Poll: Requirements for the new group! New requirement added!

[KershawLynda]

So here is what I am seeing about this... if you have the time to sit and post and the money to buy the knives that are felt to be properly seen to be Kershaw (certain models, depending on cost and place of manufacture) and have spent a lot of time and effort to give a pat one another on the back about your purchases, then you could be a member.

There are no benefits to the group except to recognize the social status of simple ownership of a knife brand and to proclaim your devotion and adoration of the brand in a more exclusive way, just on your end of the playground where others that aren't exactly like you aren't welcome. So if you are on harder economic times, you can't play on the devotee's end of the playground... guess that will keep the non fanatics out.

I am a big Kershaw fan myself. Looking at the drawer with my Tyrade, JYD II combo, my Blurs, and others down to my 30 year old (literally) Whiskey Gap and DWO, I have more Kershaw knives than any single brand. They have been my trusted work knife (construction) for years and have served without failure.

I was turned off to Kershaw years ago when they started the Kershaw Mafia, and so much so that I didn't join Bladeforums. It was like the playground in middle school. Each Kershaw devotee picked out a name from their favorite Godfather movie and thought they actually became that character. I guess here, away from those that "didn't get it" they were. I know it started out as fun, but it got waayyyy out of hand. It seemed that some felt like owning a few Kershaws, being voted in with a picture of your favorite character as your avatar, you had some kind of special status. Heck, you were a "made" guy! There were behind the scenes turf wars, things were said here and in PMs that kept thing agitated until it go quite nasty for some. They fought over who had more status based on posts, amount pictures and even took it to mods, then it filtered up to Spark. That is why Spark shut them down the group entirely archived the group posts.

After a couple of years (give or take) Spark worked out something with Thomas to bring it back. And now that the subforums is doing well again, you guys feel the need to establish a more elitist group, one more time, to proclaim your loyalty and devotion to Kai. Simple high post counts and endless pictures gushing over the product isn't enough. You need a super group that all can recognize as the most serious of people when it comes to Kai. Drive away the casual users ("we do like him, but he only has 4 Kershaws, and a low post count.... that's worse than low T") and folks that are just now learning about Kershaws.

Boy does this seem familiar. I have to ask though, why don't you guys start your own website/forum? Even the guys that make my favorite barbecue pit have one. Even though they got tired of their own limited company soon enough, it is still quite popular. That way you could enforce all rules you wanted, run it your way, exclude\include anyone you wanted and decide where you wanted to go with the forum without permission. Why do you need to have a sub/sub group that delineates you from a regular user?

More importantly, have you contacted Spark to make sure he is ready to do this all over again with the Kershaw guys?

Robert

Midnight Flyer - I'm sorry that it looks like you've had a bad experience in the past, and I don't believe what you have described in your post is the intention of this group. It's your choice if you choose to participate in any group or forum, of course. But I hope you will not completely write off BF, Kershaw, or any of the members of this forum because of some collectors trying to put together a special group.

If you are not a fan of the idea, no problem. You're entitled to your opinion. You don't have to participate.

Just to be clear, nothing has been decided about this group or if it's even going to happen. People are just giving input, opinions, and ideas at this point.

 

[JuJu-]

(1.)I agree here. It's easy to think of things when they are required. We can encourage posting without making it a requirement.

(2.)I like the concept of the point system, but really REALLY don't want to have to see/hear about/deal with people fighting over a point, or who has the most.

And again, who is to say things are significant? Worth the "point"?
(Oh, I modded my blur by cleaning it alot, then sharpening it MY way. Point for me.)

Overall, I put my vote towards a required amount of posts of significance in the subforum, an overall post count, and a number of KAI products. I say 3. And those who clearly bought 3 ultra cheapies only to post a pic of them for the requirement can be spoken with and encouraged to participate accordingly.

I'm not voting, only because my vote lies in between choices. But I am very excited about the possibility of this working out, and have no problem throwing my opinion out there to help with the final decision, whatever it may be.

All valid points! I think we will have some sort of a hybrid of a lot of these ideas in the end. We do need to remember that we want to help encourage people to buy and use kai products. But do need some sort of requirements to become a member.

We are by no means wanting to become an elitist group. Just because someone might have a higher or lower number of points does not mean they are less important or looked down upon. I personally would be on the lower end of the spectrum compared to some here! We all like kershaw, Zt and shun. Just because you own one or two does not mean you like kai any less than the next person. Even if you are not a member of this group yet when it takes off, does not mean we dislike you or think you are not good enough. There is nothing wrong with showing you like something or have something in common with fellow members. This is meant to be a fun! Please help keep it that way!

