Practicality of FMA systems

Discussion in 'Filipino Combat Arts Forum' started by kukri2, Jul 28, 2007.

  1. Matador


    Jul 16, 2006
    Doing lock-and-block with Angel Cabales personally was quite the oppposite. Getting hit by him within the flow was very much alive and was a not so gentle reminder on how flawed your technique was.

  2. Joe Talmadge

    Joe Talmadge

    Oct 3, 1998
    I imagine things were much different with Angel! You're lucky to have gotten to train with him. I see you're in Stockton, so you have your choice of great instructors.
  3. amok_hodges


    May 23, 2004
    Or maybe it was that Angel was being "alive" while you were stuck in the flow. Just a thought.Randy
  4. Matador


    Jul 16, 2006
    Yup, and that too! The great part of the lesson was that he wasn't beating on you, you were beating yourself. Lesson learned. :)

  5. EdgeLurker


    Aug 28, 2006
    Excellent thought!:)
    Pretty good discussions here.
  6. Pahtoocara


    Feb 9, 2006
    Not saying this is what what was happening to Matador, but that is a good point.

    I think that is where the problem lies with some FMA practitioners. Maybe, they don't know how to break the movements down or don't want to leave thier comfort zone. They are "stuck in the flow" as you say.

    For instance, Karl Tanswell's STAB promo video (you can find it online) he tries to say hubud is useless. Funny thing, the technique he advocates to defend against the knife... you can find the exact same thing in the FMA drills if you can get "unstuck" from the flow.
  7. Joe Talmadge

    Joe Talmadge

    Oct 3, 1998
    When you say "unstuck from the flow", do you mean breaking out of the pattern, or do you also mean breaking out of the rhythm?
  8. Pahtoocara


    Feb 9, 2006
    Drills are "just drills" if you stay in the confines of a drill. They have practical applications if you can break them down to the core movements.

    For instance, limiting the discussion to hubud. Many look at the drill and say, "well that's not the way you really fight." I agree. No one stands there, toe to toe and exchanges back and forth like a hubud drill. The point is not in the drill, it's in the movements/principles/concepts within the drill.

    I think it was Marc MacYoung who said something like: too many people are training to keep the drill going rather than training to end the fight. I agree.

    By no means an expert, this is just my educated opinion. :)
  9. Matador


    Jul 16, 2006

    If Angel saw complacency during any of the drills, he would "Zansibar", he would simply turn out the lights in the midst of the flow and turn it into a free for all! If you still didn't get what he was conveying, at closing time it was "monkey line" time. Him against the class!

  10. Pahtoocara


    Feb 9, 2006
    So, I guess what I am trying to say is, break out of both the pattern and the rhythm. Sorry for the long-windedness.

    Matador, that is cool that he would still mix it up with you like that. I'm sad I never got to train with him.
  11. Matador


    Jul 16, 2006


    Lock and Block, in pitch darkness, that was too cool indeed!

  12. astig


    Jun 15, 2006
    Hello all! I am the guy in the Lameco youtube sparring video that was shared in this thread by Hetman (thank you for your kind words by the way my brother).

    I started my serious training in FMA around 1990 directly under the late PG Sulite, founder of Lameco Eskrima. I like his approach to the art – combat mentality with emphasis on efficiency, non-telegraphic movement, speed, timing, accuracy, intensity, footwork, ah… all the good things! But most of all, to be open minded - which is what Lameco is all about.

    I was part of the original group, now called S.O.G. or Sulite Original Group. This was his inner circle more popularly known as the “backyard group.” We did a lot of sparring in the old days – all sorts! Using padded sticks, live sticks, single, double, 1 vs. 2, knife fighting, empty hands vs. stck, etc… we had a lot of fun and a lot of camaraderie.

    What you saw is only a sample of one of the sparring variations we do in my group training “Astig Lameco.” We usually video tape sparring sessions so that we can review them together and learn from our mistakes.

    I believe that every style has something to offer if we try to see the merits of its effectiveness. I have much to learn from FMA myself, my brothers. I appreciate the comments & feedback of the footage. Maybe there are some more? Good or bad, I’ll take it… that’s one way to learn.

    Your kapatid (brother),
  13. Hetman


    May 22, 2006
    See, that is exactly white I like about your approach kuya, insted of doing the for mevaluation by filming drills, abecedarios...and saying "Oh your elbow needs to be more backwards, and your fron foot another 6.5% inward..." you guys go for function! I was always about self-criticism myself, hence liking to take some footage of my training sessions periodically, to see what I am doing right, and especially what I'm doing rong, and yes, it especially shines in sparring :eek: Still, that's what keeps me really motivated.

    BTW, thank you kapatid for trying your best to share the knowledge and expertise you have with me!

    Maraming salamat!
  14. RenegadeMonk


    Jul 28, 2005
    Hey Guro Roger! I read about you and your training philosophies in Rey Galang's "Master of the Blade". I really like your approach to FMA. Hopefully if I get the chance to go to California I'll be able to train under you. :)

    God Bless,
  15. Kaliandk9s


    Jun 24, 2005
    I love this thread. Its a question you hear all the time involving the FMA "will this work?" My training has been under Guro Crafty, and Guro Guy Chase. Now with that little bit out of the way.

    I've fought in more than a couple of gatherings and the difference in the material taught in the DBMA and what happens in a fight is simply learning to adjust for your opponents reactions. The footwork is all there and the technique is all there, but in the speed and intensity of the fights it doesn't look it. If you slow it down you can see just how much of the training drills come out in a gathering fight.

    The question of head hear and such comes up often to. I think that if you can't respect what just hit you in the head wearing a fencing mask you are denser than most. I've been knocked out from a power shot, and my head split open from a punyo all while wearing a mask. hand protection is the one thing that ive been going really light on. Nothing teaches you to keep your movement live, like being hit in the hand while wearing soccor goalie gloves

    All the two partner drills are used to develop sensitivity, timing, and the abilty to read body mechanics. You can take the villabrille system and look at the higher level guys, they have no set pattern and watching them blaze around one an other with full speed and no one get hurt(they are usually using hard wood).

    I have worked alot of security at some of the most dangerous bars in boston, and I will say that on more than one night the enviromental and tactical awareness that is instilled by training FMA has brought me home unscathed from some pretty dangerous nights.

    Greg Brown
  16. kukri2


    Jul 28, 2007
    Well said, sir. I don't know if you read the post that launched this, but this kind of answer to that question, in addition to the very insightful comments made already, are what I was looking for.

  17. Yoshi

    Yoshi Banned BANNED

    Oct 31, 2004
    Once you where protection your into sport realm.

    What I found in the Philippines is that when they do fight fight each other, it seems all the drills etc. go out the window.
  18. astig


    Jun 15, 2006
    All the more reason that our approach to training should be pragmatic/functional. If the drills we use in our training won't work in real time, maybe that's an indication of a bad one? Where's the window.. :)

    Hello Mike! Train under me? How about working out together? That way, it's a win-win!

    your kapatid,
  19. AF1


    Apr 4, 2005
    You're not supposed to use drills when you fight. ;)

    The idea is that you use the attributes that you have developed in drills (increased speed, increased endurance, strikes and blocks ingrained into muscle memory) to fight.
  20. Yoshi

    Yoshi Banned BANNED

    Oct 31, 2004
    I know what drills are for, however they don't duel, they just walk up and stab or shoot you. It seems that technique goes out the window, and they don't appear to operate any differentley to your ordinary street guy armed with a knife, or gun.

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