Pricing questions...

aarongough

aarongough

Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
1,167
Hey guys!
I want to get some feedback from other knifemakers for the ballpark cost of a 4" camping/hunting knife. I'm curious about how my current pricing compares, mainly because I had someone today accused me of inflating my prices.

For the sake of discussion the knife we're estimating price for would have specs roughly like so:

  • 4" blade
  • 9" overall
  • G10/Micarta handles with contrasting liners
  • Steel of the maker's choice
  • Kydex sheath
  • Designed for hard use, nothing too ornate

I think my prices are reasonable given the amount of work that goes in and my overheads. I'm curious to hear what others are charging for something similar though... My 4" Resolute model is $300 for reference.

Bonus question: How do you guys normally deal with people being aggressive about pricing?
 
It's a tough thing. I think that $300 is a reasonable range for a high end user from a quality maker.

I'm trying my best to stay in the $200 range, solely to keep things affordable for users, but as I step up my fit and finish, I realize that the extra time it takes makes that less possible. Plus I'm trying not to undersell to keep the customers with lower budget happy, because while nice for the customer, it hurts myself and fellow makers as well.
 
HallHandmade said:
It's a tough thing. I think that $300 is a reasonable range for a high end user from a quality maker.

I'm trying my best to stay in the $200 range, solely to keep things affordable for users, but as I step up my fit and finish, I realize that the extra time it takes makes that less possible. Plus I'm trying not to undersell to keep the customers with lower budget happy, because while nice for the customer, it hurts myself and fellow makers as well.
Click to expand...

You've summed up my thoughts pretty well there. I'd like to be able to sell them for $50, just so everyone that wanted one you could get one... But that's not possible because of my costs. Right now every knife I've sold has been done essentially as 'free labour' because they've all taken so much longer than anticipated. Only now am I finally getting down to a reasonable amount of time per knife, and it's still hovering at ~10 hours per knife...
 
Aaron, I had similar thoughts regarding your pricing when i saw it earlier this week.
I think your fit, finish are there but considering the materials used and the style of the knife I dont think things add up.

Bear in mind, I myself have been told I under price on a regular basis. lol
 
I literally just responded to a request for pictures of what a customer could get for 30 dollars. I was polite and explained costs, but kind of felt like just sending back a picture of a 8 inch cut off of 1084 and a set of micarta handle slabs.
 
A similar knife from me in O1 I'd ask $150. A similar knife in Alabama Damascus would be $300.
With that in mind I do not think you're over priced; you've got me thinking I need to raise my price.
I've got one knife dealer and myself and he tells hagglers any other knife on the table he can deal on; but the maker (me) sets his price and he does not budge.
I think he's still got 3 knives of mine out of over 100; so it seems to be working OK.

Bonus question: I say "I will tell you what, I will sell it to you for that if you are willing to go into work Monday and tell your boss you want to work for 10% less today."
They generally don't buy; but they do generally get the hell out of my face and I'm good with that.

I think your prices are reasonable.
 
In my opinion, if someone thinks you are outrageous on your pricing offer them 3 solutions...

1. They pay your price and leave happily with a quality piece.

2. They pay 10x the price buying tools and spend years learning to make a knife that even resembles what you are selling.

3. Tell them to go buy their Bear Grylls crap knife from Wal-Mart and go hang out with the rest of the mall ninjas.

In the end if you are selling knives at a rate you are happy with, your pricing is where it needs to be. If not, your price could be adjusted.

Chris
 
FTO_dude said:
Aaron, I had similar thoughts regarding your pricing when i saw it earlier this week.
I think your fit, finish are there but considering the materials used and the style of the knife I dont think things add up.

Bear in mind, I myself have been told I under price on a regular basis. lol
Click to expand...

Thanks for the honest response, it's appreciated.

What ballpark would you normally look at for a similar knife?
 
