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Please look at this and tell me if I am wrong
- Thread starter A. G. Russell
- Start date
not2sharp
Platinum Member
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- Jun 29, 1999
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- 20,413
We have been throwing around the Guild's definition of a what constitutes a "custom " knife. Perhaps we should discuss the purpose behind this definition. I believe that the definition is used to qualify guild members. It is important to know whether this is the intent, or whether the definition is intended to apply to the knives produced and marketed by the member.
I can understand if the Guild uses this benchmark to determine and qualify an example submitted for for the guilds review. Like any other student taking an exam the student must present his own work for evaluation, and care must be taken to ensure that the work is indicative of the students capabilities.
If the definition is intended to extend beyond this then perhaps the will need to look at policing its members a little better. Other than the obvious factory cooperative stuff,I have yet to see any guild member, sort his table according to what is custom, handmade, and production. According to the Guild's definition it would seem that everytime a member send a knife out to heat treat, or buys domascus stock, or has someone else provide misc. mounting hardware or engrave the blade, or perhaps only provide the sheath, that knife should no longer to be considered "custom".
If that was the original intent of the definition it certainly does not represent what is happening. I believe that this definition was intended and has been applied only with respect to knives presented for the guild member's evaluation.
N2S
I can understand if the Guild uses this benchmark to determine and qualify an example submitted for for the guilds review. Like any other student taking an exam the student must present his own work for evaluation, and care must be taken to ensure that the work is indicative of the students capabilities.
If the definition is intended to extend beyond this then perhaps the will need to look at policing its members a little better. Other than the obvious factory cooperative stuff,I have yet to see any guild member, sort his table according to what is custom, handmade, and production. According to the Guild's definition it would seem that everytime a member send a knife out to heat treat, or buys domascus stock, or has someone else provide misc. mounting hardware or engrave the blade, or perhaps only provide the sheath, that knife should no longer to be considered "custom".
If that was the original intent of the definition it certainly does not represent what is happening. I believe that this definition was intended and has been applied only with respect to knives presented for the guild member's evaluation.
N2S
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2001
- Messages
- 108
A.G. Thanks for the making the point. You undoubtedly know your business, and, although you said you were not an expert, I beg to differ. Who would have a better understanding of these matters than you? They would be few and far between.
I would also like to make a point.
If I was going to buy a knife from someone, I would not do so without questioning him on the knifes appearance, qualities, materials, etc. Conversly, if I said I was selling my custom Dozier Yukon Skinner (Never going to happen, by the way!!), and someone called to inquire, I doubt they would buy it before they new what they were getting, and at what price.
My point is, if someone makes an error in a description, a purchaser will not be misled unless the seller is purposely trying to rip someone off.
Some of us are new to this forum and maybe we are not long enough in the knife selling tooth, and the polite thing to do would be to inform, as A.G. has done, rather than jumping on the seller with "You are wrong. Your knife is not custom. You have been duped. The definition is blah, blah, blah!" If you think someone's knife has been labelled incorrectly, DON'T BUY IT!
What's next? Is an English teacher going to flame me for spelling and grammatical errors?
Maybe I'm too new at this forum, but I'm already tired of people telling other people how they are wrong because they say so.
Jet
I would also like to make a point.
If I was going to buy a knife from someone, I would not do so without questioning him on the knifes appearance, qualities, materials, etc. Conversly, if I said I was selling my custom Dozier Yukon Skinner (Never going to happen, by the way!!), and someone called to inquire, I doubt they would buy it before they new what they were getting, and at what price.
My point is, if someone makes an error in a description, a purchaser will not be misled unless the seller is purposely trying to rip someone off.
Some of us are new to this forum and maybe we are not long enough in the knife selling tooth, and the polite thing to do would be to inform, as A.G. has done, rather than jumping on the seller with "You are wrong. Your knife is not custom. You have been duped. The definition is blah, blah, blah!" If you think someone's knife has been labelled incorrectly, DON'T BUY IT!
