PLEASE try this new strop!!!

Zeasor,

This is an aside to the issue of concerning paper honing.

In our print shop I have built up a pretty good size machine shop over the past several years. One of the items I use quite a bit is a Delta 1 x 42 belt sander. I also have one in our shop here at home.
I sharpen knives on this using a number of different belts and also have a leather strop belt I used with honing compound. (one reason I use this is speed)

My thought is this; when I get time I am going to take a used belt and glue some cast coated stock (a super lustrous, shiny, almost mirror like coated stock) to it and see if it will work on this machine. Because it moves fast I will have to use a very light touch to get results if they are available this way.

Provided I have time, sharpening helps me concentrate and relax when I get stressed.
Sharpening has always done this for me, whether I use a stone or diamond plate or belt grinder.


As always, I’ll try to keep all my digits intact.
 
Stormwatch24 said:
...My thought is this; when I get time I am going to take a used belt and glue some cast coated stock (a super lustrous, shiny, almost mirror like coated stock) to it and see if it will work on this machine. Because it moves fast I will have to use a very light touch to get results if they are available this way...
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Please let us know the results. Does "cast coated stock" have an abrasive effect?

Use some STRONG glue lest you get a cast coated slap in face. :)
 
Zeasor,

I have not tried cast coated stock for this yet. The stock is kaolin coated like other coated papers but has a hard super gloss finish which is results from the final finishing this stock is processed with.
As far as the glue, this is something I have been thinking of. It has to hold tight, be flexible and not get stressed and separate under heat of running.
I may get slapped in the process yet.
 
Stormwatch24 said:
...As far as the glue, this is something I have been thinking of. It has to hold tight, be flexible and not get stressed and separate under heat of running.
I may get slapped in the process yet.
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Eureka! I've got it. Make a belt using duct tape, sticky side out. Then apply the paper. Duct tape fixes everything. CAUTION: do not run the duct tape belt without the paper applied. If the belt breaks with the sticky exposed, you could be wrapped up like a mummy before you could blink. :D:D:D
 
Stormwatch24 said:
...I have a few notes for you about your comments and questions...
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Stormwatch24--- Another hearty THANK YOU for all the info. Your "white paper" is most interesting and helpful. Let's keep knocking this around.

Stormwatch24 said:
...If you’re a Scout, Scout leader, parent of a Scout or have fond memories...
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I'm a big fan of the Boy Scouts. Many fond memories from my scouting days. Our scoutmaster was a probation officer for juveniles. He knew kids and made scouting a terrific experience.

Stormwatch24 said:
...Finally one last note for full disclosure. Kaolin clays, which much of this subject centers around, may contain trace amounts of radioactive thorium or uranium....
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Strop like crazy and you could have a nuclear knife that glows in the dark. A light saber??? This goes way beyond tinkering. I think we are going to need a new forum for this. :D
 
Zeasor,

I was talking to one of our pressmen today about this and he mentioned about seeing his father use coated paper years ago when he worked in our shop.
He was 173rd Abn in the 60's and had all sorts of improvisational skills as I remember. He mentioned this about cutting corrugated board and boxes.
It's not the paper so much that dulls the edge, it's the hardened glue thats used to bind the flat face sheets to the core that gets to the edge.
Back in the early 70's when he was a pressman, it wasn't unusual to have to open and cut down 10 to 30 cartons that large sheeted paper stock came in. He would backstroke the edge against the smooth surface to "open the edge up" as he put it. Just figuring in my head it would be about a minimum of 120 inches of stroke per carton. This would distinguish a good sharp blade from any other. He'd periodically make a few stokes to do this.
He mentioned my use of folded cardboard to clean the inside of folding knives to scrape and burnish. I hadn't thought about that untill he mentioned it.
These are rather abrasive though not even white.
Just an afterthought.
 
Wanted to do a brief update after having a good chance to work with an edge produced using this cool stropping discovery of Z's ...

So about a month ago, I took a very familiar VG-10 Caly Jr., gave it a fresh edge, and brought it to blazing sharp perfection (well, relative to my abilities at least :) ) with my trusty phone book strop. These edges continue to amaze me, push cutting newsprint at absolutely obscene levels, and actually being a bit more of a challenge to whittle hair with than lesser edges, it seems.

Of course this isn't any kind of systematic, controlled testing, but it's very apparent over the weeks of using this as my general EDC that this clay-coat paper stropping makes a noticeable improvement in edge retention. This is actually something I've been curious about for some time, and I'm now convinced that a very high level of polish makes a big difference ... I imagine the mechanism involved is simply that the smoother edge at the very apex is stronger, with fewer and finer tiny scatches and ridges that will lead to the edge getting torn away.

So IMO given what little time and skill it takes to strop an edge this way, it's well worth it. My vote for "Best Sharpening Trick of 2008".

Also, I'm starting to see some gray streaks on the phone book where I strop, which I'm certain is metal being removed. Takes awhile before the buildup becomes apparent, but it's definitely doing what we want it to.
 
This has got to be one of the most interesting and informative threads, perfect for me because I've just become addicted to convex blades, and my Gossman PSK Jr. and Bark River Fox River just became even more insanely sharp using this method.

Thanks everyone for the info!!!
 
Dog of War said:
Wanted to do a brief update after having a good chance to work with an edge produced using this cool stropping discovery of Z's ...