Grayzer86 said:
I literally just responded to a request for pictures of what a customer could get for 30 dollars. I was polite and explained costs, but kind of felt like just sending back a picture of a 8 inch cut off of 1084 and a set of micarta handle slabs.
Click to expand...

Ouch, $30? An interesting request...

TASelf said:
A similar knife from me in O1 I'd ask $150. A similar knife in Alabama Damascus would be $300.
With that in mind I do not think you're over priced; you've got me thinking I need to raise my price.
I've got one knife dealer and myself and he tells hagglers any other knife on the table he can deal on; but the maker (me) sets his price and he does not budge.
I think he's still got 3 knives of mine out of over 100; so it seems to be working OK.

Bonus question: I say "I will tell you what, I will sell it to you for that if you are willing to go into work Monday and tell your boss you want to work for 10% less today."
They generally don't buy; but they do generally get the hell out of my face and I'm good with that.

I think your prices are reasonable.
Click to expand...

Thanks mate, sounds like you have your system worked out!

Salolan said:
In my opinion, if someone thinks you are outrageous on your pricing offer them 3 solutions...

1. They pay your price and leave happily with a quality piece.

2. They pay 10x the price buying tools and spend years learning to make a knife that even resembles what you are selling.

3. Tell them to go buy their Bear Grylls crap knife from Wal-Mart and go hang out with the rest of the mall ninjas.

In the end if you are selling knives at a rate you are happy with, your pricing is where it needs to be. If not, your price could be adjusted.

Chris
Click to expand...

That sounds overall like a fairly sensible approach I think (though I may have to be a bit more polite on point #3 :D). I have plenty of other people who've told me they're happy with my prices, and an order list full of people who have put their money where their mouths are (in theory at least given I don't require deposits).

The whole thing just shook me a bit as the gentleman was very persistent and aggressive with his message...

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get my prices down. But the only sustainable way I see to do that is to mass-produce them, which kind of changes the nature of the beast anyway.
 
I believe you are over priced. I'm judging by the knives for sale in this web site. Your knife certainly looks very well made but there isn't a metal guard that would the bring the price to the $300. Just my estimate, and has been said if the buyers will pay that price then that should be the selling price. Frank
 
For me, that knife would sell for about $240. That's pretty much the low end of my pricing. However, my overhead may be lower than yours- my shop and house together cost me $500 a month rent.
If I made that knife with nice wood and a guard or bolsters, it would sell for $300-ish.
But, if you can sell that knife for the price you want for it without an unreasonable amount of wait for the sale, I say more power to you. It's been noted more than once recently that pricing seems like a race to the bottom with a lot of knife makers. I think what some folks charge for a piece of "art" that took them an hour or less to paint/whatever can be just outrageous. We sell our work, more often than not, as luxury goods to people that are much more wealthy than we are. I know I can't afford my own knives, to paraphrase R. Loveless.

My experience has always been that people will bitch about your prices here and there. That's fine, those folks just aren't in the market for your work. There is plenty of lower priced stuff for them to buy, right here on BF.

In addition, I just recalled a recent conversation with a local customer- he wanted an 8" damascus chef knife by xmas. When I quoted him the price, at first he was taken aback and decided to go with mono steel. After I had amiably painted him a picture of forge time and propane costs for damascus, and related that I end up making about $15/hr. at the price quoted, he ultimately changed his mind again and said "well... let's make it damascus after all."

That usually works for me.
 
Frank Niro said:
I believe you are over priced. I'm judging by the knives for sale in this web site. Your knife certainly looks very well made but there isn't a metal guard that would the bring the price to the $300. Just my estimate, and has been said if the buyers will pay that price then that should be the selling price. Frank
Click to expand...

I spent some time perusing the 'for sale' section this evening as well, and I can see that I'm at the high end for the type of knife I'm selling.

