PM2 Compresssion Lock vs the Cold Steel Holdout 2 Triad Lock

Voyagers never had steel liners. Lock strength matters to Spyderco just as much as CS. If lock strength wasn't a goal then Spyderco amp other brands wouldn't be investing R&D into new and stronger locks. If you are personally upset your favorite brand is subject to these tests, maybe get some thicker skin. They're just tools after all.
 
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Good thing Spyderco didn't claim that the compression lock turns the ParaMilitary 2 into a virtual fixed blade.
 
It's been a long time since high school physics, but that spine whack test is using centrifugal force. So while there may be 30 pounds of weights on the bar, the force upon impact is much more than 30 lbs. Isn't that right?

Can someone with with more smarts than me calculate what that actual force would be? Or am I totally wrong?
 
JWheel said:
It's been a long time since high school physics, but that spine whack test is using centrifugal force. So while there may be 30 pounds of weights on the bar, the force upon impact is much more than 30 lbs. Isn't that right?

Can someone with with more smarts than me calculate what that actual force would be? Or am I totally wrong?
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I think you are right. Isn't it mass×speed=force or something along those lines?
 
wesmanthetiger said:
So many angry posters. Cold steel claims they have the strongest lock. They tested it and came out on top. They didn't claim it was a better knife, just a better lock. That's how they market their knives. If lock strength doesn't matter to you then cool, quit whining and keep buying your benchmade's and Spyderco's. I will continue to buy knives from all quality manufacturers and won't get stressed out when one calls out another. It's called marketing and it's how the business world works.
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Hard to argue with this.
 
JWheel said:
It's been a long time since high school physics, but that spine whack test is using centrifugal force. So while there may be 30 pounds of weights on the bar, the force upon impact is much more than 30 lbs. Isn't that right?

Can someone with with more smarts than me calculate what that actual force would be? Or am I totally wrong?
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One of the reasons the spine whack test is a joke is the knife is bolted to the arm with 30FTLBS of torque.Unfortunately the coefficient of friction between knives of different handle materials is different...so who knows what the actual force imparted is?

A scientific test would firmly clamp the knife handle and strike the spine with a known force.Torque limiters can be employed as well as strain gauges.
The cold steel presentation looks impressive...but is hardly a good source for data.Note how some blades spin much more than others.

Ridiculous.
 
Sounds to me like Cold Steel haters. Personally, I'm a big fan of overkill. A failed lock can result in lost fingers.
With the upgrade in steel, Cold Steel makes the best folders on the planet for the money. They make the strongest
lock on the planet, period. How many of you haters have actually handled a Cold Steel folder? Sorry you paid too
much for your folder. If you like spending money, get a 4-MAX when they come out.
 
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Leftytwogunz said:
It's kind of like if they made a mini-van that was really awesome at drag racing. Then they suggested every other company's mini-vans were inferior because
they were not as good at drag racing.
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I might actually buy the worlds fastest drag racing minivan if I needed a minivan if for no other reason it would be fun to go stop light to stop light with some of those fast and furious kiddies just to see the looks on their faces when my Caravan whups em by 3 car lengths.
I see the triad more analogous to the minivan have the worlds strongest parking brake. Might be nice once in a while but on the whole I just dont care, I never really need it.
 
Leftytwogunz said:
I feel the opposite. I believe all of the CS BRO propaganda belongs in their own sub forum so they can all pat themselves on the back every time
their knife "wins" in their next in-house testing video. Testing of a design element probably not even in my top 10 features considered when buying a knife.

It's kind of like if they made a mini-van that was really awesome at drag racing. Then they suggested every other company's mini-vans were inferior because
they were not as good at drag racing.
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It's more like they took a refrigerator, made it into a drag racer, and are now calling out the other fridge companies about how slow their stuff is.

There's no possible way to respond unless you go down the rabbit hole too.
 
hermit dave said:
Sounds to me like Cold Steel haters. Personally, I'm a big fan of overkill. A failed lock can result in lost fingers.
With the upgrade in steel, Cold Steel makes the best folders on the planet for the money. They make the strongest
lock on the planet, period. How many of you haters have actually handled a Cold Steel folder? Sorry you paid too
much for your folder. If you like spending money, get a 4-MAX when they come out.
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Me, actually. I had and sold a Voyager Vaquero XL and currently have a Kudu and a Tuff Lite. I like their knives, I do. And that's why I don't feel that they need to smear the competition like they're doing.

You can promote your product without talking shit about others' products.
 
Leftytwogunz said:
It's kind of like if they made a mini-van that was really awesome at drag racing. Then they suggested every other company's mini-vans were inferior because
they were not as good at drag racing.
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Yeah, except that Spyderco claims on their website that the compression lock "provides extreme lock strength". On their Edge-U-Cation page it's the only lock mechanism that mentions lock strength at all. That leads me to believe that they feel that it's the strongest lock that they make. So, it's more like Spyderco made a mini-van and bragged about how good it was at drag racing and then Cold Steel actually tested that mini-van at a drag strip and then all of the Spyderco fanboys said "Who cares, nobody drag races mini-vans." because it turns out that the Spyderco mini-van can't break 30 miles per hour. In other words, if Spyderco is going to claim "extreme lock strength" they should be able to back it up. If they don't care about lock strength they shouldn't make the claims in the first place.