What's next? Is an English teacher going to flame me for spelling and grammatical errors?
Maybe I'm too new at this forum, but I'm already tired of people telling other people how they are wrong because they say so.
Jet
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2001
- Messages
- 18,959
Les,
Whether unknowingly, or deliberately....you've walked completely around the issue, ending up where you started, without ever touching on the issue.
"Two definitions?" "Customized knives?" C'mon, you're cutting it pretty thin there aren't cha buddy?
As an outside observer, I'm starting to get a real funky feeling about where you're coming from...kinda like the 2nd Lt. telling me to run across the mine field, "You'll be fine, trust me" (I didn't run...)
BTW, I don't mean that in a bad way at all....it just seems to me that you're a bit of a zealot, and as such will do whatever it takes to ensure the validity of your position, regardless the cost.
I've noted from your comments in the other threads linked into this one that you're rather down on Randall's...and it shows in your posts.
I also get the feeling that while you'll dance with A.G., you'd be chomping at the bit to lash out at anyone else disagreeing with you that doesn't have his stature in the industry...and that really sets my alarm bells off.
I understand your position on "Customs" from my visit to your website, and in knowing where you're coming from, it explains much; but you obviously didn't understand my position, or that of the others here that disagree with you, based on your response to my comments about your site having fine knives, both "Custom" and "Production".
Ya know that obnoxious little kid that never stopped asking "Why"...yeah, that was me....and that kid that always stood up in class and explained why the teacher was wrong, yeah, that was me too..., and in engineering staff meetings, the one that always says, "Well, wouldn't it be better if we..." Yeah, that's me as well.
So, I'm afraid that your business interests may have clouded your objectivity, but that's just an observation from a casual observer, and not in any way intended to be a disparaging remark.
I'm reeling here guys, based on; that what is said really means something else, and dependant on a persons perspective, a knife can be either a Production/Customized/Handmade/Benchmade/and/or Custom knife, with just enough overlap to allow for arbritary interpretation...dependant on who's doing the interpretation...
"Ouch" All of this thinking is starting to hurt my simple little knife neophyte head....so, I guess I should go to bed before I suffer cerebral melt-down.
Mel
"The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes -- and ships -- and sealing-wax --
Of cabbages -- and kings --
And why the sea is boiling hot --
And whether (or not) pigs have wings."
Lewis Carrol - Through the looking glass
Whether unknowingly, or deliberately....you've walked completely around the issue, ending up where you started, without ever touching on the issue.
"Two definitions?" "Customized knives?" C'mon, you're cutting it pretty thin there aren't cha buddy?
As an outside observer, I'm starting to get a real funky feeling about where you're coming from...kinda like the 2nd Lt. telling me to run across the mine field, "You'll be fine, trust me" (I didn't run...)
BTW, I don't mean that in a bad way at all....it just seems to me that you're a bit of a zealot, and as such will do whatever it takes to ensure the validity of your position, regardless the cost.
I've noted from your comments in the other threads linked into this one that you're rather down on Randall's...and it shows in your posts.
I also get the feeling that while you'll dance with A.G., you'd be chomping at the bit to lash out at anyone else disagreeing with you that doesn't have his stature in the industry...and that really sets my alarm bells off.
I understand your position on "Customs" from my visit to your website, and in knowing where you're coming from, it explains much; but you obviously didn't understand my position, or that of the others here that disagree with you, based on your response to my comments about your site having fine knives, both "Custom" and "Production".
Ya know that obnoxious little kid that never stopped asking "Why"...yeah, that was me....and that kid that always stood up in class and explained why the teacher was wrong, yeah, that was me too..., and in engineering staff meetings, the one that always says, "Well, wouldn't it be better if we..." Yeah, that's me as well.
So, I'm afraid that your business interests may have clouded your objectivity, but that's just an observation from a casual observer, and not in any way intended to be a disparaging remark.
I'm reeling here guys, based on; that what is said really means something else, and dependant on a persons perspective, a knife can be either a Production/Customized/Handmade/Benchmade/and/or Custom knife, with just enough overlap to allow for arbritary interpretation...dependant on who's doing the interpretation...
