Posting Photos - Who can and can't ?

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Hats off to all the hundreds of folks here who make this place possible by getting a knifemaker level membership.
Shame on those who use it and don't feel they should pay.


I would also point out the 98% of the full/part time makers are already following this rule, and have had a knifemaker level membership all along. It is the 2% who are the biggest photo posters often. Some have been retailers for a decade, and members here for nearly as long...and still use a free or $10 membership.

No need to name names, they know who they are, and a look at the membership level on any thread filled with photos will show them to the group.
 
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Wait a minute Stacy... first you invite us to a BBQ Camp Sword party and half way through you tell us we have to pay. If I knew I was going to have to pay before I jumped in, I would have thought more about it, and/or tried to get paid for my demo… How about paying makers to do tutorials and WIPS?

I could see this rule over on the "custom" forum, but not here.

It's not very BBQerly...
 
I look at it as a paying for anything I enjoy, like a magazine subscription etc except this is better, I can ask specific questions and get answers where no such chance with a magazine
and believe me when I say that I've spent money on far worse things.
Rules are rules I'm with Greg.

This reminds me of something I saw last week, went to a little league ball game and payed the $1.50 to see the game (a $1.50 for cryin out loud) and there was a fair amount of folks in the stand relizing that the money goes back in the program to keep it running. Past the outfield fence is the city park well sorry to say there were just as many people parking @ the city park and leaning on the outfield fence watching the game for FREE! Some of them were parents of the children playing ball and one was a local pastor. Really, are you serious I mean REALLY!

Guess who will be the first to bitch when theres no money for a little league program, and theres nothing for the kids to do except stay home and play video games?

I see this as a parallel.
 
R.Rock said:
I look at it as a paying for anything I enjoy, like a magazine subscription
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The problem with this thinking is that those who write the magazine articles you enjoy reading are getting paid for their work. You pay them for their work.

In this scenario, bf is asking for the authors to pay the magazine so they can post their articles. I don't think it's the same thing.
 
We're paying Spark to keep the forum running. We're using his bandwidth. It's not a cheap or easy process to run a forum this huge.

BFC is NOT asking anyone to pay them to post articles, jokes, stories, personal anecdotes, buy from others, or whatever. They're only asking those of us that make money off it to chip in for operating costs.

If anyone can find another, firmly-established and well-respected way to reach 189,000 members, many of whom are already looking to buy custom/handmade knives (with more joining every single day), for $60 a year, with almost no extra work on my part, I'd love to hear it!
 
I think the information I get from the forums is well worth the money, if that's what it costs to keep it up- though there are many other forums full of knowledge that don't require membership.
The other side of it is, if someone is collecting several hundred times $60, where is the money going?

I'm perfectly ok with the answer, "It's a moneymaking operation for so-and-so," we all need to make a buck.

Andy G.

Edit: Terrio's post above answered my question while I was writing, Thanks!
 
jawilder said:
The problem with this thinking is that those who write the magazine articles you enjoy reading are getting paid for their work. You pay them for their work.

In this scenario, bf is asking for the authors to pay the magazine so they can post their articles. I don't think it's the same thing.
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I guess it's how you look at it, I certainly get more out of it than what I put in, but that is my personal experience. I know for others it's much more of a place to teach, I'm sure even the teachers can still learn a thing or two from time to time.
 
I don't sell knives or work here, nor do I post pictures of my work.
I hope I do provide valuable information when I post, and I do learn things here. But I don't consider myself a freeloader. This policy will drive users away IMO. Why not make the whole site private-posting anything only available to paying members? I certainly understand making a profit on this forum, but these absolute restrictions make me feel unwelcome. I contribute to many sites, and use some to make a profit. I even have run several forums (still do.) If I wanted to promote/sell my wares and services, buying a membership might be well worth it.
 
james terrio said:
Thank you for the clarification.

On a related note, a fellow forumite recently emailed me (and others, I think) asking if I thought it was pretentious of him to get a knifemakers' membership, since he hadn't made many knives and didn't want to disrespect the more experienced makers... but he did want to be able to take orders and/or sell his work to cover costs. My answer was heck no! Go for it! You're supporting the forum that helps us all learn. I believe that's the general intent.

As you've all said, the membership is a very good investment. I get more orders through the forum than I do through my website, and the forum costs me much less. And the networking and educational value is nearly priceless. :thumbup:
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I recently started a thread asking what delineates a knifemaker in order to see my place in the community, as often I get the feeling that new makers buying a knifemaker membership has been looked down upon. I was also previously unaware that only knifemaker/service providers could post pics of what they make. However I chose to go platinum in order to further support the site, without stepping on toes of qualified knifemakers. I have sold 2 knives and have another on order once it gets back from ht- as a favor to a friend whose sister asked for one of my knives for her birthday.

I feel asking for knifemaker status is not warranted in many cases, but understand it. I would be in favor of needing at least a basic paying membership to post knives if you are a new maker/slow/hobbyist only, and needing a knifemaker status if you buy a table at a knife show, or once you have a website set up, or once you have a backlog of orders (any one of these choices needed to qualify). That way new makers asking for help would show some support for the site - and more if they choose to go gold or platinum but aren't comfortable calling themselves knifemakers- and established makers that would reap the benefits of the site would be held a bit more accountable, now that the rule is brought to my attention. Perhaps a hobbyist membership for those wishing to support BF a bit more, yet not wanting to call themselves makers or are not able to comfortably buy the more expensive membership as they do not really make any profit from their hobby (my next sale to my friend will cover the ht on the other knives I do not plan on selling, but don't find it makes sense sending a single knife away)? Just a thought, but I will watch to see how things are decided, and do appologize for not understanding the rules better.

