PM2 or wait longer and buy a Sebenza?

RemyKaze said:
I don't get the hype behind the Seb after handling it.
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RemyKaze said:
Buying it to use? Then no. The performance is not 3-4 times better at 3-4 times the price.
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So after admitting you've only handled one, you can actually say that buying one to use isn't worth the money? How do you know the performance isn't up to the price? The simple answer is you have no clue.

The "lock is outdated"... *Gasp!* Someone needs to tell the vast majority of knifemakers out there what you think!
 
I absolutely LOVE the compression lock of the PM2. I've had many, and collected the various super-steels for a while. I have also had quite a few Sebenzas. I carry a large Sebbie; the "small" is too small for my hand. IMO, there is no folder that is more smooth to operate.
I have a "Regular" Sebenza in my pocket now. The Sebenza is "the standard" by which folder manufacturing excellence is judged. Buy one "as-new" or "slightly used" from the Exchange, and if you don't like it, resell it for what you paid. It is well worth every penny. It will last you a lifetime, although you may want more than one.
Both of these models are excellent; you won't want to settle for just one.
 
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SPXTrader said:
So after admitting you've only handled one, you can actually say that buying one to use isn't worth the money? How do you know the performance isn't up to the price? The simple answer is you have no clue.

The "lock is outdated"... *Gasp!* Someone needs to tell the vast majority of knifemakers out there what you think!
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I don't think you have to get snarky and make assumptions, man. :) By handled, I mean I have held and used one. I didn't know that I had to spell out my entire experience to avoid being flamed. I never judge a knife simply by holding it, but you didn't ask. That's ok.

As to the outdated lock, I'm sure the makers all know. It is the most advanced readily available lock. It wasn't picked because it was the best, but because it was the best lock that they did not have to create themselves. And framelocks do look pretty elegant, which adds to the look of certain knives. That doesn't mean it is the most up to date lock.

On the subject of performance, that steel and that grind will not perform 300-400% better than full flat grind S30V. I am not claiming it will or will not perform better than the PM2; I am saying the improvement is not going to reach the aforementioned levels. Not even with the newest supersteels. If you have evidence to the contrary, I will buy a Sebenza for you.

I am sorry that I provoked such a seemingly hostile response. It was not my intention, but everyone is indeed entitled to their opinion, including both you and I.
 
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RemyKaze said:
I don't think you have to get snarky and make assumptions, man. :) By handled, I mean I have held and used one. I didn't know that I had to spell out my entire experience to avoid being flamed. I never judge a knife simply by holding it, but you didn't ask. That's ok.

As to the outdated lock, I'm sure the makers all know. It is the most advanced readily available lock. It wasn't picked because it was the best, but because it was the best lock that they did not have to create themselves. And framelocks do look pretty elegant, which adds to the look of certain knives. That doesn't mean it is the most up to date lock.

I am sorry that I provoked such a seemingly hostile response. It was not my intention, but everyone is indeed entitled to their opinion, including both you and I.
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No one is getting "snarky". You now say you've not only held one, but you've used one. How long did you carry it? Weeks? Months? Years like I have? Or did you slice up a piece of paper before you had to give it back?

As for your equation of the frame lock and what's "up to date", the 1911 style firearm still reigns supreme. Know what the "1911" stands for? The year John Browning got the patent for his sidearm. Time proves winners and losers.

But you and I have no problems. Every side to a story needs to be told, so those involved know as much as they can.
 
In my opinion the best lock out there is still a full tang fixed blade. The frame lock on the CRK line is still very durable. I did get some crap in the lock on my Insingo, but it is still a good lock. I dropped mine in a parking lot and it is still good.
 
SPXTrader said:
No one is getting "snarky". You now say you've not only held one, but you've used one. How long did you carry it? Weeks? Months? Years like I have? Or did you slice up a piece of paper before you had to give it back?

As for your equation of the frame lock and what's "up to date", the 1911 style firearm still reigns supreme. Know what the "1911" stands for? The year John Browning got the patent for his sidearm. Time proves winners and losers.

But you and I have no problems. Every side to a story needs to be told, so those involved know as much as they can.
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Right on. As I said I'm biased, but they catch my eye too. I like well done simplicity. I guess I'm waiting to see a newer steel before I dip into CRKs of my own. In the meantime, I love compression and axis locks, and I've been in a similar position as cards94. The ability to buy more expensive knives easily enough, but not so easily that we don't have to justify it beforehand. Sorry if I rocked the boat in any way.
 