Salem Straub said:
For me, that knife would sell for about $240. That's pretty much the low end of my pricing. However, my overhead may be lower than yours- my shop and house together cost me $500 a month rent.
If I made that knife with nice wood and a guard or bolsters, it would sell for $300-ish.
But, if you can sell that knife for the price you want for it without an unreasonable amount of wait for the sale, I say more power to you. It's been noted more than once recently that pricing seems like a race to the bottom with a lot of knife makers. I think what some folks charge for a piece of "art" that took them an hour or less to paint/whatever can be just outrageous. We sell our work, more often than not, as luxury goods to people that are much more wealthy than we are. I know I can't afford my own knives, to paraphrase R. Loveless.

My experience has always been that people will bitch about your prices here and there. That's fine, those folks just aren't in the market for your work. There is plenty of lower priced stuff for them to buy, right here on BF.

In addition, I just recalled a recent conversation with a local customer- he wanted an 8" damascus chef knife by xmas. When I quoted him the price, at first he was taken aback and decided to go with mono steel. After I had amiably painted him a picture of forge time and propane costs for damascus, and related that I end up making about $15/hr. at the price quoted, he ultimately changed his mind again and said "well... let's make it damascus after all."

That usually works for me.
Click to expand...

I wish I had your rent! My workshop by itself is $425/month and that's for a space that I share with others. I have about 60 sq ft of private space in the shop, though luckily my grinder and kiln get to live in the shared area. If I lived in an area outside of the city my overheads would probably be a third of what they are, something I have definitely been thinking about lately.

I think part of the problem may well be that knifemaking is quite a popular hobby. When something is a hobby making it self-sustaining is a secondary concern and that means pricing will probably be artificially low. This can make people like myself seem expensive in comparison.

I've had a fair few ups and downs tonight thinking about all this in the face of the strong criticism I received from this gentleman. I appreciate everyone that's taken the time to respond to my question.
 
You can set your prices wherever you'd like. If you're able to sell your knives at your asking prices, then your selling price is fine. You make a very high quality knife, so it's not like you're ripping people off. If someone has an issue, they can go ahead and buy knives from someone/someplace else.

I've seen plenty of people sell arguably "more" knife for less, and I've seen people sell "less" knife for more. Around here, where the market is fairly saturated with both buyers and makers, I think a lot of people would consider your knives expensive... but you've also made a name for yourself and tapped a market base that few other makers have with your work on places like Youtube and Reddit, so you're able to "inflate" your prices a bit. Nothing wrong with that.

Side note... my girlfriend recently showed me an article in one of her cooking magazines showcasing a lady out of Brooklyn who made cheese "knives" from files and reclaimed wood, no heat treat, which she prices at $300-500+. She seems to pop out a few a day and sells out fairly quickly. Are her prices ridiculously inflated? Sure... but she's able to sell them (likely to customers who have no idea any other knifemakers exist), so I suppose more power to her.
 
Yup Aaron, 30 bucks. He said he was looking for a custom hunting knife in the 30 to 50 dollar range and wanted to know what he could get for that price. I basically told him that I couldn't do anything inside that range other than a kiridashi or something. Hell the handle blocks of dyed buckeye and amboyna I have run at or higher than that price range.
 
weebus said:
You can set your prices wherever you'd like. If you're able to sell your knives at your asking prices, then your selling price is fine. You make a very high quality knife, so it's not like you're ripping people off. If someone has an issue, they can go ahead and buy knives from someone/someplace else.

I've seen plenty of people sell arguably "more" knife for less, and I've seen people sell "less" knife for more. Around here, where the market is fairly saturated with both buyers and makers, I think a lot of people would consider your knives expensive... but you've also made a name for yourself and tapped a market base that few other makers have with your work on places like Youtube and Reddit, so you're able to "inflate" your prices a bit. Nothing wrong with that.

Side note... my girlfriend recently showed me an article in one of her cooking magazines showcasing a lady out of Brooklyn who made cheese "knives" from files and reclaimed wood, no heat treat, which she prices at $300-500+. She seems to pop out a few a day and sells out fairly quickly. Are her prices ridiculously inflated? Sure... but she's able to sell them (likely to customers who have no idea any other knifemakers exist), so I suppose more power to her.
Click to expand...

