom knife makers. Compound this with the fact that you can still find "Custom" knives from all three of these makers. Where as Busse and Lile have changed their logo's, Reeve has not. Further adding to the confusion.
When people ask me, as I have done many times on this forum. Check with the Guild and see if the construction techniques meet with the Guild's requirement for admission into the Guild. If if meets the requirements, it is a "Custom" knife, if not it is not a "Custom" knife.
Randall, Reeve, Busse, White Wing, William Henry, Lile and a few others do not meet the Guild criteria. There for these knives are not "Custom" knives.
Spark was nice enough to break down the categories into production and custom, folder and fixed. He did this to help eliminate confusing posts. As in BF old form, you would see an add such as this one:
Elishewitz, Onion, Terzuola, Carson, Ralph, Lightfoot. Well those of us who collect custom knives would click on this only to find the ad should have read:
Benchmade, Kershaw, Spyderco, Outdoor Edge, Smith and Wesson and CRKT.
This is part of the reason for accurate definintions. As the word custom takes on a meaning of a better product. By listing the names of the makers (knowing full well these individuals had absolutely nothing to do with the construction of the knives), non the less did so to sweep for a wider customer base. While he was not necessarily dis-honest, by listing the add by maker instead of the factory that actually made the knife he was walking in that gray area.
Consequently, when I saw the post for the Randall, I suggested that it be put in the correct category. As I did for a few Busse knives that were there.
Someone just emailed me to inform me that:
- Here is a post by a well known Dealer;
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=159409
- Here is a post by a MAKER selling one of his own knives;
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=160053
- Here are a couple of Posts by two other Makers selling other Maker's knives;
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=159606
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=159728
- Here is a post for a Mad Dog brand knife (which IMO should be lumped into the same category as the Busses);
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=159420
- How about a Khukuri, No Maker or Production method identified;
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=160063
- I found no less than seven (7) For Sale posts for Busses.
- And finally there have been approx three (3) Posts in this Forum with someone selling Randalls.
It seems that out of these 16 questionable Posts only 25% were Moved or received Comments to the Seller saying they should do something different with their Post (ie. move it to a different Forum). Two of these posts were selling Randalls and now two were posts selling Busses. Of these four posts, three were submitted by the one individual.
I know that you are trying your best in your efforts to keep the Forum running smoothly and I think this is probably just an oversight so I wanted to bring it to your attention. I personally don't mind putting any For Sale posts in their proper category, but the thought that only one or two kinds of posts (or one Poster) have been singled out does concern me. Again, not trying to interfere just trying to present you with some facts that you might not have been aware of. No need to reply to me just keep up the good work.
He obviously thought I was the moderator of these forums. I can see how he would come to that conclusion. I informed him that I was not the moderator and asked he forward this to Spark.
See AG, it's not just definitions. It's keeping the custom forums as the should be. Devoid of "Non-Custom" knives. I think some of the other posts just stem from confusion caused by the new soft ware.
I think we are all in agreement that it can be confusing. I know when I am in doubt, I follow the guide lines of the Guild and ABS.
One thing they all agree on is that Custom Knife Making is not a "Team" sport.