Practicality of FMA systems

Discussion in 'Filipino Combat Arts Forum' started by kukri2, Jul 28, 2007.

  1. Kaliandk9s

    Kaliandk9s

    78
    Jun 24, 2005
    I agree that as soon as you start taking out protective equpitment you start playing in the realm of sport. But there is no way you can train a full power backhand horizonal with no gear without the possibility of killing your training partner. There is the idea that protective equpitment is training equpitment. If you can practice fighting at just about 100% working in a full adreanal state then you are instilling your training into you reactions. When that happens your training becomes your fighting. This is one way of looking at it. You can use the same ideas when talking about MMA training you get in the ring with head gear, bigger than normal MMA gloves on and working just about at 100%. What happens when you get in the ring? 99.9% the same thing that happened in the gym. You deal with slightly more energy and someone you usually dont train with, but its not that different from the gym work.


    it seems that your talking more about the issue of tactical/enviromental awareness. If someone looks out of place or is displaying signs of predatory behavior than you should be looking at loading your counter attack well before he has initiated contact. If you do this then YOU are the one ahead on the reactionary gap. Now thats just a concept of practicing advanced street smarts. Not to mention the fact that the knife is a weapon of ambush and when you have percived the threat before it has happened it isnt an ambush. Things happen at such a breakneck adrenal charged rate in a street fight that unless you slow it down you cant really see the technique in action. By training with weapons you have effectivly added one of the biggest advantages you can possibly have in a real life situation. Weapons awareness. Just by having at least a little fimialiarty with the idea of weapons being in play you give yourself a HUGE advantage. And I dont have to tell anyone that any advantage in a fight is huge. I have been involved in some hairy situations at work and having seen knives and other improvised weapons in action on the street and i will have to say that just having weapons awareness is why I haven't been hit with belt buckle, beer bottle, or stabbed.


    and as far as it not working the way the drills work thats just an issue of figuring out how the drills translate into real world app. One of my students is an E6 with the USMC and going door to door in bagdad one of those supposedly irrelivant training drills saved his life. So when we talk about drills having no purpose thats not really true. Do you need to do the drills with a different mindset, absolutly. And will all of them work real world like they do in class, absolutly not. Its a fight after all and nothing, nothing is set in stone and works as the best laid plans in a fight. Most drills work using the idea of known threats, and when the threat is not known or come into play during the confrontation the drills are there to assist you to dramatically shorten your reactionary gap. And get you back into some sort of control of the situation.

    But on the topic of guns, that is a whole other arena. Guns are guns, and as bruce lee said (now i probibly dont have this 100% correct) but "you are not as fast as a bullet". Guns bring into play a whole different set of ideas than your typical training goes.
     
  2. Pahtoocara

    Pahtoocara

    Feb 9, 2006
    When police/military train using FIST, Redman, or High Gear suits do people say they are training for sport?

    That would also mean Simunitions are sport oriented. Do police/military have to use real guns and engage in real gunfights to get realistic training?

    When learning knife defenses, you have to use live blades all the time. Otherwise you are practicing for sport?

    A whole slew of different combat sports would become useless if this notion were true. Wrestling, boxing/Thai boxing, Judo/Jujitsu, football, even so-called Reality Based training... all useless for the real world?

    The idea that using any measure of protective gear negates real world value is FALSE. It's the judicious use of protective equipment that makes realistic training possible.
     
  3. Kaliandk9s

    Kaliandk9s

    78
    Jun 24, 2005

    great way of looking at it, I dont think i was clear enough in the way i wrote that first paragraph, i agree with you 100%. Sorry if there was any clarity issues on where i stood on the topic of protective gear
     
  4. Pahtoocara

    Pahtoocara

    Feb 9, 2006
    KaliandK9s -- my comments were absolutely not aimed only for you. I just think we have to be realistic here.

    Even though sometimes I like to act like I do...

    I'm man enough to admit I don't train bare-knuckle-full-contact-no-holds-barred everyday! :D
     
  5. astig

    astig

    8
    Jun 15, 2006
    my gosh... i love this group!!! like i said, i'm still a student and have much to learn!
    thank for the different point of views. they all have something to contribute towards our training.

    roger
     
  6. Kaliandk9s

    Kaliandk9s

    78
    Jun 24, 2005
    No i understand that that wasn't directed completly at me. It made me re read my post and i saw that it was a little unclear where i stood on the subject. I take no offense. You just added right onto what i was hoping to get across.
     