Thanks mate. That was one of the things that got to me the most I will admit. I've put quite a lot of work into my A2, and he was ripping on me because it wasn't 'special'. That hurt after all the hours I spend breaking knives to make my A2 special! :D
 
Grayzer86 said:
Yup Aaron, 30 bucks. He said he was looking for a custom hunting knife in the 30 to 50 dollar range and wanted to know what he could get for that price. I basically told him that I couldn't do anything inside that range other than a kiridashi or something. Hell the handle blocks of dyed buckeye and amboyna I have run at or higher than that price range.
Click to expand...

Can't say I've heard a story quite like that before, I suppose it has to happen sometimes. Most people these days have no idea how much work goes into something like a knife that's made by hand... Even with modern conveniences like grinders it's not exactly 'boom, done!'...
 
Aaron, I will give you some knifemaking business and knifemaking hobby advice combined.

Overhead only applies to running a business. In a hobby, it is the cost of having fun. Few...very few....knifemakers make knives as a true business. Most like to make knives, and selling them allows them to buy more tools and materials. You can't expect the customer to support your hobby any more than you can expect your employer to give you a raise because you bought an bigger house and a luxury car. Those expenses are your responsibilities, not his.
Materials are very low on most knives. Tools are expensive. You can charge for the materials, and add supplies like belts to the cost when pricing a knife as a hobby maker, but your time and the amount of tools and overhead sadly can't be compensated fully.
Most knives have less than $10 in the steel and about $10-30 in the handle. Add a few supplies like rivets, a couple belts, and some Kydex, and the whole knife cost is probably $50-70. You should expect to get double that for selling it..... If you make a very nice knife, triple. That is all the payment you will get for your time. Profit, just like overhead, is not really an issue for the hobby maker.

As to getting paid for the time you put into a knife as a hobby maker, it ain't gonna happen. I often use the example of a sword I made. It was a nice 16" damascus wakizashi with a lacquered saya, and I priced it at $800. Someone said that was a lot of money, and I said if I only considered the time to make the sword, and gave the steel and saya to them for free, it was selling for about $3 per hour.


The knife you describe would sell for as low as $100 from some makers, and as high as $300 from a known maker with many years of experience.
I think about $200 would be the max for your level ( from what I have seen and read).

Make knives for fun and don't make a business out of them...and you will enjoy knifemaking much longer. The quickest way to end the joy for 99% of knifemakers is to make it a business.
Budget your expenses just as you would for any hobby or pastime. Buy what you can afford, and don't overspend. Consider what you get back from sales as free money, not profit, or income.
 
Very good little post, we had this same discussion yesterday at a local Hammer-in, lots of things go into making a knife(forged or stock removal), no pictures of said knife so no commit on your price but this happens all the time, just shake it off and keep trying to improve your work, each of us have our likes and dislikes about this. Most folks know nothing about the kind of equipment and the amount of hours that knifemakers or other craftsmen put into their crafts, it is our job to try to educate them about our craft/hobby. Again some good advice here, what I always ask myself, would I pay $$ for this knife?
 
You may consider having blanks waterjet cut and sending out for heat treat, I find that the cost for these two steps is less than what I want to make per hours so I can produce more blades at a lower cost but keep quality up.
 
Ask whatever you want for it, but for a stock removal knife that looks like a factory piece I wouldn't expect to sell a lot of them for over $100. I looked at your website, and yes, the grind is clean, it looks like all the parts fit together well, but it looks like it came straight out of a factory anywhere in the world. There is nothing other than your marketing claims to distinguish it from any of hundreds of knives in sporting goods stores on Main Street of any decent sized town. when you have an established name and reputation, and an order backlog you can sell for big money, but there is a lot of work before you get there. I am sure that a guy like Nick Wheeler could sell a basic knife like that for $300 as soon as he made it because he is known for making some really nice knives, for an unknown maker, not so much.

Good luck,
-Page
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top