"Ouch" All of this thinking is starting to hurt my simple little knife neophyte head....so, I guess I should go to bed before I suffer cerebral melt-down.
Mel
"The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes -- and ships -- and sealing-wax --
Of cabbages -- and kings --
And why the sea is boiling hot --
And whether (or not) pigs have wings."
Lewis Carrol - Through the looking glass
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2001
- Messages
- 108
Melvin,
Thank you. Zealot was the word I was trying to think of. Tip of the tongue sort of thing, y'know.
Jet
Thank you. Zealot was the word I was trying to think of. Tip of the tongue sort of thing, y'know.
Jet
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2000
- Messages
- 3,278
i agree.
custom- made to the customers spec's
handmade-made by a maker,and a buyer is found later (like my carson m4
. if i ordered it,it would be custom. i bought it at a show,so its handmade)
BUT, lets say you had randall build a knife to your spec's. would it be a custom,or not?
its made by hand.
its made to your specs.
IMHO,its a custom in this case,even if more than one person works on it.
personally, if its quality,i dont give a rats ass.
what really pisses me off are the asswipes on e-bay selling pakistan junk,calling it custom.
custom- made to the customers spec's
handmade-made by a maker,and a buyer is found later (like my carson m4
. if i ordered it,it would be custom. i bought it at a show,so its handmade)BUT, lets say you had randall build a knife to your spec's. would it be a custom,or not?
its made by hand.
its made to your specs.
IMHO,its a custom in this case,even if more than one person works on it.
personally, if its quality,i dont give a rats ass.
what really pisses me off are the asswipes on e-bay selling pakistan junk,calling it custom.
I agree with AG on this and furthermore I feel it is silly to say "handmade" is by one person only, if it's handmade it's handmade and the amount of people involved should not matter.
If "handmade" means made by one person only then a knife made by one man and heat treated by another is disqualified?
Really! that is such an artificial definition.
If "handmade" means made by one person only then a knife made by one man and heat treated by another is disqualified?
Really! that is such an artificial definition.
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2001
- Messages
- 2,033
Les: Thanks for the follow-up, I seem to have mis-laid mine, would you mind posting those guidlines for me, I am sure others will enjoy haveing them as well. A. G.
Definitions do matter quite a bit. And, the accepted definition of custom, at least in this little corner of the world called Bladeforums, is the Guild's definition. Which, in essence is that the whole knife was made by one person. That's a very simple easy to work with concept. If two or more people hand craft a knife, its not considered to be a custom knife. If one man takes cnc'd parts and converts them into a knife, its custom.
There are lots of words which mean one thing in general usage and quite another in a specialized industry setting. (Ask an oilman what 'sweet' crude is, and you'd be appalled at the variance from normal usage that sweetness is, for example.) In our world, custom means what the Guild says it does. It takes nothing away from the intrinsic value of a knife to be described as production, even if handmade, but it does impart information an educated collector needs to know.
There are lots of words which mean one thing in general usage and quite another in a specialized industry setting. (Ask an oilman what 'sweet' crude is, and you'd be appalled at the variance from normal usage that sweetness is, for example.) In our world, custom means what the Guild says it does. It takes nothing away from the intrinsic value of a knife to be described as production, even if handmade, but it does impart information an educated collector needs to know.
Les Robertson
BANNED
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- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Hi Guys, The Zealot here!
Melvin, you are right I am the kid that always asked why. There are too many people who are happy with the status quo. These are the people who say (when asked why they are doing the task that way) they respond "because that is the way we have always done it. Funny thing is, when we run into one of those people we HATE them.
Melvin, they do this because it is easier than looking for a new and possibly better way of doing things. Remember it is always easier to pull people down to an inferior level than it is to raise them to a superior level.
Oddly enough many of the custom knife makers out there are knife makers because they were not happy with the Status Quo.
This is the very reason that AG and others started the Guild was to show people that there was/is a difference as to the way the knives are made by the members of this organization.