 

[EagleScouter]

I like the idea about having minimum requirements to join, but I strongly caution against the points system. Stuff like that will inevitably lead to point-related pissing contests and superiority complexes. I've seen it before with post counts.

 

[kershawguy]

So here is what I am seeing about this... if you have the time to sit and post and the money to buy the knives that are felt to be properly seen to be Kershaw (certain models, depending on cost and place of manufacture) and have spent a lot of time and effort to give a pat one another on the back about your purchases, then you could be a member.

There are no benefits to the group except to recognize the social status of simple ownership of a knife brand and to proclaim your devotion and adoration of the brand in a more exclusive way, just on your end of the playground where others that aren't exactly like you aren't welcome. So if you are on harder economic times, you can't play on the devotee's end of the playground... guess that will keep the non fanatics out.

I am a big Kershaw fan myself. Looking at the drawer with my Tyrade, JYD II combo, my Blurs, and others down to my 30 year old (literally) Whiskey Gap and DWO, I have more Kershaw knives than any single brand. They have been my trusted work knife (construction) for years and have served without failure.

I was turned off to Kershaw years ago when they started the Kershaw Mafia, and so much so that I didn't join Bladeforums. It was like the playground in middle school. Each Kershaw devotee picked out a name from their favorite Godfather movie and thought they actually became that character. I guess here, away from those that "didn't get it" they were. I know it started out as fun, but it got waayyyy out of hand. It seemed that some felt like owning a few Kershaws, being voted in with a picture of your favorite character as your avatar, you had some kind of special status. Heck, you were a "made" guy! There were behind the scenes turf wars, things were said here and in PMs that kept thing agitated until it go quite nasty for some. They fought over who had more status based on posts, amount pictures and even took it to mods, then it filtered up to Spark. That is why Spark shut them down the group entirely archived the group posts.

After a couple of years (give or take) Spark worked out something with Thomas to bring it back. And now that the subforums is doing well again, you guys feel the need to establish a more elitist group, one more time, to proclaim your loyalty and devotion to Kai. Simple high post counts and endless pictures gushing over the product isn't enough. You need a super group that all can recognize as the most serious of people when it comes to Kai. Drive away the casual users ("we do like him, but he only has 4 Kershaws, and a low post count.... that's worse than low T") and folks that are just now learning about Kershaws.

Boy does this seem familiar. I have to ask though, why don't you guys start your own website/forum? Even the guys that make my favorite barbecue pit have one. Even though they got tired of their own limited company soon enough, it is still quite popular. That way you could enforce all rules you wanted, run it your way, exclude\include anyone you wanted and decide where you wanted to go with the forum without permission. Why do you need to have a sub/sub group that delineates you from a regular user?

More importantly, have you contacted Spark to make sure he is ready to do this all over again with the Kershaw guys?

Robert

First of all , since I first read this post, I have sat here for quite some time pondering the content, re reading and pondering some more. Here is what I have taken from it, first information about the Kershaw mafia and the reasons for closing the original sub-forum, I believe are not accurate. I was alive during that time and I don't recall any issues caused by the Mafia, it was for fun and still is. I however did not spend any time outside the sub forum, so if a couple of people were doing as stated, maybe I did not know about it. I also have had conversations with Thomas about that closing and I truly don't remember ever hearing anything about the Mafia. If Spark had of shut down the forum because of the mafia, would he not have asked us to remove any reference to it from our sigs ? Also would he allow his moderators to still use said signatures. Anyway I always took it as a fun thing and do not recall one negative thing happening as a result of it. That aside I spent some time considering the other things he said concerning elitism and excluding people and I have to say I agree. I think it should be a come one come all group. I would just ask that you read the post objectively and consider it thoughtfully.

 

[adnj]

Well I am all for a special group. I believe that I might qualify for some and not for others based on the listed requirements. In any event, I have a bunch of knife cases filled with ZT/Kershaw blades and will just keep a-buyin' no matter what!

I want automatic membership for just waiting patiently for my ZT0777! ;-)

 

[Crackedblade]

I see the pitfalls of the 10 point system, but I think I support it more than any other idea brought forth to date. The "ranking" system it entails is especially intriguing, but elitism is always a danger.
When it comes to the BF membership, I see most of the arguments for or against as valid, but I lean towards a free KAI club (For owners).

 

[Rival1314]

I like the point system, I voted for the low requirements because Im a new forum member and based on posts wouldnt be allowed in the group yet, based on points though.....well, I'd have alot of points

I just realized - I hit 100 posts!!! (almost all in the kershaw forum

 

[BobSig]

So here is what I am seeing about this... if you have the time to sit and post and the money to buy the knives that are felt to be properly seen to be Kershaw (certain models, depending on cost and place of manufacture) and have spent a lot of time and effort to give a pat one another on the back about your purchases, then you could be a member.