  7. Kaliandk9s

    Kaliandk9s

    78
    Jun 24, 2005

    We are all students. The only man who thinks there is nothing left to learn is a fool. Im glad to see one of PG Edgar's guys posting on here. I don't think i have to tell you how much of an impact he had on Guro Crafty and therefor the dogbrothers martial arts. I actually was watching some old footage from Lameco at the vortex last week. i had forgotten just how amazing PG was.

    Greg
     
  8. V-1

    V-1

    Apr 14, 1999
    Or you could walk around with the assistance of a cane and look quite fashionable...and prepared. :D
     
  9. untamed

    untamed

    Jan 7, 2003
    Just my simple take on this: we always begin with the flows/drills/cooperative partner training. Its the foundation. Sometime later, if the neceassary "attributes" and core skills have already gotten drilled in, then we progress to the wonderful ALIVENESS part.
     
  10. untamed

    untamed

    Jan 7, 2003
    A spot on post! :thumbup: Which is why we don't outright slaughter each other during training.
     
  11. astig

    astig

    8
    Jun 15, 2006
    Originally Posted by Pahtoocara
    The idea that using any measure of protective gear negates real world value is FALSE. It's the judicious use of protective equipment that makes realistic training possible.

    Love that quote... simple, honest and direct :thumbup: :thumbup:. Thanks for reposting untamed!

    Roger
     
  12. Pahtoocara

    Pahtoocara

    Feb 9, 2006
    Golly, guys! You make me feel so smart! :D

    Please, I would like to here more about this.
     
  13. m_calingo

    m_calingo

    Oct 13, 2003
    Second that. Let's hear more about this.
     
  14. Kaliandk9s

    Kaliandk9s

    78
    Jun 24, 2005
    While going door to door in a densely populated area looking for a known insurgent E6 and his unit where knocking on and in doors. they came to a door and E6 was first in the room after the ram smashed the door in, muzzle of his m4 up and ready. Having knocked before breaking the door in, the bad guys had some warning. As he entered the room tango 1 grabed the muzzle of his weapon and yanked while tango 2 tried to stab him in the neck with a downward ice pick grip stab. E6 let go of rifle blocked stab with his left forarm and drew his own blade from his vest and using an icepick stab of his own ended tango2's existance. A burst from another marines M4 ended tango 1s day.

    It was a classic icepick lock and flow drill. granted the weapons access part was something that we had added over the few months prior to his redeployment. But it was that idea of staying there and putting forarm to forarm to stop the motion of the knife and then rotating your arm counterclockwise to lock out the ice pick motion that
    was developed from a training partner drill that saved him.

    I trust the man who relayed this to me, besides being one of my best students, he is also a close close friend. He recently returned to the US intime for his discharge from the marines after 10 years of service. He brought home with him a pair of purple hearts, a bronze star, and a small piece of IED scrapnel that was removed about two weeks ago. A real hero. And my friend.

    Greg
     
  15. Pahtoocara

    Pahtoocara

    Feb 9, 2006
    Thanks for sharing. Glad it saved your friend's life.

    This stuff does work. I know it, you know it, many others know it. Practical application of the drill is paramount.
     
  16. AF1

    AF1

    274
    Apr 4, 2005
    Great story, Kaliandk9s.
     
  17. white cloud

    white cloud

    48
    Feb 6, 2006
    i think some martial forms and drills are quite useful and others not so useful.

    i practiced tang soo do for 10 years. i consider that art's forms to be of very limited value since most instructors do not understand what the forms are supposed to teach.

    i now practice wing chun. the forms and drills here are great tools to burn in body mechanics and techniques. a major reason for this training value is having a sifu who really understands what is in the form and having training partners who amp things up once i have the mechanics of the techique working.
     
  18. kukri2

    kukri2

    109
    Jul 28, 2007
    Nice. I was thinking of WC or VT too. I live in San Antonio. There is a VT school run by Sifu William Parker and maybe one or two other places?

    Any recommendation for lineage? I know the Leung Ting lineage is more standardized.

    The large concern for me is practice. You have to make contact and be under fire to be able to execute. While some WC schools use contact, my perception is that several do not.

    Do you have any thoughts? Oh, and the work around I am thinking of is to find a partner or group, put on pads and mix it up, preferably with mixed styles. Hello, boxers?
     

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