When I first started selling knives, the second question after price I almost always was asked was "are they a Guild Member?"
Obviously since so many people asked this question it must be important to be a member. Consequently, I went out of my way to seek out members of the Guild. Additionally, I got a copy of their guidelines to educate myself as to what I should be looking for in a custom knife.
At that time, being a member of the Guild ment something. Voting status in the Guild was highly prized among both makers and their collectors.
However, I will admit that the Guild is not the force it once was. It has become more of a "club" than the potent body for educating knife buyers that it once was.
The fact that AG, a Charter Member of the Guild and it's Honorary President is not sufficiently knowledgeable to discuss the Guild Guidelines, without the help of his mis-laid copy of said guildelines, may be part of the problem.
This coupled with the fact this information could easily be obtained at:
www.knifemakersguild.com
may be even may be even more troubling. Although to his credit he did get me to post the Guild's URL for all to read.
Melvin, I am not down on Randall's I suspect that I have owned more of them than most people participating in this. However, as a collector when I found out how they were built, I sold them all.
Yes, Melvin it is important that there are those who will defend their position. Will I defend my position at any cost? No. I am always looking for accuracy and the truth. Remember I am one of those people AG calls a "Stickler". You have to give me credit, I take the same stance every time. No fence walking here.
Melvin, I have held my position on this topic since the inception of BF. I have to say, fewer and fewer people are joining in to take their shot at me. So this indicates to me that at least some people "get it". At the end of the day, that is the best you can hope for.
Well guys, I have waded again into ths "is/is not" arguement that seems to rear it's head every 4-6 months. So I will now bow out and save all of this information so around November when it comes up again, Ill be able to refresh my memory as to what has been said. Thus allowing me to just cut and past from previous posts
Melvin, one last thing. Imagine how this thread would go if I said that I agree with those here and that I do consider Randall Knives custom knives. How many people would then be using my name when people told them that Randall's were not custom knives. You would hear comments like "even Les Robertson says they are custom knives".
Guys, buy what you like, but know what you are buying!
Melvin, you are right I am the kid that always asked why. There are too many people who are happy with the status quo. These are the people who say (when asked why they are doing the task that way) they respond "because that is the way we have always done it. Funny thing is, when we run into one of those people we HATE them.
Melvin, they do this because it is easier than looking for a new and possibly better way of doing things. Remember it is always easier to pull people down to an inferior level than it is to raise them to a superior level.
Oddly enough many of the custom knife makers out there are knife makers because they were not happy with the Status Quo.
This is the very reason that AG and others started the Guild was to show people that there was/is a difference as to the way the knives are made by the members of this organization.
When I first started selling knives, the second question after price I almost always was asked was "are they a Guild Member?"
Obviously since so many people asked this question it must be important to be a member. Consequently, I went out of my way to seek out members of the Guild. Additionally, I got a copy of their guidelines to educate myself as to what I should be looking for in a custom knife.
At that time, being a member of the Guild ment something. Voting status in the Guild was highly prized among both makers and their collectors.
However, I will admit that the Guild is not the force it once was. It has become more of a "club" than the potent body for educating knife buyers that it once was.
The fact that AG, a Charter Member of the Guild and it's Honorary President is not sufficiently knowledgeable to discuss the Guild Guidelines, without the help of his mis-laid copy of said guildelines, may be part of the problem.
This coupled with the fact this information could easily be obtained at:
www.knifemakersguild.com
may be even may be even more troubling. Although to his credit he did get me to post the Guild's URL for all to read.
Melvin, I am not down on Randall's I suspect that I have owned more of them than most people participating in this. However, as a collector when I found out how they were built, I sold them all.
Yes, Melvin it is important that there are those who will defend their position. Will I defend my position at any cost? No. I am always looking for accuracy and the truth. Remember I am one of those people AG calls a "Stickler". You have to give me credit, I take the same stance every time. No fence walking here.