I've never owned a Spyderco or a Cold Steel, and I really have no interest in either of those companies. I do however find these tests interesting. I don't believe that they simulate real world usage, and I don't think they are intended to. They certainly never implied at any time in the video that these were strains that a knife would likely face once they were in the hands of the customers. They also never made any claim about which knife was better or which company had the better reputation or marketing. What they did was test to see what it would take to get two different locking mechanisms to fail. The compression lock didn't fair too well. I really don't care how it compares to the triad lock. I thought it was pretty obvious going in that the triad is the stronger lock. Even if they only tested the PM2 I would have been disappointed with it's performance. The main thing I take away from this is that if Spyderco tells me that a lock "provides extreme lock strength" I have to take that with a large grain of salt.
 
On huge folders, the Tri-Ad lock is great (although the PowerLock did pretty good too :) ).

On knives with blades around 4 inches, I have never had a lock failure from ANY reputable company, even when doing stupid, really, really stupid things with my knives.

Decide what your uses are, then pick the knife which suits them.
The lock will be part of that for some uses.

I'm glad the XL Espada has the Tri-Ad lock, but if I had any desire for a Recon (which I don't), the Tri-Ad lock wouldn't be a selling point for me.
 
stabman said:
On huge folders, the Tri-Ad lock is great (although the PowerLock did pretty good too :) ).

On knives with blades around 4 inches, I have never had a lock failure from ANY reputable company, even when doing stupid, really, really stupid things with my knives.

Decide what your uses are, then pick the knife which suits them.
The lock will be part of that for some uses.

I'm glad the XL Espada has the Tri-Ad lock, but if I had any desire for a Recon (which I don't), the Tri-Ad lock wouldn't be a selling point for me.
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Stabman, I like your measured response.

So the compression lock fails at a certain weight and the triad lock holds. Okay. Great. The triad is stronger. I'd bet there are other locks (the classic back lock for example) that are stronger than the compression too. However, I don't think I'm ever going to put that kind of weight on the spine of a knife like this. MAYBE I would put some real pressure on a sturdy fixed blade. But folders fail at some point. Don't put a scary amount of pressure on a folder and there's nothing to worry about.

And just out of curiosity ... does anyone know anyone who's lost a finger due to a failing locking mechanism? How big a problem is this really?
 
When you are doing full force stabs into a human body where there's bone that you can hit at odd angles, the strongest lock that exists is a comfort.

There! That needed to be said, IMHO.

That being said, I'm sure a few people will scream "fixed blade".

That argument is often trotted out when folder strength is discussed. People say that folders will never be "virtual fixed blades" and I agree.

What's funny about that is that when somebody comes out with a strong lock, the same people that always scream "fixed blade" are the ones who immediately scream "strong locks don't matter to me".
 
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singularity35 said:
When you are doing full force stabs into a human body where there's bone that you can hit at odd angles, the strongest lock that exists is a comfort.

There! That needed to be said, IMHO.

That being said, I'm sure a few people will scream "fixed blade".

That argument is often trotted out when folder strength is discussed. People say that folders will never be "virtual fixed blades" and I agree.

What's funny about that is that when somebody comes out with a strong lock, the same people that always scream "fixed blade" are the ones who immediately scream "strong locks don't matter to me".
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Not to mention that between a folder and a fixed blade with the same blade length, the fixed will have a carry package that's much bulkier, heavier, larger, and less convenient.
 
singularity35 said:
When you are doing full force stabs into a human body where there's bone that you can hit at odd angles, the strongest lock that exists is a comfort.

There! That needed to be said, IMHO.

That being said, I'm sure a few people will scream "fixed blade".

That argument is often trotted out when folder strength is discussed. People say that folders will never be "virtual fixed blades" and I agree.

What's funny about that is that when somebody comes out with a strong lock, the same people that always scream "fixed blade" are the ones who immediately scream "strong locks don't matter to me".
Click to expand...

For me, that's because I've never once considers the need to stab full force into the human body. Given, there are professions where that might be a consideration, just not mine. And also, I don't see the need to stab... Well, just about anything. So all those saying "my liner lock almost closed when I stabbed a tree", my first thought was "why did you need to stab a tree", not "man, you probably need a stronger lock".

And while lock strength doesn't matter to me for edc tasks, there are things I want a strong blade for, and for those, I use a fixed blade. For me, all of those tasks are outdoors/camping related. That's why when I camp, I rarely bring a folder, and instead use fixed blades (for chopping, battoning, using the spine to scrape, occasionally drilling, etc).

So yes. Lock strength doesn't matter to me, because when I use a folder, I treat it as such (where no matter the design, they're is always the potential it could close). And for tasks that I envision the need for something stronger, I use fixed blade.
 
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