There are no benefits to the group except to recognize the social status of simple ownership of a knife brand and to proclaim your devotion and adoration of the brand in a more exclusive way, just on your end of the playground where others that aren't exactly like you aren't welcome. So if you are on harder economic times, you can't play on the devotee's end of the playground... guess that will keep the non fanatics out.

Everyone is always welcomes here, the more the merrier! As you can see by our proposal we are asking for every ones input, we want it fair, fun and accessible by all. It might takes a few people some work or time. At the moment I couldnt join the Beckerheads, Im fine with that. If I wanted to join I would do what they ask.

I am a big Kershaw fan myself. Looking at the drawer with my Tyrade, JYD II combo, my Blurs, and others down to my 30 year old (literally) Whiskey Gap and DWO, I have more Kershaw knives than any single brand. They have been my trusted work knife (construction) for years and have served without failure.

I was turned off to Kershaw years ago when they started the Kershaw Mafia, and so much so that I didn't join Bladeforums. It was like the playground in middle school. Each Kershaw devotee picked out a name from their favorite Godfather movie and thought they actually became that character. I guess here, away from those that "didn't get it" they were. I know it started out as fun, but it got waayyyy out of hand. It seemed that some felt like owning a few Kershaws, being voted in with a picture of your favorite character as your avatar, you had some kind of special status. Heck, you were a "made" guy! There were behind the scenes turf wars, things were said here and in PMs that kept thing agitated until it go quite nasty for some. They fought over who had more status based on posts, amount pictures and even took it to mods, then it filtered up to Spark. That is why Spark shut them down the group entirely archived the group posts.

After a couple of years (give or take) Spark worked out something with Thomas to bring it back. And now that the subforums is doing well again, you guys feel the need to establish a more elitist group, one more time, to proclaim your loyalty and devotion to Kai. Simple high post counts and endless pictures gushing over the product isn't enough. You need a super group that all can recognize as the most serious of people when it comes to Kai. Drive away the casual users ("we do like him, but he only has 4 Kershaws, and a low post count.... that's worse than low T") and folks that are just now learning about Kershaws.

If you read what we ask its is easy to achieve. This is for fun, to add some depth, for our enjoyment.

Multiple moderators know about this, and we asked for permission. Did we ask spark directly? No, he has granted others authority to answer our questions and they said it was ok. I am sure they will be watching to make sure things work out smoothly.

What ever happened in the past is in the past. We are a different group of people, we are doing a different sort of thing. Let us be judged by our own actions.

Boy does this seem familiar. I have to ask though, why don't you guys start your own website/forum? Even the guys that make my favorite barbecue pit have one. Even though they got tired of their own limited company soon enough, it is still quite popular. That way you could enforce all rules you wanted, run it your way, exclude\include anyone you wanted and decide where you wanted to go with the forum without permission. Why do you need to have a sub/sub group that delineates you from a regular user?

More importantly, have you contacted Spark to make sure he is ready to do this all over again with the Kershaw guys?

Robert

 

[BobSig]

The point system adds a lot more options to be allowed in. Where the other systems has 3 categories. There is no perfect choice and not every one will be happy.

Once the initial points are met to get in, you are in. You can keep track of points if you want, but there isnt a benefit to it besides fun.

I like the point system, I voted for the low requirements because Im a new forum member and based on posts wouldnt be allowed in the group yet, based on points though.....well, I'd have alot of points

I just realized - I hit 100 posts!!! (almost all in the kershaw forum

Congrats!

 

[midnight flyer]

First of all , since I first read this post, I have sat here for quite some time pondering the content, re reading and pondering some more. Here is what I have taken from it, first information about the Kershaw mafia and the reasons for closing the original sub-forum, I believe are not accurate. I was alive during that time and I don't recall any issues caused by the Mafia, it was for fun and still is. I however did not spend any time outside the sub forum, so if a couple of people were doing as stated, maybe I did not know about it.

First, I want to say that while I read a lot, by BF standards I post little. I have the utmost respect for you and honestly have never read anything but posts having the highest regard for you personally and especially your business ethics. Your integrity and ethics as a sincere vendor are known well outside this forum.

My post was an overview of where this could go, especially when you are looking at having membership based on popularity, and the ability to simply buy your way in by having XX number of the herd mentality's accepted knife. Why not just say... hey, if you can't afford the country club dues, don't even knock. Yes, you can drive by and we will tolerate you, but don't think about joining us until you can. Then of course, like any old many country club, those with the most knives and members the longest will enjoy the highest status.