Melvin, I have held my position on this topic since the inception of BF. I have to say, fewer and fewer people are joining in to take their shot at me. So this indicates to me that at least some people "get it". At the end of the day, that is the best you can hope for.
Well guys, I have waded again into ths "is/is not" arguement that seems to rear it's head every 4-6 months. So I will now bow out and save all of this information so around November when it comes up again, Ill be able to refresh my memory as to what has been said. Thus allowing me to just cut and past from previous posts
Melvin, one last thing. Imagine how this thread would go if I said that I agree with those here and that I do consider Randall Knives custom knives. How many people would then be using my name when people told them that Randall's were not custom knives. You would hear comments like "even Les Robertson says they are custom knives".
Guys, buy what you like, but know what you are buying!
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2001
- Messages
- 18,959
Les,
Thanks for the clarification. I'm sorry if you felt I was taking shots at ya there big fella, that wasn't my intent...(I know, I know, the road to hell and all that...lol).
I understand how you've come to take the stance you have with regards to what qualifies as a "Custom" knife, and though I disagree with your position, I respect your stanch support for it.
Your candor, professionalism, unwavering commitment, and firm conviction can be a source of inspiration for us all, even if you're completely off the mark.
And although we can agree to disagree on this minor issue, I'm quite sure that there are many other issues that we'd be in full agreement on.
"ZealotsRUs"
Mel
Thanks for the clarification. I'm sorry if you felt I was taking shots at ya there big fella, that wasn't my intent...(I know, I know, the road to hell and all that...lol).
I understand how you've come to take the stance you have with regards to what qualifies as a "Custom" knife, and though I disagree with your position, I respect your stanch support for it.
Your candor, professionalism, unwavering commitment, and firm conviction can be a source of inspiration for us all, even if you're completely off the mark.
And although we can agree to disagree on this minor issue, I'm quite sure that there are many other issues that we'd be in full agreement on.
"ZealotsRUs"
Mel
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2001
- Messages
- 2,033
Bravo: You miss the point, No where does the Guild define "Custom" If you mean hand-made then you are telling me that Loveless knives are not handmade because they are made by a partnership, that the last knives Barry Wood made are not hand made because his son-in-law was his partner, that Dozier knives are not hand made because his step-son Daniel works with him. You are kidding, right?
A. G.
stjames
Sebenzanista
- Joined
- Oct 26, 1998
- Messages
- 6,465
All the guidelines posted by the Guild on their website apply to individuals, not objects. They are the guidelines defining who is and is not eligible for membership in the Guild at different levels.
It seems that many are trying to apply the requirements on a person to obtain probationary and voting membership in the organization to the knives themselves. Thus, only a knife made by someone using the described techniques and methods qualify as a custom made knife.
This might seem logical, but suffers from a fatal flaw; Nowhere in the bylaws does the word custom appear. The only technical requirements and or limitations specified is the oft-quoted Article 2, Section 1, Paragraph 2, one of the requirements to obtain Probationary Membership: Must be engaged in the making of benchmade knives for sale to the public, including the grinding and/or forging his own knives.
The name of the organization is The Knifemakers Guild, not The Custom Knifemakers Guild.
It seems that many are trying to apply the requirements on a person to obtain probationary and voting membership in the organization to the knives themselves. Thus, only a knife made by someone using the described techniques and methods qualify as a custom made knife.
This might seem logical, but suffers from a fatal flaw; Nowhere in the bylaws does the word custom appear. The only technical requirements and or limitations specified is the oft-quoted Article 2, Section 1, Paragraph 2, one of the requirements to obtain Probationary Membership: Must be engaged in the making of benchmade knives for sale to the public, including the grinding and/or forging his own knives.
The name of the organization is The Knifemakers Guild, not The Custom Knifemakers Guild.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 1999
- Messages
- 2,959
This is the point that made me edit out my second post. (Before anyone had a chance to read or respond to it.)
I went and looked at the KMG guidelines and could find NO mention of "Custom" in there. I decided to delete the post until I could CAREFULLY re-read the whole site, and yet I come to the same conclusion as A.G.