RemyKaze said:
Right on. As I said I'm biased, but they catch my eye too. I like well done simplicity. I guess I'm waiting to see a newer steel before I dip into CRKs of my own. In the meantime, I love compression and axis locks, and I've been in a similar position as cards94. The ability to buy more expensive knives easily enough, but not so easily that we don't have to justify it beforehand. Sorry if I rocked the boat in any way.
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No problems my friend, and you didn't rock the boat. As I mentioned to Cards, take a look at AG's Acies 2. AG admits he took the best of the current line of makers...Ti, Hinderer lock stop, ZDP-189 (you'll be hard pressed to find this in a Ti folder), deep carry clip...the knife has it all as AG intended.
 
I'll agree with whoever said try and handle the seb first before choosing which to purchase, the unique 'hydraulic' feel is not for everyone.

It's admittedly a great knife but doesn't click with everyone, I'd take a Spyderco Military over a seb most days.
(Yes, I've owned one and used it extensively)
 
SPXTrader said:
No problems my friend, and you didn't rock the boat. As I mentioned to Cards, take a look at AG's Acies 2. AG admits he took the best of the current line of makers...Ti, Hinderer lock stop, ZDP-189 (you'll be hard pressed to find this in a Ti folder), deep carry clip...the knife has it all as AG intended.
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I didn't see the ZDP-189 part.
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If you're talking strictly cutting performance then no, the Sebenza is not 3x the knife the PM2 is and I love my CRK's, in fact the reality is after about $150 you are in the realm of diminishing returns in strictly cutting performance. You're paying for fit and finish, materials cost, consistency, reputation, rarity, etc. The PM2 and Manix 2 are IMO some of the best deals out there for price/performance/ergonomics. Spyderco has really nailed some nice designs as of late.

That said the PM2 has it's own advantages, it's lighter, great blade shape, and metal handles suck in the heat/cold/wet. I personally prefer the compression lock to any liner/frame lock. I honestly don't understand why custom makers/companies keep using it so much except that they don't want to pay for to use improved licensed lock designs. However, a well executed liner/frame will not fail on you under reasonable use. The other deal killer for me with a stock Sebenza is the single thumb stud, any knife I can't open easily with either hand is unacceptable. You can order it with a double stud or get the 25. The biggest complaint I have about my Umnumzaan is the clip side thumb stud is basically useless for blade deployment.

The Sebenza has a fit and finish and feel that has to be experienced to be appreciated, and even then it may not be worth the extra price to some, to others it's more than worth it.
 
I would split the difference and get a Spyderco Military.

The PM2 is a good size and comfortable in use but the lock is not for me. The way the blade often rebounds/bounces back out of the handle when one-hand closing kills it for me. On the other hand, I feel that the Sebenza is overpriced. The Sebenza is a good knife but for the price, I want a less soft steel/ht. Despite what some may claim, it is a knife for enthusiasts and people who know how to use and sharpen knives, after all. I moved mine on after a half year for a $100 loss.

The Spyderco Military splits their differences perfectly for me. Lightweight, ffg, easily attainable, good standard steel, and the liner lock is basically identical in use to the frame lock. Both USA made. I have many knives and the Millie stands out as one of the top designs.

Of course, this all is just personal opinion. Good luck in your decision :thumbup:

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Totally understand your dilemma, because I've been there.

I came to the Spyderco camp only recently (November) and now have 6 of them. (In order of purchase, Ulize, Native Black DLC, Civilian, PM2black on black, orange Endura4, waved Matriarch2.)

I got the CRK bug earlier this year, ang got a very hard-to-find (almost impossible really) 25, then a lefty Micarta large, and last an Insingo micarta large.

I said that to say this. They are ALL awesome knives, each distinctly different. And, I really like each of them. I say get the PM2, and enjoy it while saving up for the Sebenza. But buy both, then you get to enjoy both. They are very different.

But you'll be able to afford the PM2 SOONER, so get it first. Thus, less time overall without EITHER.

Make sense?
 
Bushido said it while I was still typing but the message is the same. Get both in that order, you can't go wrong.

They both have very strong lockups, no play; get a cheapie fixed blade for when you worry the job might be too tough to subject a folder to, like batoning wood.
 
If I had to choose ONLY 1 for the rest of my life, or be marooned with, it would have to be the Sebbie. And probably the 25.

Now why did the Al Mar get thrown in? Dang it! Now I want one of those, too.

Looks like a very nice unit; good steel, good maker and good handle material. At a good price.
 
cards94 said:
i have a knife or two to carry me over for a while but is the sebenza going to do or handle more jobs than the pm2?
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I can't imagine a situation where a PM2 would fail (not counting abuse, in which case I could imagine many situations :D)
 
jmclfrsh said:
Bushido said it while I was still typing but the message is the same. Get both in that order, you can't go wrong.

They both have very strong lockups, no play; get a cheapie fixed blade for when you worry the job might be too tough to subject a folder to, like batoning wood.
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Exactly, by the time the newness of the PM2 wears off you will be half way to owning a Sebenza. :)
 
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