My experience with Kershaw is quite different than many here. I started buying them for two reasons. First, they were affordable and sturdy. In construction, the first ones were used hard all day long. Some were better than others, but they were all good values. Second, damn... some are really sturdy. Hard working designs that will stand actual hard work in the field. They replaced BUCK and CASE as my hard work knives, which is saying more than I can explain. And as with everyone that I have gifted a Kershaw or put towards the brand, they are equally impressed. With 30 years of carrying and using Kershaw brands, they are an excellent working man's knife.

But if you become a huge fan of the brand and you buy a couple more but can't afford a $250 ZT or two (you might have lost your job somewhere, have kids, sick familiy members, etc.), maybe you can't play in the area with the more well to do kids. You certainly couldn't do it unless you were approved by the proper people under the proper guidelines (as described by them). Sure, upgrading to a Gold membership could offset a couple of detracting points and could be bought in an few minutes so that could help get you to the back room.

I may live in fairyland, but I always like the philosophy that seems to guide Kershaw design and implementation. Good designs (some great) and a fair price, and hard working everyday knives for everyone. They have a knife that fits everybody's budget, no matter how poor you are, and they are nice blades, too. I saw the snort of disgust about the Crown models earlier, but I gave four as gifts last year and those guys love them.

I also have had conversations with Thomas about that closing and I truly don't remember ever hearing anything about the Mafia. If Spark had of shut down the forum because of the mafia, would he not have asked us to remove any reference to it from our sigs ? Also would he allow his moderators to still use said signatures. Anyway I always took it as a fun thing and do not recall one negative thing happening as a result of it.

I had different posting with two different mods (remember when they were not sub forum specific?) and they weren't detailed in their explanation, but it was the behind the scenes, as well as some of the upfront business from a few that wouldn't back down that got the subforum closed. It was such a hot topic of finger pointing that they removed some of the threads and even now in searching the archives one that is left is closed to the public.

No matter, that was then and this is now. I don't recall the Mafia being part of the problem, but rest assured, many took it a lot more seriously than you did/do. You're just that kind of guy.

That aside I spent some time considering the other things he said concerning elitism and excluding people and I have to say I agree. I think it should be a come one come all group. I would just ask that you read the post objectively and consider it thoughtfully.

That was the philosophy (I thought) when the sub forum was opened back up. I did reread a few of the posts that have come after mine, and even some that were there before. They seem to want to add more exclusionary points to the requirements than to embrace fellow Kershaw fans into the fold.

As always, life is about choices. And as the mod for the group pointed out, no on has to participate in the new group. In reality, not in the new gold star club or even on the subforum. Things will go where they will and people will make their own choices. Rest assured, regardless of the direction of the subforum decision, it won't abate my Kershaw purchases a bit. As long as they keep putting out the quality product they are now, I am on board.

Robert

 

[Black samurai]

From my reading, all and all everyone has a good point. What I was saying is lets make this group a little different from this forum. My proposal was not to exclude anyone, but set standards. Yes it is true not everybody can buy multiple numbers of ZTs and it wouldn't be fair not to include them. But their are some who will just join to wear the badge, I myself join the kershawholics and will honestly admit I only joined for the badge so to say. Having standards in a group won't make the group turn their backs on those that can't meet the qualifications, only encourage and give info on what some cant have at the time. Only bad leadership will let a group go in that direction. As I stated in a older post standards don't have to be outrageous, only enough to show that you are serious about this club.

 

[jimw451]

My post was an overview of where this could go, especially when you are looking at having membership based on popularity, and the ability to simply buy your way in by having XX number of the herd mentality's accepted knife. Why not just say... hey, if you can't afford the country club dues, don't even knock.

Please don't assume where this could go as we just started. We just want a cool moniker in our sig lines that shows we're part of a group of avid collectors and appreciators, and maybe prompt others to join if they feel so inclined.

But if you become a huge fan of the brand and you buy a couple more but can't afford a $250 ZT or two (you might have lost your job somewhere, have kids, sick familiy members, etc.), maybe you can't play in the area with the more well to do kids. You certainly couldn't do it unless you were approved by the proper people under the proper guidelines (as described by them).

No one has placed a monetary minimum on any fans that I know of so far. I'll re-read if needed, but approval will simply be based on brand ownership as I cannot currently join any exclusive Emerson clubs because I don't even own one. Maybe some day in the future, but until then I really have no input into Emerson conversations about use or ownership, you know? I don't feel left out, I feel like I'll be able to join when I have some real input into their main brand focus.