Basically, the Guild's requirements are no requirements at all! They're almost totally arbitrary.
Under the ByLaws of the Guild;
As long as a Maker either forges or grinds his own blade, technically, he can farm out EVERY other aspect of the job, and as long as he does not take credit for work he has not done, he's in like FLYNN!
Under these rules, the guy at Randall's that forges the blade should be FULLY entitled to join the Guild.
Whether this is how things were intended is open to debate, but the fact remains, that this is what the ByLaws CLEARLY state, and if the Guild chose to fight it, they'd be facing a losing Court Battle.
Les,
I admire your tenacity, and I believe you are very sincere in your efforts to keep things clear, but I disagree with you. That in itself, is no big deal and you could happily ignore my opinion for as long as you liked.
Unfortunately, The Dictionary disagrees with you and so does the Guild ByLaws.
I quote KMG ByLaws;
<b>(1) Voting Members
c. Shall not take credit for work which he did not do. Knives offered for sale must be made by the maker or specified otherwise.
(2) Probationary Members
2. Must be engaged in the making of benchmade knives for sale to the public, including the grinding and/or forging his own knives. </b>
Nowhere within those ByLaws is there offered a definition of what a "benchmade" knife is, nor is there any mention of "Custom" knives at all.
Believe as you like Les, but it doesn't serve your point of view to reference the Guild Guidlines, they're useless for any purpose other than being so vague that they can be interpreted however the "Powers That Be" may wish to interpret them.
not2sharp
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 20,413
James,
With all due respect to, Les and his Business, the definition of the word custom is important to all of us. For better or worse words like "tactical", "custom", "bench made", and "survival" have been imbued with a significant amount of marketing value. We, collectors and the industry, have invested real money over decades to give these adjectives their selling power. As far as I know the words are not a protected trademark, and can and have been used by virtually everyone.
Nor do these words have any real or at least relevant definition within the English Language.
Tactical, is a decision making criteria not a type of equipment.
Custom, is about design not manufacturing
Bench Made, is at best suggestive.
Survival, is an action or result and has nothing to do with tools.
The language has been introduced into our Exchange Forum, to provide an added convinience to the users of that forum, and to divide the forum to reduce the rate at which posted items fell to the second page. There are no hard and fast rules for the use of any of these words and as far as I am concerned the seller should select whatever they feel is best.
Censorship on this stuff is uncalled for.
N2S
With all due respect to, Les and his Business, the definition of the word custom is important to all of us. For better or worse words like "tactical", "custom", "bench made", and "survival" have been imbued with a significant amount of marketing value. We, collectors and the industry, have invested real money over decades to give these adjectives their selling power. As far as I know the words are not a protected trademark, and can and have been used by virtually everyone.
Nor do these words have any real or at least relevant definition within the English Language.
Tactical, is a decision making criteria not a type of equipment.
Custom, is about design not manufacturing
Bench Made, is at best suggestive.
Survival, is an action or result and has nothing to do with tools.
The language has been introduced into our Exchange Forum, to provide an added convinience to the users of that forum, and to divide the forum to reduce the rate at which posted items fell to the second page. There are no hard and fast rules for the use of any of these words and as far as I am concerned the seller should select whatever they feel is best.
Censorship on this stuff is uncalled for.
N2S
stjames
Sebenzanista
- Joined
- Oct 26, 1998
- Messages
- 6,465
I agree wholeheartedly. But the level of importance varies greatly. For myself, whether a given knife is considered to be custom made or not is of little importance and has almost no impact on my life.
But as Mr. Robertson has pointed out, how a knife is made and what it can be considered is of significant importance to his business and thus his livelihood and ability to provide for himself and family. In a very real way, the lives of those he holds dear are tied to the custom knife market. The exact same holds true of Mr. Russell, only his connection is to a much larger portion of the knife industry. Their zealousness should surprise no one.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2001
- Messages
- 18,959
Guys,
I see now that I wasn't completely off the mark with my initial concerns, and for that I'm truly thankful.