I understand both sides of the issue and hope an amicable solution is reached, without seeming heavy handed as it seemed to be when WSS was split into 2 forums and IMO took away from the overall feel of the posts within.

Respectfully
Kris
 
I may be wrong...but this rule has been in place all along. Anyone that was doing something wrong has been contacted. Anyone that was not should continue with the regularly scheduled program.
 
Bill, you're no freeloader. We appreciate the knowledge you frequently and freely share. I'm dead certain the mods aren't trying to make you feel unwelcome.

Kris, this isn't a Guild or professional association like KMG or the ABS. It's been said time and again here, if you make a knife, you're a knifemaker. With knifemaker and platinum memberships, you can change your title to whatever you feel is appropriate - hobbyist, bestest ever, King of Knife Mountain, whatever you want. For quite a while mine was simply "sparkmaker."

I find it odd and somewhat amusing that the folks who never intend to sell more than a few knives a year are among the most open to paying for their membership, and are almost sheepish about asking for the privilege of doing so.
 
Stacy, I resent your words and attitude, but you have a right to your opinion. This board just doesn't have enough to offer me for a $60.00 fee. I have more work than I can handle as it is. I don't need to drum up more by posting photos on this board. I posted photos of my work because I thought they may be interesting to some, and in my experience here, it was just some. Most successful forums run off of direct advertising. If this one can't, I would have to think there is larger problem than 2% of the members not paying to post their work. It rarely happens, but this time I would agree with Tai. If this board is going to charge for what is commonly free elsewhere, and if the info available here is so great, it should pay for said info. You have your opinion, and that is mine.
 
I've actually seen it worse on other forums- I think the current $60/yr. is very reasonable for the added abilities. And I'm definitely not affluent. I understand that great sites will sometimes retreat behind a "paywall" and that can be a shame, but in this case I think that would be an exaggeration and it's hardly yet cost prohibitive.

Bladeforums is IMO the best knife forums on the net, and one of the main reasons I think so is that the management and mods seem very reasonable. Minimal elitism, and a comfortable atmosphere. You can't take that for granted, and I for one am happy to contribute.

I don't think it's quite as black and white as some of the indignation may imply, either. It's good that application of the rules is upon the discretion of the mods. Obviously someone like Bill DeShivs isn't trying to market his work in an underhanded fashion, by posting a helpful pic of his own work in Shoptalk from time to time. A system of rules with an ultimately human judgement seems about as good as we're able to do in any area of society.
 
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thegeek574 said:
I personally don't support the rule, because I feel more and more like the site is almost going behind a paywall...
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As it should probably do for most of the sub-forums. "General" and a few others are about all I see as remaining "open" to all(registered users). The majority of us are paying membership fees for a site that provides us a venue to sell and an inexhaustible resource of knowledge. Some makers have invested tens(even hundreds) of thousands of dollars into their craft only to turn around and generously share it with us.... and it is all available for the price of a basic membership. Less than buying Blade Mag at the news stand for a year.
 
Take the number of paying and guest members on this site, divide that into 60 and see what the dividend is. I am both a knife maker and a service provider; Blade Forums is a huge market for both purchasing items and selling your wares, its also a great place to talk with friends. Whats the gripe?
 
I see your point. I just have seen several companies and events that I really enjoy become something that I can't count on because they are always charging money for stuff. I don't have a problem with people charging money for things, but I just don't have the budget to pay for it most of the time. 60 dollars a year is a lot of supplies like files, sandpaper and steel that I am not getting, or a lot of propane I am not burning. it might be the difference between me doing or not doing a fun project just for me. I understand the value, but do we really want the forum to become a place that the few who decided it was worth it to pay come and discuss, or a place where everyone can come and talk without paying up front? General doesn't count, BTW. I check it once a week and just don't bother with it other than that. too congested with the same post over and over....

TL;DR: I personally can't afford this, and see it eventually driving people away if this trend continues.
 
I hate to see the whole thing become about money and self promotion... it spoils the sense of community, fellowship and sharing in a lot of ways.
 
I have been a member of this forum for about 8 years and at one time was a paid member for a while. I have learned a lot and for that I am grateful.
Haven't posted many pics in the last few years for a number of reasons: 1- Not doing anything new, just making the stuff I enjoy. 2-In the entire time I have been a member, I have only sold 3 knives as a result of posting a pic here, and that was a while back when I was a paying member.
I like to think that I have given some info that my have been of use to others, maybe not. To those that say "if you can't afford a $60 paid membership, you can't afford to make knives" I guess I'll have to quit making them.
Retired and only S.S. for an income makes things a bit tight, besides I make enough blacksmithing to pay for materials that will also cover my meager output of knives and still be able to teach a few students for free.
A few of the members of this forum know me personally and that I share my knowledge and teach when asked without asking anything in return.
In order that I not be known as a freeloader, I therefore formally request that my "free" membership be terminated and if I find that some time in the future I can afford to pay, maybe I will join again.
Gentlemen, this is not a rant and is not meant to affect in any way what others may think. It's a personal thing for me.
Sincerely,
Mike Broach
 
thegeek574 said:
TL;DR: I personally can't afford this, and see it eventually driving people away if this trend continues.
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These rules have been in place from the start, nothing new. People pay to sell and advertise on this site. They pay next to nothing for an excellent venue. The discussions have always been free. You can post pictures. We only ask that you do not post images of your knives if you are a knifemaker without a subscription.... just like it said in the agreement, when you joined as a registered user or basic member. I don't understand how folks are offended or in the dark on this. If you are getting paid for your knives, pay for a proper membership or don't post finished pics of your knives. I'm willing to bet most of these other "relaxed forums" have the same rules in place... they just aren't enforcing them..... yet.
 
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