They seem to want to add more exclusionary points to the requirements than to embrace fellow Kershaw fans into the fold.

Nothing in concrete yet, so please don't assume that will be the case. Literally started like 2 weeks ago. All voices will be heard before decisions are made, I'm sure.

As always, life is about choices. And as the mod for the group pointed out, no on has to participate in the new group. In reality, not in the new gold star club or even on the subforum. Things will go where they will and people will make their own choices. Rest assured, regardless of the direction of the subforum decision, it won't abate my Kershaw purchases a bit. As long as they keep putting out the quality product they are now, I am on board.

Robert

Robert, I read through your entire post and it's great that you are a long time user and Kershaw fan. That's what we're looking for. I'm sorry you feel like the group would shun a potential member or feel like part of a "gold star club" eliteist regime that sets ourselves on high. I think the current group of interested members are giving great feedback as well as yourself. All will be taken into consideration. We just want guidelines, even at a minimum, to establish a group membership mentality and sense of unity with our favorite brand. I hope you'll be a part of it too. Honestly.

 

[jhyde7585]

I like the idea about having minimum requirements to join, but I strongly caution against the points system. Stuff like that will inevitably lead to point-related pissing contests and superiority complexes. I've seen it before with post counts.

This is my worry. I know personally I won't be all that worried/concerned with it, but I'm also not a very competitive person.

We are by no means wanting to become an elitist group. Just because someone might have a higher or lower number of points does not mean they are less important or looked down upon. I personally would be on the lower end of the spectrum compared to some here! We all like kershaw, Zt and shun. Just because you own one or two does not mean you like kai any less than the next person. Even if you are not a member of this group yet when it takes off, does not mean we dislike you or think you are not good enough. There is nothing wrong with showing you like something or have something in common with fellow members. This is meant to be a fun! Please help keep it that way!

I don't believe (and certainly don't hope) that it will become this way, or that all these problems will come up. Just offering my cautious thoughts

All in all though, I don't believe the people here will be causing the problems. I think were gonna be just fine

 

[PG5768]

As one of the newer members of the alleged "Kershaw Mafia", I've hesitated to read this thread.

Personally, I think there's no reason to start a new "Group". Kershawholics already exists and is open to anyone who's a fan of Kershaw/ZT/KAI. If there's a need to start a new group, then it should be open to anyone who's a fan of Kershaw/ZT, regardless of posts in this sub-forum or knives owned.

 

[fitzpatric]

"75 Post Total etc.." Wow things have changed, in the good ol days to get into a group involved sheep and lots of spanking...

 

[bdmicarta]

No one has placed a monetary minimum

The option favored by popular vote requires ownership of one Kershaw and one ZT. Kershaw makes some very inexpensive knives but how much is the cheapest ZT? The cheapest ZT seems to be more than the average knife discussed on BF.

The option proposed by one of the mods requires ownership of at least 5 Kershaw and 3 ZT knives. This is a lot more expensive.

 

[JuJu-]

The option favored by popular vote requires ownership of one Kershaw and one ZT. Kershaw makes some very inexpensive knives but how much is the cheapest ZT? The cheapest ZT seems to be more than the average knife discussed on BF.

The option proposed by one of the mods requires ownership of at least 5 Kershaw and 3 ZT knives. This is a lot more expensive.

Where did you see this? I seen a proposal for 3 kershaws and 1 zt? And if you were talking about a point based system that's 1 point for every 5 kershaws owned and 1 point for every 3 zt's owned. The zt requirement would probably turned into 1 zt for 1 point if we decided that's what we want. Remember these are still just ideas, works in progress!

Let's face it, if you are here you probably own a couple/few kershaws at least. And you can use your knife outside of the forums as well. While we want to encourage people to support the forums in general, we are not able to make that be a requirement.

 

[BobSig]

The option favored by popular vote requires ownership of one Kershaw and one ZT. Kershaw makes some very inexpensive knives but how much is the cheapest ZT? The cheapest ZT seems to be more than the average knife discussed on BF.

The option proposed by one of the mods requires ownership of at least 5 Kershaw and 3 ZT knives. This is a lot more expensive.

When it says, 1 Kershaw / 1 ZT. The "/" means "or." Hope that helps

 

[bdmicarta]

Where did you see this?

I was copying this from post #1 of this thread and from the poll results that are right above it.


I have lots of Kershaws, in fact I have been carrying my S30V Blur this week, but between my lack of income this year and too many recent knife purchases I'm probably not going to be in a position to buy a new ZT for quite awhile.

 

[Chris Wille]

Not gonna read all this so tell me i own 24 Kershaw no ZT as of yet where do I fall in all this ?