So about a month ago, I took a very familiar VG-10 Caly Jr., gave it a fresh edge, and brought it to blazing sharp perfection (well, relative to my abilities at least :) ) with my trusty phone book strop...
Click to expand...

Thanks for update. It's good to know others are getting "sharp" results.

When you sharpened your Caly Jr., what was the last sharpening stone, compound, etc. you used before paper stropping it? How fine did you progress before stropping?
 
Brian Jones said:
This has got to be one of the most interesting and informative threads, perfect for me because I've just become addicted to convex blades, and my Gossman PSK Jr. and Bark River Fox River just became even more insanely sharp using this method.

Thanks everyone for the info!!!
Click to expand...
I know Mike Stewart and many of the guys on the BRKT forum on that, uh, other knife site ;) are into stropping on cardboard ... betcha they'll love this trick. One of the first blades I tried this on was an A2 Barkie, and of course it got amazingly sharp.

So, we know this works on recurves, on V-grinds and convexes ... costs nothing, doesn't require a lot of stropping skill (I'm proof of that) and so far seems almost impossible to dull an edge like can happen with a leather strop. What's not to like? :)

bearthedog said:
Any pictures of what it should look like?
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Hi, Bear. If you're asking about Zeasor's original thing of using it on a recurve blade, I haven't done that myself, but I gather you just roll the paper into a tube of almost any diameter. With non-recurved blades, it's practically like the way you'd wipe oil or something off your knife, just pull the knife spine first across the paper, elevated so that it's "wiping" the edge bevel. You don't even have to control the angle or pressure all that carefully.

Zeasor said:
When you sharpened your Caly Jr., what was the last sharpening stone, compound, etc. you used before paper stropping it? How fine did you progress before stropping?
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The edge wasn't seriously dull, so I did the 12 degree/side primary bevel on Spyderco medium ceramic (~800 grit) then applied a 17 deg/side microbevel on a fine ceramic CrockStick v-sharpener, about 1200 grit. Went directly to the "Z-strop" from there. This is a real boon for basically lazy sharpeners like me. :D
 
Dog of War said:
Also, I'm starting to see some gray streaks on the phone book where I strop, which I'm certain is metal being removed. Takes awhile before the buildup becomes apparent, but it's definitely doing what we want it to.
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Are you stropping on the pages, or on the glossy cover?
 
Yo, sodak! Stropping right on the cover of the local phone book (big ad for some ambulance chaser on mine.) As I understand it -- Stormwatch, correct me if I'm mistaken -- almost any shiny, heavy paper or light cardboard stock that's made to have something printed on it has a clay coating which, being mostly silica compound ... well, you get the idea.

With your considerable expertise in these matters, I'm sure we'd all like to hear what you think if you decide to give it a try. I honestly don't see myself messing around with leather and compounds again.
 
Yo Dawg! :D Thanks, I'll definitely give it a try! Always on the lookout for something new and improved, even better when it's something common laying around!

Zeasor, thanks! I must have missed that, I thought I saw something about the glossy pages in a newspaper, but I've been sleep deprived lately... I'll go over the whole thread again in the morning with coffee. I heartily agree with Brian, this is a GREAT thread! Thanks to all!
 
I'd like to use this technique to sharpen my Gossman PSK (not recurved, but convexed), but I don't get it. I've read over the thread many times but it just doesn't click. I tried making that tear drop shape with clay coated paper, but I don't get what to do with it. Everyone seems to like this technique very much and it's pretty much free to do, so I'd like to give it a shot. Can somebody please take step-by-step pictures with instructions?
 
MRpink said:
I'd like to use this technique to sharpen my Gossman PSK (not recurved, but convexed), but I don't get it. I've read over the thread many times but it just doesn't click. I tried making that tear drop shape with clay coated paper, but I don't get what to do with it. Everyone seems to like this technique very much and it's pretty much free to do, so I'd like to give it a shot. Can somebody please take step-by-step pictures with instructions?
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There is nothing to gain with a tube or teardrop if you don't have a recurved blade. Just use the phone book or paper "flat".
 
MRpink said:
...I tried making that tear drop shape with clay coated paper, but I don't get what to do with it.
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You use the tube as a strop, stroking the blade from one end of the tube to the other. The tear-drop shape allows the radius of the tube to flex somewhat, conforming to the blade. This tear-drop configuration only works if the paper is of sufficient weight (body), such as a phonebook cover. As oli said, this is best suited for concaved curved blades. If the tube still confounds you, forget it. Simply wrap the clay-coated paper around a dowel or PVC tubing and use it like a stropping rod. Otherwise, use the paper on a flat surface (over a mouse pad for covexing). Others have reported good results for a slight convex edge by simply stropping on a phone book.
 
I've been stropping on news print for years. Accidently stumbled upon it when I didn't have a strop handy. Been trying all types of paper/cardboard since then. Just like there different stones, papers and cardboard are also different. Surely there may be a method to categorize but I'm very simplistic and use paper based on texture and feel.
 
vince4363 said:
I've been stropping on news print for years. Accidently stumbled upon it when I didn't have a strop handy. Been trying all types of paper/cardboard since then. Just like there different stones, papers and cardboard are also different. Surely there may be a method to categorize but I'm very simplistic and use paper based on texture and feel.
Click to expand...
You bumped a 1year old thread...
 
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