My desire wasn't to cause dissent here at BFC, it was only to shed light on an ambiguity that I was personally uncomfortable with.
That ambiguity being, I felt that certain individual's were making a blanket proclamation that ran contrary to my understanding of a commonly used term; and in the making and support of such a proclamation, stood to receive unfair financial reward and recognition within the knife resell community.
Specifically, I felt that for a certain individual, or group of individuals, to arbitrarily define that what constituted an allowable posting, and via that definition determine the meaning of that what they had a vested financial interest in, was IMHO particularly disingeneous.
In other words, if I had a business tailored to a certain market segment, and if I could, via my position in that market community, determine what was allowable for viewing; I would have an unfair advantage with regards to maintaining market value.
Now this position, in and of itself, is not necessarily wrong; but to expound this position to the detriment of others most certainly is.
As I said in an earlier post, I felt that if black and/or white is an inch wide, then gray is probably a foot wide....and this thread pretty much confirms my initial premise.
I think we all know what a "Production" knife is, what a "Handmade" knife is, an apprentice made, benchmade, shopmade, handmade, semi-custom, etc.
I also think that we know what a "Custom" knife is....a knife that is unique, a "one of", or made to a customer's specification....all arbitrary definitions aside.
Furthermore, I continue to support the position that whereas many Randall Made Knives, specifically the standard catalog models, are "Handmade" knives, (for which there is no current category listing here at BFC); some, those made to a customer's specifications, are truly "Custom" knives, and as such should NOT be listed as "Production" knives....
Mel
I see now that I wasn't completely off the mark with my initial concerns, and for that I'm truly thankful.
My desire wasn't to cause dissent here at BFC, it was only to shed light on an ambiguity that I was personally uncomfortable with.
That ambiguity being, I felt that certain individual's were making a blanket proclamation that ran contrary to my understanding of a commonly used term; and in the making and support of such a proclamation, stood to receive unfair financial reward and recognition within the knife resell community.
Specifically, I felt that for a certain individual, or group of individuals, to arbitrarily define that what constituted an allowable posting, and via that definition determine the meaning of that what they had a vested financial interest in, was IMHO particularly disingeneous.
In other words, if I had a business tailored to a certain market segment, and if I could, via my position in that market community, determine what was allowable for viewing; I would have an unfair advantage with regards to maintaining market value.
Now this position, in and of itself, is not necessarily wrong; but to expound this position to the detriment of others most certainly is.
As I said in an earlier post, I felt that if black and/or white is an inch wide, then gray is probably a foot wide....and this thread pretty much confirms my initial premise.
I think we all know what a "Production" knife is, what a "Handmade" knife is, an apprentice made, benchmade, shopmade, handmade, semi-custom, etc.
I also think that we know what a "Custom" knife is....a knife that is unique, a "one of", or made to a customer's specification....all arbitrary definitions aside.
Furthermore, I continue to support the position that whereas many Randall Made Knives, specifically the standard catalog models, are "Handmade" knives, (for which there is no current category listing here at BFC); some, those made to a customer's specifications, are truly "Custom" knives, and as such should NOT be listed as "Production" knives....
Mel
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2001
- Messages
- 2,033
Les:
I am sorry, I cannot possibly answer your entire post in one so I will take it one
piece at a time. It seems that your knowledge of the Guild is as sparse as your
knowledge of Randall
There is no such thing as a Charter Member, there is nothing called "Guidelines"
If you have now read the By-Laws and other information that is posted on the
Guild Site you would know that.
Instead of being snotty about me, why not keep this civil? I did my best to
avoid embarrassing you, that is why I "mislaid my guidelines". If you treat
everyone who has a different opinion than you do, in such shoddy fashion you
will soon lose your position as the "Most Knowledgeable Knife Dealer on The
Internet"
In your haste to reduce my stature you have only exposed your own lack of
claimed knowledge. If indeed you have "guidelines" not available to the rest of
us, please, reveal them.
A. G.